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Old June 19, 2000, 03:05   #1
D4everman
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If you had to be in a faction.....
Ok, I've only got one more thing to post this morning (so far)

If this fantasy world game were real which faction would you really want to lead or be in?

I'm in the military but I wouldn't be a spartan...I like the university but I don't see me fitting it into that society. As much as I hate to admit it, I'd probably be a peacekeeper. Funny thing is my co-worker (he plays a lot of SMAC) thinks I'd be in the University and he feels he'd be there too, but I see him as more of a Believer.

What do you think you'd be in?

D4
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Old June 19, 2000, 05:38   #2
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Deirdre's boyfriend/husband/lover maybe ? ;-)

Well seriously now, my faction's agenta would better suit the UoP. When I was in the army (artillery) we had a motto : Power through knowledge. And as Zak says when you discover Matter transmission :
"I still have it, actually" ...
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Old June 19, 2000, 10:01   #3
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I think I'd want to live in either Morganite or Peacekeeper territory. Zakky'd probably try to do some experiment on me, Deidre's too tree-crazy, Miriam's insane, Yang doesn't care a whit for his subjects, and I couldn't adapt to the spartan lifestyle. I'm more of an Athens kinda guy.

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Old June 19, 2000, 10:06   #4
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As a research student and a science graduate, with a future career that will more than likely lie in research, and strong scientific/atheistic leanings, it wouldn't be too much of a surprise to learn that if I were to join a faction, it would certainly be the University.
 
Old June 19, 2000, 10:12   #5
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Morgan. Wasn't the excuse for the size limit of 4 before Hab Complexes, "Creature comforts at a premium"? Sounds good to me!

Peacekeeper would come next though. Of course, when I'm a leader I'm not caring too much about the civilians. As long as they don't drone on me.

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Old June 19, 2000, 10:18   #6
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::what meaning:: if this game were real.

::is not real?::




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Old June 19, 2000, 14:56   #7
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I have a pretty easy time existing in restrictive societies, and find that in several situations (all-girl boarding school, one year's compulsory military service, European fencing academy) I have been able to adapt and eventually succeed. (I was made a house prefect, an NCO sergeant, and wasn't picked on too often to be the demo dummy.)

I think Yang's Hive is something similar - if you can learn the ropes and adapt properly, you could rise to a godly position. True, this isn't in keeping with socialist teachings, but then again Yang's faction is at best a very distant subversion of the socialist rationale.

"Give me a good leader, and I will follow them to the ends of the earth."

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Old June 20, 2000, 00:41   #8
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As much as I would like to run through the woods naked, I would have to say that that would get old after a while. So the Gaians are out. I'm not into money or power too much either. That leaves out Morgan and Yang etc... I'm not religious although I enjoy pretending to be. That leaves out my favorite faction to play (Believers). I still can't figure out superstring theory so I think I would not do well in the UoP. I guess the only real factions I would even think about being in would be the Peacekeepers or the Drones. Lal does not strike me as a practical leader so I will go with the Drones.
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Old June 20, 2000, 01:53   #9
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Maybe the Believers or the Pirates. Perhaps the Angels.
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Old June 20, 2000, 06:57   #10
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I think the Cybernetic Conscience would have a certain appeal to me, even though it's less about joining a particular group, but being in a certain state of mind.
Giving up the irrational and over-emotional tendencies of my personality to become a 'better', more efficient and intellectually more capable person in a fair, stoic society that encourages and rewards such a way sounds like a good lifestyle to me. Not to mention that the term "becoming one with the machine" sounds like a very cool concept (it's not like I don't sit in front of my PC all day anyways).

While the tendency for Morganities for personal comfort is nice, I despise the "make more money, just to make more money"-attitude that puts economic growth above everything.

I suppose I could live with the University's quest for more knowledge (and enlightenment?), even if it means sacrificing some personal comfort, so that faction would be number 2 on my list.

Data Angels...sure sound cute, but is that a way of society, but just a subgroup in a given society?

Comments on the other factions: Drones -- physical work? me??? I don't think so; Miriam: I don't think I'd have much fun there as atheist; Yang: hate dictatorships and police-states; Deedee: uh-huh ; Santiago: I even flunked militairy service; PK: I'm already going nuts with the amount of bureaucracy we have in this state. Is rulership by paper-shuffling really the way to go?
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Old June 20, 2000, 08:18   #11
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Alas, I'd have to go with a custom faction.

Although the one I'm currently using has -5 Morale. (It's sort of an inside joke. If you ever played the original X-Com game then you probably know what it means to have poor troops that take forever to gain experience.)



