Winning at Monarch level

[shclo]

I recently attempted my first forray into Monarch level. I was surprised to find that I was able to dominate the map, but got spanked on technology. All other civs were pumping out SS parts as I was just breaking into the modern age. The other civs seemed pretty willing to trade technology for money early on, but all became tight-lipped later and I couldn't ever get technologies off of them. Has anyone ever won the space race at Monarch or above? How did you do it?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I'm with you on the difficulty of Monarch level! On CivII the difference between Prince and King was minimal. Now it makes a considerable difference, or seems to to me... and the agression! Oy vey!

Then again, a lot of things about CivIII confound me, so perhaps I should just shut up.

[Inverse Icarus]

Anything below Prince, the AI cheats IN YOUR FAVOR.
Prince, the AI doesnt cheat at all.
Monarch and Above: the AI cheats in IT'S FAVOR

i play monarch because the AI gets a little boost it needs, and i don't NOTICE the cheating (too much). when i play emperor or deity, i can just SEE their overproduction.

[Wizard55]

I have won Space race 3 times in Monarch.
Twice playing as the Romans and once as the Americans.

What worked for me was getting to Democracy as fast as I could, then build up a good bankroll quickly. Set science at 70 % and leave it there. Yes you get behind in the tech race when building up your bank, but later on I caught the AI in 30 to 35 turns. I also had 1GL from an earlier war stashed in my capitol to rush space parts. So if plan to win by Space Race I save the GL for this reason.

[alva]

eugh Uber, it's regent, not prince

shclo, why don't you post a save game, and let us see how we can (perhaps) improve your game, or give you a couple of hints.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Hmmm, what really confounded me was the propensity of the other civs to trade science advances with each other but NOT with me. What to do about that? (especially in the ancient world)

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by alva
eugh Uber, it's regent, not prince

shclo, why don't you post a save game, and let us see how we can (perhaps) improve your game, or give you a couple of hints.

[alva]

Hmmm, what really confounded me was the propensity of the other civs to trade science advances with each other but NOT with me. What to do about that? (especially in the ancient world)

Have you broken any deals??
Do you have something to give in return? gold,luxuries...

[Combat Ingrid]

The AI civs trade more and more among themselves on the higher difficulties.
The editor gives the AI to AI trade rates from 110 on chieftain to 160 on deity. Probably the main reason (besides the cheating) why you get behind so quickly on higher levels.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by alva

Have you broken any deals??
Do you have something to give in return? gold,luxuries...

Well... I have to be honest, I moved straight up to Monarch after one amazing Regent game as the Aztecs where I KICKED ASS!!! So maybe it was too hasty a switch.

I'm working on Regent now as a variety of different civs, learning the complexities of the game, so I probably won't Monarch again for a while... I must perfect my technique and once again become a "Zen Master of Civ"

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by Wizard55
I also had 3 GL's from earlier wars stashed in my capitol to rush space parts. So if you plan to win by Space Race it is best to save your GL's for this reason.

How did you get more than one GL at a time?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
The AI civs trade more and more among themselves on the higher difficulties.
The editor gives the AI to AI trade rates from 110 on chieftain to 160 on deity. Probably the main reason (besides the cheating) why you get behind so quickly on higher levels.

What do you mean when you say "cheating"? It seemed on Monarch level that the AI would just "catch the other civs up" to my civ's science level. Does it do this? I know it did on CivII, but I'm unsure about CivIII.

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth What do you mean when you say "cheating"? It seemed on Monarch level that the AI would just "catch the other civs up" to my civ's science level. Does it do this? I know it did on CivII, but I'm unsure about CivIII.

On monarch, science and production is 10% cheaper for the AI. On emperor and deity, it's reduced by 20% and 40%, respectively. That together with the higher tendency to only trade techs with other AI civs makes it difficult for the human player to keep up in science.

[Drachen]

