December 20, 2002, 22:28
|
#1
|
King
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,920
|
What if the American Revolution failed?
I'm curious what people think would have been the end result if the British managed to quash the rebellion in the American colonies. Would the US still exist exactly as it does today, but with a slightly later start date following another revolution? Would the US look more like Canada in being a parliamentary democracy with a peaceful separation from Britain? Is there any likelihood that more than one country would have emerged out of the original colonies? Maybe Canada would look different, what with possible changes to British colonial boundaries. How about the prospect of other country's colonies (Spain, France) in North America? Any other ideas?
|
|
|
|
December 20, 2002, 22:31
|
#2
|
Deity
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
|
Done it again.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
|
|
|
|
December 20, 2002, 22:37
|
#3
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: In Exile
Posts: 4,140
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Done it again.
|
and again if necessary
__________________
Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh
|
|
|
|
December 20, 2002, 22:45
|
#4
|
King
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
|
We would all be living in a worker's paradise right now.
Heh, heh, merely joshing, just a bit of Commie humor for you all. If it failed eventually we would have been annexed by Canada.
__________________
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
December 20, 2002, 22:46
|
#5
|
King
Local Time: 05:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by SlowwHand
Done it again.
|
And this time taking Canada.
|
|
|
|
December 20, 2002, 22:51
|
#6
|
Deity
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
|
Annexed by Canada.  Thanks. Thanks a lot.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:02
|
#7
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 13:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:12
|
#8
|
King
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,015
|
im really tired of alternate history. what if? what if?
there are endless outcomes for any situation...
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:14
|
#9
|
Warlord
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 234
|
I would restart Colonization and try again, mabe with a different mother country.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:16
|
#10
|
Emperor
Local Time: 13:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 3,521
|
Ahhh but there's always one constant. The anti-american trolls. Wouldn't be the same without 'em.
__________________
"Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson
“In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:27
|
#11
|
Prince
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: between a rock and a hard place
Posts: 998
|
It would have indeed happened later, but then hopefully the US wouldn't have become such an overly massive, isolated and powerful country so soon.  Who knows?
__________________
DULCE BELLUM INEXPERTIS
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 01:40
|
#12
|
Deity
Local Time: 06:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: Bohol
Posts: 13,381
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by jdd2007
there are endless outcomes for any situation...
|
Right.
A lot would depend upon what point the rebellion failed. What would have happened if the British had captured Sam Adams and John Hancock in 1775 at Concord? The chances would have then been much greater for resurrecting the rebellion than if Washington's army had been defeated in detail at New York. Still later, a British victory after the French had intervened would have doomed any future American rebellion. It was that intervention by the French that bankrupted their country and led directly to the French Revolution.
What if, after the rebellion failed, King George and Lord North had started recognizing the colonlists' Rights of Englishmen? Then, there would have been enough political tender to re-kindle a second rebellion.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 02:10
|
#13
|
King
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,015
|
they would have revolted again at a later time, during the napoleanic wars.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 02:42
|
#14
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
|
Yea. Napoleonic wars was the time to revolt for most of the Americas.
we wouldn't let those british bastards rule us forever.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 03:47
|
#15
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
The UK would eventually move its capitol to New York (or Philidelphia, etc.).
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 06:23
|
#16
|
Deity
Local Time: 14:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
|
If the American revolt failed, there may not have been Napoleonic wars.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 06:25
|
#17
|
Deity
Local Time: 14:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Seouenaca, Cantium
Posts: 12,426
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Ramo
The UK would eventually move its capitol to New York (or Philidelphia, etc.).
|
I thought the centre of government was already moved to Pennsylvania Avenue.
__________________
"Everybody knows you never go full retard. You went full retard man. Never go full retard"
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 06:31
|
#18
|
King
Local Time: 05:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Aptos, CA
Posts: 2,596
|
If there was no American Revolution, there may have been no large-scale immigration by the Irish, Italians or other Europeans, let alone the Chinese. Immigration may have been limited primarily to the English.
__________________
http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 08:24
|
#19
|
Emperor
Local Time: 16:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
|
OMG, I am just playing a game of colonization, and guess what? I am not doing so good. Figures.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 08:28
|
#20
|
Settler
Local Time: 15:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
well it didnt so you can thank the french again
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 08:35
|
#21
|
Emperor
Local Time: 16:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
|
yes it did  and the french will join my side if I accumulate something like 5000 Liberty bells. This is ****ing impossible.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 08:36
|
#22
|
Settler
Local Time: 05:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Lovely Oregon
Posts: 5
|
I think there's a good chance that if the Revolution didn't occur when it did the eventual countries that came to occupy North America would be very different.
