Readiness for the Great War, 1220AD

[Togas]

As of 1220 AD we have the following forces available for war with Germany:

9 explorers
28 riflemen
37 cavalary
18 cannons

additionally, we have:

2 knights
5 swordsmen
1 longbowman (I have no idea how he got built)
19 muskets
2 settlers
2 galleys
2 caravels
1 galleon
1 ironclad

AND we have the following units in defense of Uber Island:

1 cavalary
2 riflemen
3 muskets

Some of these may be used for home defense, but due to the rapid development of railroads every one of our cities is now instantly connected to all other cities (mainland only), very few need to be allocated as such. Our defense may be fluid and troops may be moved to any front as necessary.

Our military advisor indicates that, compared to Germany, we have a strong military.

Diplomatically, the only MPPs in existance at this time are between England & Rome, and Rome & Japan. Germany has no sworn allies and, hopefully, will not have any prior to the invasion, however, it may be in our best interest to sign MPPs now with the Aztecs and Greeks to ensure that the Germans do not beat us to it.

Be aware that if we bring England into this war and Germany strikes them, Rome and Japan may be dragged along as well. We are starting the first "World War" that this planet has seen. This is going to be very messy.

I would recommend that we sign a RoP with our eventual ally the Aztecs, and possibly other allied nations. They could use our railway lines to instantly become involved in the war (once a railway bypass is built by Timeline and Gaia) and due to the seemless flow of our lines, they would rarely, if ever, end a turn in our territory. In fact we may want to build railway lines directly to our borders to facilitiate their movement into and OUT OF our territory instantly.

Electricity will be finished next turn. Afterwards, I understand that the plan is to research Scientific Method, however, I would propose that we research Replaceable Parts instead. This advance would give us Infantry(6/10/1) and Artillary(12/0/1 with range of 2 and rate of fire of 2!) (and allow our workers to work 2x as fast). These advancements would allow us to upgrade our riflemen into invincible defenders with the attack strength of a cav and upgrade our cannons into double attack models with long range.

These upgrades may not be ready for the first turn of the war, but the war will last THE DURATION OF OUR MPP, and these upgrade would be ready a turn or two into the war. They could give us a substantial military boost after our initial shock assault.

--Togas

[ManicStarSeed]

I agree with most of what you said here Togas.

However, I would take exception to the point about replacable parts. We need top get Scientific method first so that we can get a head start on ToE. Then we should go for Replacable Parts. I bet we can get Sci. Met. with in 4-5 turns. Then replacable parts 4-7 turns after that. I know that puts RP (and artiliary) 8-12 turns out, but getting ToE will just about guarentee a real tech lead. Especially with a crippled Germany.


Another point, Lets get england in the war Especially if rome and Japan get involved. This will hamstring all these nations as well. If we avoid RoPs with them, then by the time their forces get to the front, the front will have moved and maybe germany will be non-existant.

As long as we stay "friends" with everybody, then there are no real worries.

Just My 2 cents
Mss

[Kloreep]

Would it be possible to start pre-building ToE with the palace? That way, we could research Replacable Parts first while not loosing any time on ToE.

Originally posted by Togas
1 longbowman (I have no idea how he got built)

Probably an upgraded Archer. He's likely been around since our very first war, so he should be given a special place of honor.

[Aro]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Would it be possible to start pre-building ToE with the palace? That way, we could research Replacable Parts first while not loosing any time on ToE.

Great idea.

Originally posted by Kloreep
Probably an upgraded Archer. He's likely been around since our very first war, so he should be given a special place of honor.

[roadcage]

We need the RoP with the Aztecs so we can pre-position the Cologne Assault force.

[Togas]

Originally posted by Kloreep
Would it be possible to start pre-building ToE with the palace? That way, we could research Replacable Parts first while not loosing any time on ToE.

This is exactly what we should do with ToE. Start on a Palace ASAP, and when we discover the tech in 10-12 turns, change to ToE.

--Togas

[E_T]

After some consideration and talks with Prez Aggie, taking the following into account:

1) We would not complete ToE until at most 18 turns from now. This is including the time for building the Factory in Ghengistown. THis will be with Ghengistown at full population and maxed in shield output. It's currently slated to use the Palace as a shield storer until the SM has been researched.

2) That we would most likely get RP after D-Turn, unless we are able to get 4 turns to the tech. Even IF we did get the tech right on D-Turn, it would delay movement of the Artillary until D-Turn plus 1.

We will see exactly how long it will take us to get both RP & SM. If it's an appriciable amount of time, then we'll be going with SM first. If we can afford to wait with the change to ToE, then we'll be going for RP and then SM. We will see what will occur in the Chat on Friday.