These are some of my observations after having played perhaps a dozen games at emperor level. I like to pick a civilization and play once at monarch and then move on to emperor. One way to win is to play as a builder with, Pangaea, sedentary barbarians, temperate, and 4 billion years. Scientific/industrious is my favorite trait set. I think you may have success with the Persians on small maps and the Ottomans on large maps. Huge maps tend to lead to a more peaceful game which I like because it's more difficult than just smashing the less than skillful artificial intelligence and it makes the game epic in proportion. It's okay to restart the game several times looking for a good start position when you're learning. My ideal start would have grassland, cows, luxury, river, some hills, and an edge position without blocks to speedy expansion. With any luck you will be able to find/develop a strong producing center for your Second City. Max research wheel, alphabet, writing... start Palace in Second City... literature... switch Palace to Great Library. I usually don't build great wonders in my First City as it hurts too much if you don't get them, i.e., you can't switch back to palace and try for another Wonder. Find luxuries and resources and place cities to control them. Trade tech, non strategic maps, and resources/luxuries with other civilizations as often as you can. It's tedious but I will often contact every other player almost every turn to track where they're at and make sure I don't miss trading opportunities which will lead them to have a good opinion of me. Embassies will help keep them happy with you as well. Give in to their blackmail in the early game...stay out of wars. If you must go to war then buy alliances and let them smash each other. Control choke points and block access to your turf with troops after which you can make them happy with a right of passage agreement they won't be able use. Research what the others are not since the Great Library will give you what they get. Use your industrious workers to build a defensive road network, improve cities, and connect resources. Here are a couple of ways to get must have recourses outside of going to war. You can place a city next to a border resource two squares out from a rival's city and they won't even realize you swipped it. Trade for it. One time I chose to trade Caesar Nationalism in order to get Iron for my railroads...it ticked me off but hey...I'm a peaceful guy. Place defensive units in each city and build an adequate Cavalry for counter strikes. I like to go for the Sistine chapel or J.S. Bach’s for happiness and then Leonardo's Workshop for cheap unit upgrades. Sell technologies for as much tech and gold per turn as the highest bidder can offer and then sell it to the others for less within the same turn. When you enter new ages the scientific trait will give you scientific advances to sell and this will give you the money you need to keep your research high. Build production and happiness improvements in your cities even when the Military advisor tells you you're weak. If you have good relations with your neighbors they will rarely attack -even if you are weaker- and if they do then your modern forces and superb commander will save the day. Smash the invading stacks with cannon/artillery and then mop up for easy victories. When I hit the industrial age I usually go for industrialization first to build factories if it won't keep me from being first to Scientific Method. The Theory of Evolution wonder can give you a significant lead at this point of the game. I usually get Atomic Theory, Electronics, and thus the Hoover Dam from it (I once got my Egyptian Golden Age this way). Careful selling of technology will allow you to max research your way to Fission and the U.N. If you've been treating your neighbor’s well you will be elected and win the game. If I have been unable to maintain great relations up to this point I will often get everybody in an alliance against my chief rival and thereby assure that they will not win the United Nations vote. Some players will tell you that a diplomatic victory is cheap but I disagree because it's difficult to maintain good relations with neighbors when playing emperor and I usually choose not to buy all my neighbors into graciousness before the vote. Furthermore, if you're the first one to the United Nations then you're probably going to be the first one to the Spaceship. This is my Emperor's sketch and I hope it helps. P.S. Deity and Multiplayer are different beasts and I don't advise using this method to try to tackle them. Cheers

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Combat Ingrid
The AI civs trade more and more among themselves on the higher difficulties.
The editor gives the AI to AI trade rates from 110 on chieftain to 160 on deity. Probably the main reason (besides the cheating) why you get behind so quickly on higher levels.

So... uh... pardon my idiocy but I have to double-check to be sure... the computer never "grants" advances to non-scientific civs just because they're behind?

[Combat Ingrid]

Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth
So... uh... pardon my idiocy but I have to double-check to be sure... the computer never "grants" advances to non-scientific civs just because they're behind?

Actually, it's rather the opposite. In most of my games, there are usually at least one or two civs that fall behind in science. Unless they find some important resources in their territory (like oil), the other civs will probably not really trade them anything and they will thus get even further behind.
No free techs!

Drachen, your strategy is very similar to the one I use at regent level. It works very well, so I'm considering moving up to monarch for a more challenging game. I'm not sure about emperor, though. I'm a lazy player and don't want to struggle too much to win. It should be a challenge but I should still be able to win most games unless I make some serious mistakes

[Drachen]

Combat Ingrid
You're already familiar with the plan so Monarch shouldn't be a problem. Watch out for Emperor though as it feels like it's tougher in PTW 1.14 than in Civ III 1.29. I don't think you'll find it a lazy win unless you choose to smite all around you with wild abandon...but that's a different game altogether...Good Luck!

[alva]

Eugh Drachen, could you edit your previous post to paragraph it a little. It's almost imopossible to read as it is now
btw, if you go up a level, go for less civ's, this will make it easier.

[Drachen]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by alva
Eugh Drachen, could you edit your previous post to paragraph it a little. It's almost imopossible to read as it is now
I am pleased to announce from all of us at Drachen productions that we stand behind our products and are working on the various problems with our sketch in order to make it a fully functioning monograph. Surely you understand that the holiday rush forced us to release our product in Beta and we wish to assure you that a Patch will be made available shortly.

Perhaps you would enjoy some of these fine Apolyton products while you are waiting…

The Virtues of being Industrious.... by Velociryx (23-05-2002)
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...981#post973981
How science works and why there IS a 4 turn cap by regoarrarr
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...368#post600368
The economics of food velocity in a Despotism by absimiliard (20-11-2001)
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...864#post615864

[FrustratedPoet]

nice one Drachen

[FrustratedPoet]

For the benefit of my good buddy alva I've decided to mod Drachen's buggy first release of his monograph

Originally posted by Drachen
These are some of my observations after having played perhaps a dozen games at emperor level. I like to pick a civilization and play once at monarch and then move on to emperor.