Just think for example of what happens if the Brits make significant concessions to the colonists in '73 and '74. The generation of great American statesmen is thus coopted into the Brit camp (the colonial governors Jefferson and Hamilton eventually hang Adams for treason). A politically conservative America watches the French Revolution in horror and draws even closer to Britain.
Perhaps the you get a Civil War of the American South against the Northeast and Britain, and as the South is crushed the North imposes Reconstruction on the South as a condition for being readmitted to the Commonwealth -- something without which the South would merely become a vast, underdeveloped, rural wasteland.
__________________
It is much easier to be critical than to be correct. Benjamin Disraeli
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 09:08
|
#23
|
Settler
Local Time: 15:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
Only have one port city. You will win every time
Defend it with everything you have and be focused on one port city. That way you won;t stretch your army AT ALL
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 14:37
|
#24
|
King
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,920
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Ned
If there was no American Revolution, there may have been no large-scale immigration by the Irish, Italians or other Europeans, let alone the Chinese. Immigration may have been limited primarily to the English.
|
I don't think that's necessarily true. Are you assuming that there would never be an independent country (or countries) from the British colonies? I mean, Canada gained its independence in 1867 and we've had waves of immigration nearly on par (on a per capita basis) as those of the US.
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 14:54
|
#25
|
Prince
Local Time: 07:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: UT, Austin - The live music capital of the world
Posts: 884
|
Well, if a USA would have been formed eventually, either by later revolution or by peaceful seccession, it would be much, much different, most likely not a world power. America would probably resemble Canada very closely, in population and society, as, while under British control for an extended period, mass open-door imigration would not have happened. Depending on when the US finally comes into being, it would probably only stretch from the Atlantic to the Mississippi; the lousianna purchase not coming into its possession, nor the significant land gains made in the Mexican-American war.
History, no matter how the US turns out at a later date, would definately be much, much different. The effect the US has had on the world has been immense, and by changing America you are changing that effect.
Kman
|
|
|
|
December 21, 2002, 17:26
|
#26
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 4,264
|
I'm surprised that Stefu hasn't been here to recommend this book, which is a 1990-ish college history textbook set in a world in which the British won the Battle of Saratoga.
|
|
|
|
December 22, 2002, 02:46
|
#27
|
King
Local Time: 09:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Kabul, baby!
Posts: 2,876
|
Can I play?
1. Slavery in North America would have been abolished earlier
2. Texas would be an independent nation
3. Without a US to sell it to, Napoleon would have kept Louisiana; without the financing that the Louisiana Purchase provided him, his warmongering in Europe would have been curtailed (but I'm not sure what that means; it's been years since I've known that history well)
4. In all likelihood, no on would ever have heard of Washington Irving, Edgar Allen Poe, Nathaniel Hawthorne, Herman Melville, Ralph Waldo Emerson, or Henry David Thoreau
BTW, thanks for the book rec JohnT; it looks interesting.
__________________
"If crime fighters fight crime, and firefighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight?"— George Carlin
|
|
|
|
December 22, 2002, 02:49
|
#28
|
King
Local Time: 07:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: United States of America
Posts: 2,306
|
If the American Revolution had failed, we'd all be speaking English right now, dammit!
Gatekeeper
__________________
"I may not agree with what you have to say, but I'll die defending your right to say it." — Voltaire
"Wheresoever you go, go with all your heart." — Confucius
|
|
|
|
December 22, 2002, 05:31
|
#29
|
Emperor
Local Time: 13:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: A real Master of CTP-PBEM - together with all the others.....
Posts: 6,303
|
__________________
First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win.
Gandhi
|
|
|
|
December 22, 2002, 05:34
|
#30
|
Emperor
Local Time: 15:01
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Posts: 5,301
|
Quote:
|
I'm surprised that Stefu hasn't been here to recommend this book, which is a 1990-ish college history textbook set in a world in which the British won the Battle of Saratoga.
|
I meant to, but then I sort of forgot about it.
__________________
"Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
"That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:01.
|
|