It is a war against Islam! (and i have nothing to do today)

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
EDIT: And can we agree to stop this discussion? It's not as if we're getting anywhere, and I have ebtter things to do with my time. You probably do as well...

Yup.

[notyoueither]

nm

[GeneralTacticus]

OK now for a serious post. Can you post a credible link with evidence that Al Quaeda was not responsible for the attacks?

No. They probably were responsible, to some extent; they've certainly never denied it. However, I still think that the US government had some kind of involvement in it, because if they didn't, then they are probably the biggest idiots the world has ever seen.

[GeneralTacticus]

/Edit. But that seems to include civilian victims of the Nazis.

That would rather skew the results, I'd imagine...

[notyoueither]

No bigger idiots than the French and British (and Soviets) of the late 1930s.

OK. I'll stop now...

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


That would rather skew the results, I'd imagine...

Yup. 13 of the 61 million happened during the war.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus


No. They probably were responsible, to some extent; they've certainly never denied it. However, I still think that the US government had some kind of involvement in it, because if they didn't, then they are probably the biggest idiots the world has ever seen.

Point taken. We had Clinton who sucked at foreign policy, (letting Bin Ladin, Milosevic, and Aidid run amok) and then we had Bush, who, although he might not be stupid, certainly is not the sharpest President we've ever had. We had about 7 departments related to immigration and watching terrorists, and Bush added yet another... I'd go with the "idiots" option.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GeneralTacticus




How so? Because I actually know some of the **** the US government has gotten up to in the past, and I'm not dissmissing the possibility that they're still doing it?

Yeah? How does spraying Herbicide that may or may not cause cancer AT ALL compare to deliberately slaughtering thousands of civilians plus the upper echelons of the Navy?

Depleted Uranium complaints are a joke.

Nice tactic, lump everyone who
questions the US government in with gullible idiots who believe in UFOs.

Only those who make Ludricous claims.

Well, that would be true if the US government gave jack about fighting terrorism. If they did, it wouldn't be that hard, considering that some of the world's worst terrorists currently live in the US or in their allies, and the US runs the world's biggest terrorist training camp at Fort Bennings.

Believe it or not, the School of the Americas operates a tiny bit differently than in, oh, say, the Kissinger era.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Yup. 13 of the 61 million happened during the war.

Yes, but Stalin did some very nasty things to his own people during the war. For instance he executed soldiers who retreated, or even those who escaped from POW camps or who managed to survive units destroyed in the early days of Barabrosa. He also executed ordered the execution of citizens who didn't do enough to assist the war effort. Stalin is probably responsible for one third to one half of Russia's non-combat casulties of WW2.

[Heresson]

Originally posted by Edan
Hmm, a simmilar zogby poll taken recently of Arab-Americans found that about 60 or 70% believe that the war is on terrorism and not islam.

Well, most or at least many of Arab-Americans are Christians I think.. All the Lebaneese...

{quote]
I'd argue that Israel was in the process of letting the West Bank and Gaza spin off (like the Sovs with you Baltics) When the Palestinians decided to start blowing up school buses and clubs full of teenagers.
[/quote]

If You don't want to threadjack, stop saying things like that.
From when are they occupying those grounds? Why is this process so slow? Why didn;t they want to leave all the Palestinian grounds (not minding that entire Israel is Palestinian ground), and they were still creating their settlements on occupied areas? And didn't Sharon wish to provoke this attack by entering sacred Muslim place?

Sept 11, 1683: Muslim Army was defeated by the Holy Roman Empire lead by John Sobieski of Poland outside Vienna.

By catholic allies, not by HRE. Polish input was the biggest here.

Perhaps it is the Christians who should know how to quit. Last I saw, Istabul (sorry Constantinople ) was still in Muslim hands.

And the fact that the Muslims got to Vienna in 1600s says something about the victories, or lack thereof, of the Christians .

I also remember something about sacking Rome as well

The fact is that everywhere that today Muslims live, Christians were earlier. And in all the countries from Marocco to Iraq they were a majority once, a definite majority from Tunisia to Syria, except for Jews.
While Christians were mostly expanding on coast of pagans, Muslims - on cost of Christians.

---
Tacitius,
please define what are You refering to precisely for your own sake. Your will to free the communists (or "communists") of Eastern Europe of blame is silly.

Not quite. Soviet leaders afterwards were hardly similar to Stalin; they were dictators, obviously, but they were hardly genocidal maniacs. Stalin's atrocities were a product of him personally; the West's atrocities have continued regardless of who has been in power.

They weren't genocial maniacs, as well as western politicians never were. However, interventions in Hungary,
Tchechoslovakia and Afghanistan show that if they had to, they could use similar means. I think that probably over 200 000 died in Afghanistan (it's not in Europe, but by "Europeans".

Stalin is probably responsible for one third to one half of Russia's non-combat casulties of WW2.

I beg You, don't mix terms. Soviets... Russians...

[Mr. President]

the West's atrocities have continued regardless of who has been in power.

Every country commits atrocities. Get over it.

The powerful do as they please, whether they be Christian or Jew or Muslim or Hindu or Zeus-followers or rock-worshippers. Get over it.