AI never attacks other AIs?

Savant · December 13, 2002, 19:03

Oh brother. Here I am playing this game again after so many months. I downloaded some spiffo maps and did nothing to the AI files or anything else.

Anyway, I am playing a remote civ and then when I happened to encounter the others and watch their behavior for some 1000 years or so, I notice they never go to war with each other!

Never. The only wars are those involving me. Sure, some gang-up in alliance against me or I start a war with one or the other, but they never attack each other. Not one of the 15 other vivs has waged war with any other than mine!

It's 1800 AD now and I wonder if this is the usual? How do you get the AI to actually not be so pally with other AIs?

Jaybe · December 13, 2002, 19:09

Some games are like that, real peaceful like. Some games an AI will become a "killer".

You can influence things if you wish by going to war with someone. It tends to increase military production and change balances of power.

Jawa Jocky · December 13, 2002, 19:18

It just happens sometimes. Sign MMPs and then start some wars. You can also cut off trade routes and do some diplomacy missions.

Savant · December 13, 2002, 19:42

AI to attack other AIs or just me? I guess despite all the flaws in Call to Power, at least the AI would wage wars with nonplayer civs.

Is your experience the same? Do you actually have the AI civs fight each other?

And thanks for the replies.

tinyp3nis · December 13, 2002, 20:37

In my games the AI beats up each other all the time. Sometimes it's very peaceful and nobody attacks, not even me....

WarpStorm · December 13, 2002, 21:16

My games are mixed. Some games there are very few wars, others everyone is backstabbing each other and in a constant state of warfare. It has to do with which civs (some are more aggressive than others), geography, resources (or more properly lack thereof), lebensraum (players with it are less likely to war), and just plain luck. Of course, you can set things up if you like war.

Brizey · December 13, 2002, 21:48

"The (insert civ here) have been destroyed by the Rampaging (insert another civ here)!"

vmxa1 · December 13, 2002, 23:08

One would wonder how many games were played to use the word never. I see many AI battles and have since the game came out. I have had many games where the AI sent troops through my lands to attack another AI. Just FYI, the AI doesn not know AI from human. Anyway as Brizey posted that msg can be seen in every game or nearly so, with normal numbers of civs in the game. Civs are sometimes killed that I never made contact with in a huge game.

Cyclotron · December 13, 2002, 23:17

My games are always, always plagued by massive AI wars, especially of the kind where the dominant AI decides to annex the most primitive AI.

chairmanmeow · December 14, 2002, 00:52

I've had only one time that I can think of that an AI attacked another AI. I (Persia) was in an MPP with both France and Russia, and Russia attacked France, forcing me to declare war on Russia. Of course, Russia got the sh*t beat out of them, but my ally France didn't last that long either

Kingof the Apes · December 14, 2002, 02:14

I have had games where everyone is happy and peaceful into the industerial ages before I started a massive world war out of boredom, and then I have had games where declaring peace was just a way to build up your forces for a couple of turns befor backstabbing when the time is right. Two games stick out in particular, one where I was in a massive world war from about 1800 to 2047,(spaceship) and one where I had an island start and four civs were wiped out before I made contact with anyone.

Pyrodrew · December 14, 2002, 02:57

Quote:

How do you get the AI to actually not be so pally with other AIs?

MPPs are 1 way, but that very often mean you'll be in a war(s) too.

The more peaceful way - Embargos. The AI constantly trades with one another, which I suspect helps their relations with each other. Even IF trading does not improve relations between the Civs, a Civ not being able to trade wines for techs hurts them. Embargoes prevent any trades of resources & seems to create tension. Even tho you set up the embargo, the AI Civ being embargoed may attack some other Civ who embargoed them. I've even have those I ask to embargo a Civ declare war against the embargoed Civ a few turns later! In my last game, superpower Egypt declared war on superpower Aztecs... even tho both were on opposite sides of the map. Both spent a lot of time creating/sending units, but no major territory changed hands. More importantly, both left me alone - despite me having no Saltpeter (only Pikemen).

Get several Civs to embargo a superpower to decrease your odds of being involved in the future war. Keep in mind the AI is horrible at conducting long distance wars.

Get several Civs to embargo an AI that you plan to attack next turn.

Just be sure not to include weak AI Civs in the embargo who are neighbors to a stronger AI Civ you have the embargo on. Otherwise, you could simply be helping them grow.

bobbo008 · December 14, 2002, 11:41

On my latest game, I'm playing as Japan, huge map, 16 civs and I'm #1, having already conquered three of the smaller civs.

I declared war on the Aztecs. The Babylonians soon declared war on me. I got the Persians involved with a MPP. I was able then to get a peace treaty with the aztecs basically because a MPP signed with them. Stupidly, I have MPP's with two countries at war. So the next turn I was forced to declare war on Persia, my ally. I ended up non-stop wars with Russia, England, Persia, two with Babylon and two with Aztecs. It lasted several hundred years (1400ish-1760) and the year is now 1850 and half the civs are still fighting between themselves.