The initial Assault will be made with the Cannons. IF we do go for RP, we will likely get it around D-Turn plus 2 to 4. It's planned to cycle in the cannons for Upgrades and combine them with the cannons that are being used, for what ever part of the assult that is occuring at that time.

E_T

[Ninot]

ill make my monthly appearance now

boo war!

thankyou

[Meshelic]

Originally posted by Togas
As of 1220 AD we have the following forces available for war with Germany:

9 explorers
28 riflemen
37 cavalary
18 cannons
--Togas

That is the amount of armed forces available only at the moment, but what is the proposed amount of armed forces ready for battle when the invasion date comes?

It would be better to go in and overwhelm them, maybe:

35 riflemen
45 cavaly
20 cannons
w/musketman front lines/home defense just in case the Germans destroy our invading army...

or is this not possible?

[Aro]

I'm not able to see the save now, but we have some cavalry in production, maybe cannons. I'm not sure about Riflemen. If I'm not wrong, most of our queues have factories as #1. Is this correct, E_T?

[Panag]

hi ,

togas , no way to increase the army / navy a bit , .....

have a nice day

[E_T]

Yes, that's Correct. We will have the Factories starting to come online shortly after the war starts. With PW doing it's job, we should have the Factories up before too long. I've had a lot of Trees that I've been saving for just this eventuallity.

We will have the Facxtories up and Running before you can say, "gosh, that was fast...", but they should start to come onlne about 5 to 6 turns after D-Turn.

But that is'nt for all of the Cities, just most of the olders ones, we will still have a few Mil Units being built during the Interegum. Although, If we take heavy losses, The war might stagnate for a bit. But all of those brand new Factories can then start pumping out the Military...

E_T

[joncnunn]

I concer with ManicStarSeed on we need to get Scientfic Method next given the war with Germany.

A major factor in how much a tech costs is how many other civs have it. If we discover Replaceable Parts, Germany can reserach it at a cheaper rate. (Especally if we tech-whore it to our allies.)

I think we should beeline to Electronics with the plan to make Replaceable Parts the highest priority to buy when an AI discovers it.

Originally posted by ManicStarSeed
I agree with most of what you said here Togas.

However, I would take exception to the point about replacable parts. We need top get Scientific method first so that we can get a head start on ToE. Then we should go for Replacable Parts. I bet we can get Sci. Met. with in 4-5 turns. Then replacable parts 4-7 turns after that. I know that puts RP (and artiliary) 8-12 turns out, but getting ToE will just about guarentee a real tech lead. Especially with a crippled Germany.

Just My 2 cents
Mss

[joncnunn]

I agree with E_T.

[Arnelos]

Togas,

I agree with the various elements you propose with the notable exception of signing a RoP with the Aztecs. With so many of our cities undefended and given the AI's penchant to make tactically tempting yet strategically inane decisions about conducting surprise attacks, it's probably not a very wise move...

[Togas]

With regards to RoPs & MPPs:

So long as we sign an RoP at the same time that we sign a MPP we have no fear of backstabbing from that nation. They will be locked in an alliance with us for the duration of the time we give them permission to travel along our railways, and with the declaration of war on Germany, our new allies would be far too wrapped up in our joint war to consider such betrayal. I believe it may actually be impossible to attack someone that you've signed an MPP with, perhaps someone could test this. But in any regards, I have never seen the AI backstab an ally with a MPP.

An RoP with the Aztecs would also allow us to attack Germany from the former American lands.

As for RoPs with other nations, we should only sign them if we are certain that we want their help in this war. Frankly, I don't believe we need the help of any other nations (we are signing MPPs to ensure that Greece and the Aztecs do not attack us), and the presence of their units may hinder our own advances. It may also be in our interest to keep other nations from stealing cities from Germany that we can easily conquer.

Also note: We need to sign a military alliance with England. The last thing we want is for Germany to beat us to England and for us to fight a war with Germany, England, Rome, and Japan.


With regards to Replaceable Parts & the Tech Race with Germany:

Once this war starts, Germany's research will go to nil as they switch their economy to rapidly rush military units to counter us, and as they spend to draw in allies to counter our alliance. Furthermore, our efforts to stop all luxuries from coming into their country will massively destabalize their people and cause them to switch to luxuries, entertainers, or possibly fall into anarchy. Bottom line: Once we attack them, we've basically won the tech war.

There is no need to rush researching Scientific Method, as we can prebuild Theory of Evolution and switch to it at a later time.

There is no need to rush to ToE as we will be the tech leader. We just need to ensure that no other nation builds it before us.