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Old June 20, 2000, 08:24   #12
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Sinapus: Do you mean those crack troops of all armies which can't hit Floater if it is standing next to him (Yes, really! I tried to put autoshot to Floater right next to me, and all of the shots missed! That's an achievement, that is )
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Old June 21, 2000, 00:24   #13
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Bah, what were you shooting with? A laser pistol? Slap a Heavy Plasma on every guy, and you'll never fail to bag your man.(Hell, in Cydonia, I once killed three aliens with one turn of autoshot!)

Anyway, back to the topic.

I respect Santiago, but the Pirates seem more my style lately. I'd take vacations in Morgan terrritory.

But Marr is the one I understand the most. Hell yah, I want to be a god! Why would I play SMAC if I didn't?
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Old June 21, 2000, 00:34   #14
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quote:

Originally posted by Stefu on 06-20-2000 08:24 AM
Sinapus: Do you mean those crack troops of all armies which can't hit Floater if it is standing next to him (Yes, really! I tried to put autoshot to Floater right next to me, and all of the shots missed! That's an achievement, that is )


Oddly enough, I found snap shots were better than aimed shots for some reason.

That and the fact that morale affects psi combat neatly reflects the ways you can get clobbered by Sectoids and Ethereals.

Through playtesting I've found the units stay at very green unless you happen to have Power/Command Center/Bioenhancement Center. Then they may go up to Disciplined, but I think you still need a Children's Creche to move it up that far.

I'm just glad X-Com Apocalypse has training centers in bases so you can leave your worst troops at home and hope they become somewhat accurate later on.


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Old July 19, 2000, 11:55   #15
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OK lets look at each faction:
Hive : Be ruled by a meglomanical dictator-- I don't think so
Believers : Religion is OK, but I wouldn;t want to live in a society where it was the only thing - No
Spartans : Less objectionable than the above two, but I am not the military type

The other factions would be OK
Morganites : Being ricgh is good, but I am sure there is corporate backstabbing in a society that values money over everyting else
PKs : Good society - nice place to live
Gains : As someone else said, I would choose them if I could be Lady Diedre's lover. OK otherwise
Univ : My first choice

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Old July 27, 2000, 13:41   #16
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I bet that I would like to be either in the University, with the Morganites or Peacekeepers.
Since.
1. I'm not into fighting in a war (Spartans)
2. I'm not really a fanatic (Believers)
3. I don't want to lose my freedom (Hive)
4. I don't really feel like preserving planet at all costs (Gaians)

1. Peackeepers: A good lifestyle like good ol' America
2. Morganites: I am ambitious to make money
3. University: I like to research things and acquire knowledge.
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Old July 28, 2000, 17:49   #17
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My thoughts one by one(of the original 7 factions...the new ones seem to me to be extensions of these anyways so I don't really have strong opinions about them):
University- a life of intellectual knowledge and a rational, academic society. Now, who wouldn't be into that?
Gaians- Running around naked all day and living in trees could be fun. Of course you'd have to have the right body for it.
Peacekeepers- Creature comforts and liberal social policies...they could do worse.
Morganites- I have no problem with making money, but I want to be able to enjoy my life, not go around and collect wealth just for the sake of having wealth.
Hive- lets see: brutal sadistic dictator who wants to control every minute of every day of my life...um...no
Spartans- me in the military? not in this lifetime...(I believe that's the whole point)
Believers- A life of living totally by the Bible...how is that even possible when half the stuff contradicts the other half? To add insult to Inquisition, Miriam is un-"believably" annoying.
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Old July 29, 2000, 00:15   #18
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Get ready for a long post!

Call me a card-carrying Gaian. And no, I'm not particularly keen on either running naked through the trees or forming a tryst with Lady D.

I would rate humans' warlike tendancies and degradation of the environment as two of the most pressing challenges ahead of us all. The Gaians are eco-friendly and (allegedly!) pacifist.

Many people have too narrow a view of the Gaians or the Greens. You don't have to chain yourself to an old-growth tree to be one. The only requirement is to realise how profoundly our actions can affect the environment. Careful consideration towards minimizing eco-damage will inevitably follow. This may include political activism but it should start with the example we set in each of our own daily lives.

What other faction comes close?

The "Morganites" have the upper hand these days but the tendancy towards conspicuous consuption and non-elected corporation governance must be fought.

The "UoP" is also a successful faction in our own world. One of our more pressing problems is the ability of scientific research to outstrip our ability to come to a consensus on what is ethical not to mention what is environmentally safe. Sure there are lab animals but the biggest guinea pigs are often ourselves.

I include all fundamentalists, not just the Christian ones, as Believers. Spirituality can be both important and deeply rewarding. But blindly obeying rules for the sake of rules is not productive. Our own ability to think independently must never be short-circuted by power-hungry leaders.

The Spartans are perhaps my least favourite faction. I'm not impressed by the idea that problems must be addressed by a military solution. Nor do I see the glorification of war as a sign of a healthy society. The record of governance of various military juntas in various countries around the world is the final nail in the coffin.

