A new civilization from the bottom of the world.

Chilean President™ · December 12, 2002, 00:06

I'm wondering... considering the current world, in a future Civ4 you could include a Latin American civilization?

...The Chilean Civilization

Datajack Franit · December 12, 2002, 06:15

Gangerolf · December 12, 2002, 11:35

cool.

any suggestions for unique unit?

Chilean President™ · December 12, 2002, 17:52

hmm.. well the Latinamerican Civilization must have has unique unit the "Corrupt Politician" with enought power to get richer and richer every single day

the Chilean Civilization must have the "Caleuche" unit... a mysterious ship that travels on the forgotten lakes, fiords and bays of the southern regions sunking foreign ships .. it get invicible 'cause is a Ghost Ship from the days of the Chilean Independence... it's pretty freak, but is a "true" legend

Wernazuma III · December 12, 2002, 18:22

Any chilean UU would have to be invincible, (o así lo creen los chilenos.

) or at least they would never retreat from combat (look at CP's signature)

Chilean President™ · December 12, 2002, 18:38

I said "invicible" not "invencible"... but... a Chilean invencible unit could be just fine

Quote:

or at least they would never retreat from combat (look at CP's signature)

I don't believe that the guys in this thread understand a word of my signature

anyway is nice to see U around here Werna.. I believe that we are the ambassadors of both of our countries in this site

peterfharris · December 12, 2002, 21:24

Good idea.

There is also an urgent need for the most glorious of all civilisations, the Australian, to be included.

I have never understood why Firaxis left Australia out.

The UU could be the "drunken hoon".

Chilean President™ · December 12, 2002, 22:05

Quote:

Originally posted by peterfharris
Good idea.

There is also an urgent need for the most glorious of all civilisations, the Australian, to be included.

I have never understood why Firaxis left Australia out.

The UU could be the "drunken hoon".

Great then.. we should contact Firaxis a let them now the global need for the inclusion of Chile and Australia in Civ4

I create a new UU for the Chilean Civilization.. it's called, "The Pinochet Zombi Unit".. when you build it he scare everybody

Wernazuma III · December 13, 2002, 14:22

He was already pretty scary when he was no Zombie...

War4ever · December 14, 2002, 16:36

argentina should have a civ...actually who is the most powerful nation in SA at this time???

Chilean President™ · December 14, 2002, 18:58

Due to my nationality I should leave this discussion to those who know Sud America's current reality, however I'll give you a little profile of each one of the countries that compose the continent, beginning with the poorest:

Bolivia: It has faced serious protests in the last 12 months, because the government began reformations to regulate the use of the leaf of coca, mainly used for indigenous who dominate the agriculture. Strikes of many days took place in the whole country, which is severely affected by the South American economic crisis. A project to export gas from Bolivia to United States and that he/she would give to the country a lot of money it has been suspended because the great majority of the Bolivians rejects the project for that the exit to the sea should be made by Chile (they hate us because we won the War of the Pacific) and because they would export to the United States (they hate US for... well they just hate the US). In the last presidential elections, it was chosen Sanchez of Lozada again and in second place arrive a native in favor of the use of coca.

Ecuador: Since 1998 it was sunk in a political and economic chaos. After a series of short administrations and even a coup Ecuador sank in the South American crisis. The rejection to the change of the currency of the country for the dollar caused protests in the whole country, mainly of indigenous and communist forces. In 2001 the economy of the country grew again and the gross internal product was stabilized. Few weeks ago a former general of the coup of 2000 won the presidential elections and it is expected that he realize economic changes that allow to his country leave the poverty.

Colombia: Internal chaos due to the state of civil war. The constants military incursions of the right and left guerrillas have reduced the possibilities of development of Colombia. The recently elected president Uribe wants to apply zero tolerance to the terrorist actions, reason why it is expected that the country could begin, on a near future, the efforts to look for the economic development and to iniciate a open economy policie with the rest of the world.

Venezuela: Hugo Chavez has driven Venezuela to the political, civil, economic and militar chaos. When he assume the control of the country, Chavez eliminate the national congress, change the constitution and began to govern as a dictator. In the last weeks Venezuela was sank in the worst of its crises, a general strike that has paralyzed the trade and inclusive the export of petroleum (Venezuela is the fifth country in exporting petroleum in the world). After almost 15 days of strike, yesterday the first confrontation took place among the national police (pro Chavez) and the army (pro democracy).