There IS reason to rush to Replaceable Parts as those military advances will double or triple the effectiveness of our cannons with artillary, and infantry will ensure that our vulnerable cities and stacks are secure from counter attack. We could really use the advance for this war.

Furthermore, the doubled worker rate will allow us to RAPIDLY transform our nation into a railroaded production paradise just in time for our factories to take advantage of it.

--Togas

[Hot Mustard]

I concur with Togas on England and Replaceable Parts, but not the RoP. We have empty cities! I don't care what assurances are given, I would never sign a RoP with undefended cities.

[ManicStarSeed]

Ok Ok... I see the logic... I conceede, lets get Replacable Parts over with as long as we prebuild OR swith from Universal Sufferage. I rarely build it in my games as I see ToE as effectivly cinching the tech lead.

Also we can tech whore RP to our allies if needed, though I tend to wait unill I am 2-3 techs from mobilized transport.

As for the undefended cities, how do we feel about conscripting n them?

Mss

[GhengisFarb™]

No RoP!

[Spiffor]

I agree with Dejon : we MUST have at least one crappy defender per city. Otherwise, it will be too much of a bait to the AI (you know how the AI is gung ho when it sees an undefended city)

[joncnunn]

Let's leave out the RoP so that we can keep those cities empty.

The more German units our empty cites (out of any real danger) we lure out of their cities, the less costly the war will be.

Originally posted by Spiffor
I agree with Dejon : we MUST have at least one crappy defender per city. Otherwise, it will be too much of a bait to the AI (you know how the AI is gung ho when it sees an undefended city)

Edit: In addition, German units we kill inside our territory won't increase War Werriousness, while unit loses on both sides inside German territory will increase war werrriousness.

[joncnunn]

The war doesn't start for 5 turns. (4 after we have Electrecity), this gives plenty of time for the Germans to get Scientific Method half reserached before the war starts.

I also note that it costs 40% science beakers to reserach Replaceable Parts from scratch than Scientic Theory. (Assuming nobody has either tech.)

(Base cost is 100 for Scientific Theory and 140 for Replaceable Parts in 1.21f.)

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Togas [/SIZE

With regards to Replaceable Parts & the Tech Race with Germany:

Once this war starts, Germany's research will go to nil as they switch their economy to rapidly rush military units to counter us, and as they spend to draw in allies to counter our alliance. Furthermore, our efforts to stop all luxuries from coming into their country will massively destabalize their people and cause them to switch to luxuries, entertainers, or possibly fall into anarchy. Bottom line: Once we attack them, we've basically won the tech war.

There is no need to rush researching Scientific Method, as we can prebuild Theory of Evolution and switch to it at a later time.

There is no need to rush to ToE as we will be the tech leader. We just need to ensure that no other nation builds it before us.

There IS reason to rush to Replaceable Parts as those military advances will double or triple the effectiveness of our cannons with artillary, and infantry will ensure that our vulnerable cities and stacks are secure from counter attack. We could really use the advance for this war.

Furthermore, the doubled worker rate will allow us to RAPIDLY transform our nation into a railroaded production paradise just in time for our factories to take advantage of it.

--Togas

[Shiber]

Originally posted by Togas
As of 1220 AD we have the following forces available for war with Germany:

9 explorers

We're gonna need 10 if we want to disconnect Germany in one turn as we planned (unless I'm mistaken and it doesn't take two pillagings to completely unrail and unroad a RR'ed tile).

[joncnunn]

I think Explorers can be built in 1 turn so getting the 10th we need by D Day shouldn't be much of a problem.

(Yes, the first pillaging downgrades RR to road and a second pillaging is needed to unroad.)

[Shiber]

I was rather hoping that we'd build extra explorers. The Germans might build additional railroads by D-turn, and if we're not prepared for surprises then we could screw up everything.

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Shiber
I was rather hoping that we'd build extra explorers. The Germans might build additional railroads by D-turn, and if we're not prepared for surprises then we could screw up everything.

Yeah they are cheap enough, lets do it. They can really muck up germany's works.

One question, when germany captures them are they destroyed or captured for Otto's future use . I think that they destroyed, but I am not sure.

Mss

[Aro]

Destroyed.
Edit: damn, now I'm in doubt...

[Shiber]

I dunno, I've never captured explorers.

[ManicStarSeed]

Originally posted by Aro
Destroyed.
Edit: damn, now I'm in doubt...

Me too. Here is why..

I utilized the pillaging strategy (for the first time in fact) once I saw that we were planning to use it here.

I saw the "americans captured our explorer message" but they never used it on me and I never saw the explorers again, even when I wiped them out.

Ms

[Kloreep]

I just ran a simulation, and they are destroyed. I don't think you can capture units unless they cost pop.

500th post! Yay!