Prior to this, there had never been a war in the game.

Berduin · December 14, 2002, 13:41

I find that, at least for me, playing on lower difficulty levels reduces the chance of the AIs attacking each other (and you). That's why I usually stay above Prince (or Regent... why did they change it?). Still, there are some games when no one attacks anyone, so I have to be the catalyst, sign some MPPs, and get a world war going. That seems to be the AI war "trigger". After that point, even if I'm at peace with everyone else, the AI will declare war on other AI to settle old scores or something.

wilbill · December 14, 2002, 23:45

I've been in a diplomatic mode lately. Won my last two games via the UN. In the first, a large map, many civs, there was very little warfare prior to the Industrial Era and some isolated local wars after that. In the second, I tried to get a world war going int he middle ages with MPP's and couldn't.

I've also played games in which I was fighting one or more civs almost from the first turn to the last.

I consider this unpredictable behavior by the AI's a good thing. It keeps my play from becoming one dimensional.

Flip McWho · December 15, 2002, 00:31

I'm playing a game where Babylon, India, America, China and a few others (all AI) all ganged up on the poor Japanese (AI) while i sat back and watched. Also the Japanese lost all their territory and are now memories of some forgotten time.
In fact in this game quite a few AI have had wars with other AI, but then so have I.

Willem · December 15, 2002, 03:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Savant

Is your experience the same? Do you actually have the AI civs fight each other?

All the time. A short while ago, the entire Aztec nation was destroyed by the Japanese in one of games. In my current one, the Vikings were destroyed and I never even got to meeet them. You just ended up with a peaceful sort of game, it happens. Though not very often.

VJ · December 15, 2002, 10:17

I've noticed that in Regent livel (Patch 1.29f, Original Civ3),
all AI players ally, then take out few weak other AI's (all other AI's allied),
share all their techs, etc. etc. This kinda like ruins the game, everybody is against you.

WarpStorm · December 15, 2002, 10:22

I don't know about that Tuomerehu, I find that what happens in most of my games is that I am in the alliance (often in the drivers seat) that wipes out the other players.

vmxa1 · December 15, 2002, 16:20

I have not played a regent game in some time, but the AI is not capable of beating anyone at that level with or with out MPP/ROP's all around, if you have read the htreads on playing.

mrmitchell · December 15, 2002, 17:48

eh.

Some of my games, the AI is the most peaceful little civilizations out there...

...until I come along.

Other games, they declare war virtually every other turn.

Declaring war does seem to increase their chances to declare war again later.

theNiceOne · December 16, 2002, 04:16

As most posters have shown, the AI often wage wars. My last finished game is typical for me:
Emperor, standard size, max civs, everything else random:
I start on a continent with two other civs which start fighting each other before spearmen. This gives me the opportunity to catch up and attack with spearmen and finally wipe them out. When I later get contact with the biggest continent (4 civs) they are already at war (and have been for most of the game as I see from the playback). On that continent there are shifting wars most of the time, until I invade with tanks and later wipe them out.

Anyway, I think some of the misconceptions comes from the fact that we aren't told about AI wars unless having embassy in at least one of the capitals. It is easy to overlook a distant war that you arne't told about.

VJ · December 16, 2002, 04:39

Quote:

I have not played a regent game in some time, but the AI is not capable of beating anyone at that level with or with out MPP/ROP's all around, if you have read the htreads on playing.

I will win the game playing on regent - with or without being allied to the most of AI -
I just stopped playing few months ago when I realized that the AI had no serious competition
with itself whatsoever.

So haven't really tested levels above...

Savant · December 16, 2002, 14:50

This is helpful information, thanks.

So to get more AI activity against other AIs the game should be played at a higher difficulty? I must admit, I usually play "warlord" status because I hate to just pad the AI with so many advantages. If playing at higher difficulty levels meant the AI was smarter, I would, but just to pad their starting stats and give them a free ride seems phoney.

Thanks for the embassy tip too. I have to figure that out. How do you get embassies?

Stuie · December 16, 2002, 15:17

What size map are you playing on? The more space the AI has to expand, the less likely it is to come into conflict. Try putting 16 Civs on a 120x120 map. I think you'll see the wars heat up a little faster.

To establish embassies, you have to discover Writing, then double click on the little star next to your capital and you'll be given the opportunity to establish embassies.

GreyRandall · December 16, 2002, 15:47

I'll admit at first I thought that was the case as well, until one day I was playing one of my custom scenarios. I finally made it across the ocean to find the Chinese... with cities that had Chinese, Indian, and Japanese names. Didn't get any messages about them either, but then again, I had no contact with any of those civs either.