Yang has style and an interesting personal philosophy. His quotes are often the best in the game. Nonetheless, to me he represents a police state dictatorship where dissention is simply not tolerated. Critical and independent thinking should be encouraged, not shunned.

Finally, PK. This faction has should have some good aspects to it, but I find Lal to be the least charismatic of any of the original seven leaders. Perhaps they would be my second choice.
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Old August 11, 2000, 18:13   #19
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Well, having done a degree in astrophysics and maths, I guess my obvious place would be in the University .

They'd be high on my list, though the Data Angels would be my second(?) choice. I'm not into dogma, and a society of 'creative free-thinkers' (from the Firaxis site) sounds pretty fun. I'm not into hacking (these days, anyway) or causing mayhem, but life would be forever interesting. (And I must admit, I find Roze more intoxicating than Deirdre.. )

The Spartans would be hovering around as well. No, I would be shot after my first day in the army. However as a civilian on Chiron, I'd be reassured by being surrounded by a bunch of highly trained gun-nuts. Mindworms sound nasty, no?


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Old August 12, 2000, 13:53   #20
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Old August 12, 2000, 22:20   #21
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Oooh! This again. I wonder if my optins have changed since last time. Let's find out...

Worst --> Best

Manifold Caretakers - Well, they're in a really lousy situation. The entire faction is based around preventing Trancendence. They don't even have an ideology!

Cult of Planet - If the whole thing wasn't a sham (using "Planet says so" as an excuse to do whatever Cha Dawn wants), then this might not be so bad. But this seems like more intolerant then Yang! I think not.

Human Hive - Too bad Yang's a nutcase. Survival of the species is important, but Yang's ways are just going too far.

Spartan Federation - I'm not a military guy, and it seems like anyone that's not in the forces would be looked down upon in this faction.

Peacekeeping Forces - This society is so filled with red tape, it's amazing they can decide on the name for their fist base, let alone have a faction.

Pirates - I get seasick . Sounds fun though.

Manifold Usurpers - They want to become Gods. Wow, what a goal! Too bad the ideology of the faction is focused on killing.

The Lord's Believers - I'm semi-religious myself, and I can understand that these people would be happy knowing they are in the care of God, but I fear the whole "God says so" thing similar to the Cult would cause problems.

Morgan Industries - All those luxuries are sure appealing, but the backstabing and general greed of the people must make them feel rather hollow inside.

Data Angels - I could probably do this, but they're probably a high-security faction, and that would become really bothersome. Everyone's a suspect!

Stepdaughters of Gaia - They have a very good point, but they take it too far. There is nothing wrong with consuming renewable resources - they can come back! Too extremist.

Cybernetic Consciousness - I'll bet some of your are suprised this didn't get dropped before now! What I like about these people is the fact that if I had a better idea then someone above me, they would use mine simply because it is better, and not care about the source. Still, giving up half of myself (the lesser half, however) seems rather painful, although it wouldn't hurt afterwords.

University of Planet - Ivory tower intellects. Gotta love it.

Free Drones - Yes, this is my #1 pick. They have the rights given by the Peacekeepers with the comforts of Morgan.
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Old August 13, 2000, 00:32   #22
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Hehe, got the exam results through on Thursday, so I am "joining the University".

Sorry, couldn't resist.
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Old August 22, 2000, 14:56   #23
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Yang: Could be fun to lead, if you don't have to actually become the insane Yang.

Miriam: Might be fun to be considered a prophet by millions of fanatics. Would build a raft out of fungus and risk the high seas if i woke up one morning as one of her subjects though.

Morgan: Would be fun to be the CEO and probably a phat place to work.

The Lady: One of my top choices. It seems to me they would build a harmonious paradise.

Lal: Love play as him in a long game on huge planet, but would not want to travel all the way from Earth and not try something radically different.

Santiago: It seems to me that her military mentallity is too short sighted, and that life would be pretty sh***y after conquest.

Zak: I love the idea of research, and it might be fun to lead, but the "unethical" part means I might be cut up just to see what how my insides look.

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Old August 22, 2000, 18:03   #24
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Massively incompetent multi post.
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Old August 22, 2000, 18:07   #25
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Massively incompetent multi post.
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Old August 22, 2000, 18:09   #26
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Massively incompetent multi post.
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Old August 22, 2000, 18:11   #27
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You get the idea.
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Old August 22, 2000, 19:24   #28
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I wonder how our mindsets would change if we really were 4.3 light years away from home, on a Planet that, although unforgivingly hostile in certain ways, we're already bloody lucky to happen across anyway.

I wonder how long it would take us to accept the need to kill actual animals for food. Not very long, I'd estimate - after worrying briefly about my nails and hygiene, I was skinning rabbits on military camp within a couple of days.

