Strange Bedfellows...Me and Yang

[D4everman]

Hi gang. I just finished a game (I planned on going out yesterday but the weather was awful!) Strangely enough I was teamed up with Yang as the gaians. (I hate Yang! He’s always a thorn in my side and hard to beat! But here’s my thoughts on the fiasco!

I may have to change my opinion about Yang. In the game I just finished he was my ally and he was actually a good one. I expected treachery, but he remained submissive throughout the game after I forced his surrender, even though if he had broken our pact near the end it would have been REALLY hard to beat him. This is the first time I turned the option for trascendence off, so one way or the other I had to fight for my victory. (By “I” I mean the gaians.) Only a few things occured to me while I was playing.

I hate Islands- By that I mean I hate starting off on islands. Its a remnant of my old Civ 2 days. when you started on an island in Civ 2 it was a disaster most of the time. Too make it worse, Santiago was on an island next to me. she threatened me at first, but then signed a treaty. I made sure I got Doctrine: Flexibility before she did and started colonizing other islands and building sea bases all around them. In retrospect, it was easier to defend myself by using islands.

Yang’s surrender- Yang of course declared vendetta on me right after meeting me. He was far enough away that I didn’t sweat it at first, but then he began landing troops at my farthest outposts. I managed to fight him off, but it was close. When Yang surrendered his power was listed as anemic, but I don’t see how. He had a fair amount of bases and Yang always has a giant army. Still, he surrendered and I accepted it. I wonder why he didn’t keep fighting? I was nowhere close to threatening his territory. (Yang controlled the monsoon jungle, which was basically an island unto itself, but didn’t build cities on it! He built sea cities around it!?)

New respect for Miriam- she’s a real b**ch, but she’s tough. I watched as Yang took one of her bases and she would take it right back. (part of Yang’s surrender was to declare vnedetta on Miriam. They were both teamed up against me before Yang gave in.) Even when I got troops over there Miriam made me pay for every inch.

Sunspots are kind of cool- Morgan, Morgan, Morgan. How can he possibly be called shrewd? If he was he would have kept his weak little only four base havin’ ass out of it. but he declared vendetta and I went right after him. I didn’t need him giving any help to Miriam. But Morgan Industries was pretty hard to beat. When the sunspots came up though I nerve gassed him. Heehee. If the AI played Morgan with any common sense he’d be dangerous, but he’s mostly an annoyance.

No Money- I had a ridiculous amount of energy credits. Then just before I was about to mind control two of Santiago’s cities with carefuly placed probe teams an energy market crash reduced my bankroll to a mere 475! AAARGH. Santiago should have stayed out of everything too, but I knew she’d jump in. So I had several isles of the deep with groups of mindworms off of her cost. I couldn’t buy her out but she surrendered after a turn.

Lal and Zak- Do stupid things. Zak could have kept his mouth shut but he and Lal decided to team up against me and Yang. By this time the believers were down to one base, Santiago had surrendered to me and Morgan was nerve gassed to death. The idiots. If they were going to declare vendetta they should have at least coordinated their attacks and tried to slow us down. They didn’t fight back very hard at all. (at least not well) Zak was easy to beat, since he’s easy to probe. I just mind controlled his bases with defenses and blew away his troops in the others. Lal had no choice but to give in when Zak surrendered since now he had me, Yang, Santiago and his former friend Zak coming at his continent with everything we had. He surrendered right after I dropped troops around UN HQ.

I’m no great expert, but I’ll have to try playing at the next level (Talent). Do the AI players play better or do they just get meaner? There were times in this game when I probably could have lost, but it still wasn’t very hard. After Yang surrendered and started attacking my enemies I had an easy time of it. I just knew it would take a long time to win.

One more thing...I don’t know if this helps in the way I intended it too, but after building the Empath Guild I usually click on enemy bases to see what they have in them and keep track of their research to see when they’re making the breakthroughs. I do this so the AI can’t “cheat” on me and put a dozen troops in a base that was empty a second ago or have my enemies all of a sudden discover shard weapons when their current technology was far behind it. I know they can always find artifacts but its again, a remnant of my Civ 2 playing when my foes would miraculously discover air power and yet the last turn they weren’t even close.

D4

[Googlie]

D4:

Sounds like you had a good game. One thing you might consider is keeping a log of events (run word concurrently, and alt/tab between them to record notes) and spin a short story or two out of the results you are getting. It's fun.