I'd say it works.. you might want to check the scenario you're playing if you're playing a user edited scenario. Some people tone down the aggressiveness of some civs, this drops the likelyhood of the AI controlled civs waging war against eachother... additionally, if it's a custom scenario and say perhaps the units frequently built vs never built get changed for a particular civ, that too will affect aggressiveness, war waging. Kind of hard to wage war when all you have are settlers, workers and scouts out there.

Arrian · December 16, 2002, 17:30

The AI will pick on any civ it thinks it can bully, whether it's another AI civ or you.

I think there may be an agressiveness trigger involved to: if you start ripping up your continent, there seems to be a corresponding increase in warfare all over the world.

It also has a lot to do with room for expansion and exactly which civs are in the game (if you have a game with the Germans, Zulu, Mongols, Aztecs, Vikings, Romans and Japanese, there will be more warfare than a game with the French, Egyptians, Indians, Koreans, etc). If an AI civ, particularly an aggressive AI civ, gets hemmed in early on, they are quite likely to pick a fight with whomever is in their way.

I played a PTW game as the Celts not long ago in which I conquered my continent (taking down the Russians, Germans and English). During that time, the Persians, Zulu and Babylonians were involved in a bloody free-for-all that generated six great leaders (4 zulu, 1 persian, 1 bab). I know this because the replay now shows such things: very cool

In my current game as the Chinese, the AIs have not fought one another except for alliances I put together to destroy India and the Arabs (Japan has also been "dealt with" but w/o AI support). Surprisingly enough, the Mongols have peacefully become the #2 civ in the game both by power AND culture (having the Oracle, GW and HG in Karakorum helps with that). All 4 remaining AIs in the game are seperated from one another either by me (Ottomans, Mongols, Korea) or ocean (Carthage), so I don't expect much AI vs. AI fighting.

-Arrian

joncnunn · December 16, 2002, 17:57

I play on the Emperor level, the AIs declare war on each other all the time after one of them finishes REXing.

The AI seems to have the same basic behavior as mine, (if possible to expand peacefully, do so, but if hemed in expand miliatarly.) It's just that I'm better at this than the AI because I'm both more agressively peacefully expanding and more agressive militarly expanding than the AI.

peterfharris · December 16, 2002, 18:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Savant
This is helpful information, thanks.

So to get more AI activity against other AIs the game should be played at a higher difficulty? I must admit, I usually play "warlord" status because I hate to just pad the AI with so many advantages. If playing at higher difficulty levels meant the AI was smarter, I would, but just to pad their starting stats and give them a free ride seems phoney.

Thanks for the embassy tip too. I have to figure that out. How do you get embassies?

The AI Civs also fight amongst themselves at Warlord and Chieftain. I suspect it takes them longer to start fighting because it takes them longer to occupy all the land. They also tend to hacve few units at those levels possibly effecting propensity to wage war? In my Warlord games the Ancient Era tends to be quite peaceful then the wars start in the laste middle ages. More often then not it is the AI civilisations fighting amongst themselves.

In my last Warlord game the other 4 civs spent virtually the entire game fighting amongst themselves. Interestingly it was 3 little civs (bad start locations on small islands) allied against a large civ (very good start on small continent). The 3 little civs were having a hard time of it even together so it seemed the AI had sufficient intelligence to make sensible strategic alliances so those little civs could survive against the big one. I launched my spaceship without ever being involved in war although I did give money and some tech to help the 3 little civs. (EDIT) BTW They were really sinking the boot into one another, a very vicious war. Not all AI wars are so aggressive. Sometimes AI versus human wars are not very aggressive, at lower difficulty levels I have had wars with little or no combat whatsoever, always unwanted wars started by an AI civ. I suspect there is more fighting at higher difficulty levels, most of my regent and monarch wars had plenty of fighting, my one deity war was absolutely full on.

theNiceOne · December 17, 2002, 04:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Savant
This is helpful information, thanks.

So to get more AI activity against other AIs the game should be played at a higher difficulty? I must admit, I usually play "warlord" status because I hate to just pad the AI with so many advantages. If playing at higher difficulty levels meant the AI was smarter, I would, but just to pad their starting stats and give them a free ride seems phoney.

Thanks for the embassy tip too. I have to figure that out. How do you get embassies?

You must play above regent before the AI get advantages, and even on Monarch, their advantages are quite scarce. A good player will easily be able to grow/research/produce faster than the AI on monarch.

As other has written, I don't think the AI is more aggressive on higher levels, but it gets more and better units faster, and will therefore also start fighting sooner.

You establish an embassy by clicking on the star symbol at your capital's name. Also note that embassies improves the AI's relation towards you, and are necessary for ROPs which improves the relation even more.