Peru: During the government of Fujimori, the guerrilla (Shining Path) was practically eliminated of the country, however Mr. Fujimori also "eliminate" money of the Peruvians and escape to Japan. In 2000 was elected president Alejandro Toledo who has had difficulties to follow government's coherent program due to the popular protests of the economic opening. It is expected that in next months the economy of Peru will grow.

Paraguay: In spite of having been sunk in the South American crisis, Paraguay was able not to fall in economic recession. Big reformations have begun in the country and because is a member of the Mercosur Group has been able to increase their exports. At the moment the president has been prosecuted by the congress due to corruption.

Uruguay: Has great respect and it is known as the South American Switzerland. The Argentinean crisis has caused some protests in the country, but in spite of having been on the edge of the economic recession it has been able to stay stable. Considered a reliable country for the experts, the politicians have suffered constant accusations of corruption. The exports of Uruguay have grown in the last months.

Brazil: Geographically it is the biggest country in the region. Also bill with the biggest market of south america and have a powerful armed forces. In spite of having high levels of exports and a strong gross internal product, almost the 50% of the population lives in poverty. Practically the middle class doesn't exist in the country.
In the recent presidential elections it was elected Inacio Lula Da Silva, a former communist and current laborist politician, contrary to the economic politicies and to the globalization. In spite of the above-mentioned he has had meetings with the presidents from Chile and United States to sign agreements of free trade and to ratify their commitment with the security and continental economy.

Argentina: Focus of the South American economic crisis. Argentina was for a lot of time the Sud American lighthouse, a jewel, however the corruption has reached untenable levels for a democracy. In less than one year it has had 6 different presidents. The protests and strikes are common in the big cities, where the lootings and the kidnappings have transformed Argentina into one of the most dangerous countries in the region. The worst part of the crisis has taken place few weeks ago, when the world knew that children on the interior of the country would be dying of famine. Argentina began to be called The South American Ethiopia. In spite of everything, the government has indicated that the worst in the crisis has already happened and that they expect an improvement in the national situation.

Chile: After 17 years of military government, directed by the General Augusto Pinochet, Chile carried out democratic elections in 1990. Between 1991 and 1997, due to the economic changes taken place from 80's, the economy began to grow to 7 or 8% a year. However in 1998 the Asian crisis caused a fall in that percentage to 4%. In 2000 it assumed the power president Ricardo Lagos, well-known internationally like a reliable person and a great politician. The Asian crisis left Chile with levels of unemployment of 8% which has begun to lower in the last months. The investment in technology and communications that began in the 90's caused the arrival of big technological companies that established theirs Latin American HQ in the country (Oracle, Compaq, Motorola, Intel, Microsoft, etc.). The quick technological growth of the country is demonstrated with the appearance of the Internet wide band and satellital (that have 40% of the market) and the cellular telephony (85% of the market, the biggest in the continent). Due to the great technological development reached by Chile this year, 3 free trade agreements of supreme importance were signed, with South Korea, the European Union and another with the United States (the first agreement of free trade that US signs with a South American country).
In spite of the above-mentioned, the level of unemployment has gone down only from 8% to 7,6% and the armed forces should have deferred their development projects (in the last 10 years they were bought new F-16, however the Navy has not changed their old ships).

Chilean President™ · December 14, 2002, 19:05

pardon for the orthographic and grammatical errors

ranskaldan · December 15, 2002, 01:12

Nice!

btw, can you explain the Andean Pact & Mercosur? How strong/weak/effective/meaningless are these organizations? Also, the concept of "AFTA"?

Truth is, my knowledge of that quadrant of the world is seriously lacking.

jdd2007 · December 15, 2002, 21:13

yah, right after andorra.

Dugrik · December 17, 2002, 19:46

The most obvious South American civ would be the Incas. They certainly deserved inclusion more than the Iroqouis did.

Of the modern Latin American states, Brazil is clearly the emerging technological and industrial leader which will dominate the continent in the years to come.

Chilean President™ · December 17, 2002, 21:29

A country because is big, in geographical terms, is not necessarily the most powerful or advanced in a continent.
In the case of the technological development, Brazil has had several advances in the last years, but Mexico, Chile, Uruguay and even the small Costa Rica has shown much more and important technological advances.