As to whether the AI gets better, or meaner, the answer is, no, it doesn't. However, the game does make some differences as you progress in difficulty level.

(following courtesy of Prima Guide):


Delayed Gang Tackles

AI will never gang up before Turn 100 - ((5 - DIFF) * 50 )where DIFF is the player's difficulty level (Transcend = 5, Citizen = 0), except that with intense rivalry flagged, DIFF always = 5.

Mind Control

At Talent and below, AI will not use mind control against your bases

Secret projects

At Talent and below, the AI will not commence a SP until you have discovered the prerequisite tech, even if it has had it for some time

Prototype costs

At Citizen and Specialist levels, you don't pay for prototyping. At Talent and above, you do

Production Switch penalty

At C and S there is no penalty for switching a Base production in mid stream. At talent and above, you lose 1/2 your minerals accumulated over the first ten.

Other major differences lie in the production rate of minerals or nutrients (at talent and below you get advantages vs. the AI, at Librarian they are equal, above that you suffer penalties.

The tech discovery rate decreases with difficulty (more tech points needed for discovery the higher the DIFF.

Also the higher the DIFF, the more likely you will be hit with eco damage, and the earlier you will have drone problems.

Other miscellaneous events are contolled by difficulty levels (diplomacy, power overloads, losing pop to attack, earlier random events, etc, but the above are the main ones to consider.

Have fun.

Googlie


[This message has been edited by Googlie (edited June 26, 2000).]

[D4everman]

Hi Googlie...

As a matter of fact the game did give me an idea for a story. I've been mulling it over in my head all day. I'll probably try to outline it tonight or in the AM. (I'm on leave until the 5th of July, which is why i've had so much time to play! )

As far as the AI not starting a SP until you have the tech, thats not right...At Talent level there have been quite a few times when the AI has started the SP before I have the tech! I'm sure of this because I ALWAYS ALWAYS build the Hunter Seeker Algorithm. (To me its like Leonardo's workshop from Civ 2. I gotta have it! No one else can possess it!)In two games I've had to steal the technology. The AI wouldn't trade it for anything once it began building HSA and a few other SP's. If I remember Zak's words on the proposed trade it was something like "I don't think so. The HSA is too important for me to let it fall into your hands."

D4

[Bearcat]

Check out his story in the AC Fiction section

[Sikander]

Oh bummer. I thought the title "Strange Bedfellows...Me and my Yang" was some sort of wierd detachable penis sex thing I could relate to. I guess not.

[Jools]

are the centurian tales still up? it was my idea, i was head honcho untill mark kicked me out... grrrrrrrrr

[Barry Brenesal]

If an AI-controlled faction leader surrenders to you and swears a pact, they will never revolt. Only voluntary pact leaders revolt.

[Barry Brenesal]

I neglected to mention that I'm finishing up a game in which I was assisted by a docile Yang, as well. A pair of artifacts at the game's beginning yielded 2 Ogres...and guess whom I was sharing the continent with? Yang didn't stand a chance.

To be frank, he hasn't been a formidable military ally. His emphasis has been expansion, rather than conquest, although it's safe to say that the lack of continent-based locations early in the game probably crippled his might. I am still not convinced that sea-based colonies approach the overall effectiveness of land-based ones. Give me a land-based colony with a Tree Farm and a Hybrid Forest, anyday.

[Simpson II]

Barry, I'd disagree that submissives will never revolt. I once accidentally nerve stapled a base belonging to Morgan after he had submitted. Not easy to do, that, nor wise. About 10 turns later he called me up and pronounced Vendetta. Quite the most stupid thing the AI has ever done to me, as I had a half-dozen impact rovers sitting in his last base, and they didn't get moved back to my territory .

I've also heard that if a submissive gets stronger than you, then they will probably revolt unless you treated them very well. This usually couldn't happen unless you took them very early in the game, though, and I've never actually seen it.

D4everman, I liked the story! Some of the wording was a little unpolished, but it still gave me quite a chill. You probably did think up the worst punishment possible. Your Deidre even sounds like the Deidre AI in most of my games!

Do try moving up a level or two. When the Hive turns up with 30 fusion needlejets (no exaggeration, btw) you really start living on your wits. Makes things a lot more interesting (until you bribe the base they're stationed in, lol.) Yes, the AI is still quite boneheaded, but it gives so much more satisfaction to crush someone with the theoretical advantage over you.