How long would it take for us to accept a need to kill humans? A bit extreme, perhaps, but there are seven factions on a world with no precursors to look to, no guidelines they have to follow, and seven different visions of the best path to survival and flourishing.

I've fired rifles and guns at targets and tin cans, but I've never actually fired at a live creature, or been shot at myself. I think I'd be able to do it, cerebrally and without hesitation if I had to, but that's just a peacetime estimation. Actually behind the gun I'd be different... but I estimate I'd be able to kill, in desperate situations, within a short time if I had to.

However, assuming that I could learn eventually to heft weaponry and/or fire rounds at people and perform well under fire, how long would it take for my entire mindset to change from an individual to a part of a whole?

Disease and poisons have killed off more soldiers throughout history than the fighting casualties of all the battles combined. Could I look at myself one day and believe myself to be an insignificantly small part of something greater? A society that will last after my death? A society unperturbed by my birth, and which would recover unsurprisingly quickly with my demise? If I were shot in the field and nobody came to rescue me, because the logistics were bad (two sound men to stretcher a wounded back to base), how long would I need to be able to overcome my pain and understand or maybe even sympathise with the society at war who cannot come to my individual aid?

Could I, instead of changing ideological allegiance (for example) from a capitalist to a communist or political allegiance from imperialist to socialist, could I actually change my entire concept of myself to be "one with many" instead of "one apart from many"? In other words, could I embrace the logistically-sound rationale of surrendering my own goals, in order to work towards a goal to aid others besides me?

It has been tried before on Earth, and failed. Always, the problem has been that of leadership... if everybody does as they're told and obeys the leader, we are putting all our social eggs in one big basket, and if that leader directs our efforts in the wrong direction, willfully or otherwise, then we are wasting effort on a monumental scale.

If you have played a game called System Shock II, you'll have a vague idea of the distinction I am drawing. I have always been interested by the western resistance to collectivism and fear of loss of individuality. The Hive, with its assimilation and dictatorship, is more or less the most "evil" of all the factions, including the Progenitor races. Loosely based on the Chinese race, which (I gather) has at present fallen somewhat out of favor with politicians and humanitarians around the world, I wonder whether or not a different viewpoint needs to be entertained before the Hive can be understood.

What if the somewhat more oriental social view could be entertained, that servitude is not always bondage? That humility is not always humiliation? That the western credo of "individual" and "human rights" might not be a fundamental cornerstone in the history of human evolution?

Yang's character is a merciless tyrant and a villain, both in the game and in the story (Journey to Alpha Centauri). That's partially because, I believe, he was written by a westerner. In actuality, I hold his in-game voiceovers to be more "true" to his nature: he is nihilistic, but not malevolently so. He can be brutal, but not maliciously so. He can be inhumane, but does so merely intending to dispel what he views as quaint overdelicacy, to foster a new approach to a new world.

Those were all brain-ticklers about the character of Yang and what Firaxis might possibly have intended as undertones and implicities. However, these are what I personally think the character of Yang might be like:

I do not think he is a hypocrite. I think he is rightly feared by many because his view of humanity is a rather inhumane one (whatever that word may actually mean... it is used almost as often as the meaningless word "unnatural" to express disapproval), but that nihilism extends to himself as well. If he is injured in a battle where his men are quitting the field, I do not think he is the type to curse and gnash his teeth and yelp for aid like a coward. Likewise, he would be happy enough to enter the Recycling Tanks at the end of his life, and rejoin his chemicals thus.

I do not think that the Chairman believes himself to be an ultimate power. I think it is a monstrous caricaturization to make him into a brutal Communist thug who delights in causing others pain. I interpret his indoctrinations as an effort to pass a less finicky, more logically sound method of society onto others, and if they can assume his position with equal ability, he would certainly admit to this... at least, to himself.

He does not sympathize with certain emotions that others feel, especially if they feel revulsion for something "morally" disturbing. The idea of combining human tissues, post mortem, in a communal Recycling Tank, may be repulsive to some. Not to the Chairman: his view is very much one of "materials, not manners". I would also imagine he would take a very dim view of all complaints about this.

He takes a view that "one's opinion is only as good as one's knowledge". ie Freedom of Speech is secondary to merit. Understandably, America would probably take extreme issue with this sentiment, perhaps rightly so. I do believe that the Chairman is not a Pol Pot - he has an abiding respect for the educated and the intelligentsia... after all, according to his history, he is one of them himself.

As I said in my earlier (shorter!) post, I think of the Hive as being a society rather akin to a meritocracy, but with considerably different methods of judgement than we know today. I do NOT believe that Yang is a sadist, a Commie, or even a "control freak" as the Western conception of this goes. He loves control, and wishes that everybody else too would love control as much as he does. Then, when the individuals have mastered control over themselves, they can apply themselves more selflessly to the needs of the society as a whole.

*bats chirp* *owls hoot*

*Allie goes home now*

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