Ranskaldan tomorrow I'll post a thread explaining the pros and cons that the Mercosur, the Andean Pact and the AFTA have.

Chilean President™ · December 19, 2002, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by ranskaldan
btw, can you explain the Andean Pact & Mercosur? How strong/weak/effective/meaningless are these organizations? Also, the concept of "AFTA"?

Ranskaldan, you asked me which are the strengths and weaknesses of the Andean Pact, Mercosur and the AFTA. I'll explain to you each one of them for separate.

Andean Pact: Initially it has been founded by all the countries of South America for where it passes the Andes (to that their name is owed). In a principle their objective was to become the "European Union" of South America, however the hostilities among many of its members (Chile-Argentina, Peru-Ecuador, Colombia-Venezuela) didn't allow that many advances took place. In the beginnings of the decade of the 90, and due to the obtained economic growth, Chile and Argentina decided to retire of the pact. At the moment the pact is very weak and the annual meeting of presidents that is carried out in one of the countries is only a formality. Due to the lack of stability of the nations that compose it and to the lack of the rulers' will, the Andean Pact was never able to reach the first of all its objectives; to create an area of free trade for those countries.
Now, Peru and Venezuela would be trying to transform the Andean Pact and to change the name to "Merconorte" and to carry out similar policies to those that have settled down in the Mercosur.

Mercosur: It was founded in the middle of the 90 by Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay and Paraguay. Their mission was similar to that of the Andean Pact; become an Area of Free Trade for South America and to reach common policies among the states members of the pact, the same as in Europe. The internal stability of the countries that conform the Mercosur and theirs economic development allowed to negotiate, as a block, commercial agreements with Europe and the United States, being the current goal (that their expect to reach before the 2010) an agreement of free trade with Europe and the ratification and setting in march of the AFTA with the United States and Canada.
In 1998 two countries were added as associated members to the Mercosur. Bolivia (that cannot be a full member because it's a member of the Andean Pact and their policies and economic development is to far behind the Mercosur's countries) and Chile (that has not been totally interested to have full power in the Mercosur due to the success of their economic policies, which has allowed Chile go ahead of the countries members after signing an free trade agreement with Europe and other with the United States without considering the AFTA). The above-mentioned provoked frictions between Brazil and Chile. The first one believes that the bilateral agreements that Chile has signed could deteriorate the position to negociate of the rest of the continent. On the other hand, Chile doesn't consider Brazil like an emergent economic power after the recession in which Brazil fell.
The reality of the problems among Chile and Brazil that has delayed the incorporation of Chile to the Mercosur and the signature of the AFTA is, due to the constant growth of the Chilean economy, Brazil feels that their advantage, prevalence and leadership in the continent is affected, plus the recent economic problems that Brazil have due to the Argentinean crisis. On the other hand, Chile has clear aspirations to become the economic power of the continent, considering Brazil as a direct rival to such aspirations.
The problems between both countries can be understood better with a quote of the Chinese Premier Jiang Zemin, before he visit both countries: "I'll go to Chile because it is an island of stability in a dark continent and in spite of the small size of their market it is our stronger business partner in the region. The last year, the commercial exchange beetwen China and Chile was 2 thousand million dollars. And I'll go to Brazil because, although the commercial exchange was only of a Thousand million dollars, it is the biggest market in South America, and we have great expectations of the future of Brazil".

AFTA: Americas' Free Trade Agreement or Americas' Free Trade Area. In 1997, Bill Clinton and Jean Chretien (prime minister of Canada) conceived a plan to enlarge the Agreement of Free Trade of North America or NAFTA (USA, Canada and Mexico) to the rest of the countries of the Americas. The idea is to create an area of free trade that embraces all the countries from Canada to Chile, with the exception of Cuba.
The deadline for the beginning of the conversations is 2005. However the countries members of the Mercosur want to hurry the start of the negociations, 'cause they believe that the signature and application of the agreement could be signed in 2010, or perhaps later, that which would be disastrous for the economy of Brazil and Argentina.
Due to the attacks of September 11, Bush left aside the latin american isue and it didn't exist many expectations that the conversations can be restarted soon, but due to the agreement signed, a couple of weeks ago between Chile and the US, the doors of the beginning of the conversations have been opened up again, that which is ratified by the words of Bush that is considering the AFTA as a goal that his government should achieve.
The AFTA would have excellent repercussions in the economy of the Americas, however the biggest problem in its implementation is that the countries fewer developed of the area should modernize their legislations, improve effective economic policies and eliminate the corruption in a really short period of time.

again..excuse my orthographic and grammatical mistakes.

AFH · January 4, 2003, 01:56

Why not a Venezuelan Civilization ? If you look the history, ( Not present-day venezuela, of course) you will see great things. Simon Bolivar, a venezuelan, is the Padre de la Patria ( Father of the Country) of Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador, Bolivia y Peru. If we use a UU like a Libertador (Liberator). The 19th Century Venezuela will be a great Civilization. Maybe (And don't take this wrong) Venezuela is the Latin American Nation wit more chance to go in Civ4.

Wernazuma III · January 4, 2003, 05:58

Oh, isn't South American nationalism just cute?

ranskaldan · January 4, 2003, 17:18

Chilean President:

nice nice. thanks!

AFH · January 5, 2003, 22:20

One day we will be powerful enough, and firaxis will have to put us in Civilization.

Chilean President™ · January 6, 2003, 00:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Oh, isn't South American nationalism just cute?

Well AFH, sure Bolivar was a great leader from Venezuela.. or I should say, from Gran Colombia (I believe that was the name of Colombia and Venezuela in the first half of the 19th century), but I don't believe that a nation is a great one due to only one guy. I think that a nation, empire or civilization, must have on their background an history of development or something like that and not follow only great warlords.

At this point I believe that no South American nation has achieved the right to be on CIV4... of course a few of them are on the right path, but we should see what the future say.

Barfus · January 6, 2003, 22:58

i for one say why not. i really want to overhaul all the civilizations. some shouldnt be in there

Beren · January 14, 2003, 10:33

Why don't you pick Peru and make Cuzco their capital. And you know what. Let's rename them to Incas.

Ok, Ok, A Latin American civ could be used in a scenario about how the decolonised states were developing in the ninteenth century. Ok, USA won that one.

Chilean President™ · January 14, 2003, 19:15

Yeah it should be an American (as te continent not the country) Independent War Scenario. But we should see what UU are better for each country... in those years the army of Chile, Argentina and Uruguay were from the same size and types of units. Peru and Gran Colombia were also similar.

Other countries like Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador (I think) did not exist has independent countries in the early 19th century.

Bonaparte · January 14, 2003, 22:26

The heck with South America you all know that the most influential civilization that's ever existed belongs to the people of Luxembourg!!!

OK...I'll shut up now

Beren · January 20, 2003, 08:25

What I was more thinking about was an industrial race between the decolonized countries of America. (Which I think we can all agree on that one the USA won..)

Chilean President™ · January 22, 2003, 00:15

I agree Beren, America did won the industrial race, but not in the early XIX century, but in the final years. The victory over Spain in 1898 (I believe that's the right year), transform the USA in a developed nation.

Thats why the scenario must have the first independent countries; USA (1776), Chile (1810), Mexico (1816), etc... and each one the strenght of that historical moment, the "birth of a nation" scenario with the internal (political unrest) and external (Spain / Britain) menaces.

Az · January 22, 2003, 06:25

Quote:

The victory over Spain in 1898 (I believe that's the right year), transform the USA in a developed nation.

you've got it wrong. USA won the war because it was a developed nation. (unlike spain)

Chilean President™ · January 22, 2003, 12:49

Ok. USA already was a developed nation, but wasn't a world power yet. After the victory over Spain they become a important piece of the international board. Spain was a developed nation at that moment, but after the war with so many countries in South America, they didn't have the strenght to fight a war against a consolided new nation. We must remember that the "American Squad" that the Spanish had in South America was destroyed in Peru, Argentina, Chile and Gran Colombia, by the forces of San Martin and Bolivar. And the Spanish naval fleet was destroyed first in 1818 and later in 1860 by the Chilean Naval Fleet, under the command of the great Lord Cochrane (1818-1819) and the command of the admirals Blanco Encalada and Juan Muller in the Chilean-Spanish war of the 1860.