One way to win is to play as a builder with, Pangaea, sedentary barbarians, temperate, and 4 billion years. Scientific/industrious is my favorite trait set.
I think you may have success with the Persians on small maps and the Ottomans on large maps. Huge maps tend to lead to a more peaceful game which I like because it's more difficult than just smashing the less than skillful artificial intelligence and it makes the game epic in proportion.

It's okay to restart the game several times looking for a good start position when you're learning. My ideal start would have grassland, cows, luxury, river, some hills, and an edge position without blocks to speedy expansion.
With any luck you will be able to find/develop a strong producing center for your Second City. Max research wheel, alphabet, writing... start Palace in Second City... literature... switch Palace to Great Library. I usually don't build great wonders in my First City as it hurts too much if you don't get them, i.e., you can't switch back to palace and try for another Wonder.

Find luxuries and resources and place cities to control them. Trade tech, non strategic maps, and resources/luxuries with other civilizations as often as you can. It's tedious but I will often contact every other player almost every turn to track where they're at and make sure I don't miss trading opportunities which will lead them to have a good opinion of me. Embassies will help keep them happy with you as well. Give in to their blackmail in the early game...stay out of wars. If you must go to war then buy alliances and let them smash each other.
Control choke points and block access to your turf with troops after which you can make them happy with a right of passage agreement they won't be able use. Research what the others are not since the Great Library will give you what they get.

Use your industrious workers to build a defensive road network, improve cities, and connect resources. Here are a couple of ways to get must have recourses outside of going to war. You can place a city next to a border resource two squares out from a rival's city and they won't even realize you swipped it. Trade for it. One time I chose to trade Caesar Nationalism in order to get Iron for my railroads...it ticked me off but hey...I'm a peaceful guy.

Place defensive units in each city and build an adequate Cavalry for counter strikes. I like to go for the Sistine chapel or J.S. Bach’s for happiness and then Leonardo's Workshop for cheap unit upgrades. Sell technologies for as much tech and gold per turn as the highest bidder can offer and then sell it to the others for less within the same turn. When you enter new ages the scientific trait will give you scientific advances to sell and this will give you the money you need to keep your research high.

Build production and happiness improvements in your cities even when the Military advisor tells you you're weak. If you have good relations with your neighbors they will rarely attack -even if you are weaker- and if they do then your modern forces and superb commander will save the day. Smash the invading stacks with cannon/artillery and then mop up for easy victories.

When I hit the industrial age I usually go for industrialization first to build factories if it won't keep me from being first to Scientific Method. The Theory of Evolution wonder can give you a significant lead at this point of the game. I usually get Atomic Theory, Electronics, and thus the Hoover Dam from it (I once got my Egyptian Golden Age this way). Careful selling of technology will allow you to max research your way to Fission and the U.N.
If you've been treating your neighbor’s well you will be elected and win the game. If I have been unable to maintain great relations up to this point I will often get everybody in an alliance against my chief rival and thereby assure that they will not win the United Nations vote.

Some players will tell you that a diplomatic victory is cheap but I disagree because it's difficult to maintain good relations with neighbors when playing emperor and I usually choose not to buy all my neighbors into graciousness before the vote. Furthermore, if you're the first one to the United Nations then you're probably going to be the first one to the Spaceship. This is my Emperor's sketch and I hope it helps.

P.S. Deity and Multiplayer are different beasts and I don't advise using this method to try to tackle them.

Cheers

[Drachen]

FrustratedPoet;
“For the benefit of my good buddy Alva I've decided to mod Drachen's buggy first release of his monograph ”

Back from the holidays only to find another fine effort from Candle’Bre. There’s always room at Drachen productions for excellent mods and I thank you for your time.

Alva;
“Eugh Drachen, could you edit your previous post to paragraph it a little. It's almost impossible to read as it is now ”

Hey Alva, joking aside, as you can see from FrustratedPoet’s “mod” the material does not divide well into paragraphs. It would be better presented as a series of bulleted points.

I wanted to give newbies a recipe for winning at emperor level as a builder and that is why I included so many basic concepts in a sequential format. It was my hope that somebody starting the game and following this printed recipe would be able to win at Monarch or Emperor as long as they were familiar with the basics of game play. I also wanted to do it informally and so I just put on my headset and spoke into my Dictation program ending up with a flow of consciousness piece rather than a monograph.

Looking back over the piece now I concede that a little bit more information would have been helpful. For instance, someone could perhaps think that I included all the wonders that I usually go for...which is not the case. I also failed to point out that the slider on the domestic advisers screen needs to be adjusted frequently to maximize income. Finally, I just want to make it a little clearer that this is just one way to win and that there are good arguments for playing the game as a warrior e.g. getting the heroic epic early and using great leaders to construct wonders.

If any of you have hints/strategies you think would help newbies to win at Monarch and Emperor perhaps you might like to post them here as well.

I would also be interested in hearing what strategies are working in P T W 1.14 at Deity and in multiplayer.

I hope everybody's holidays have gone well… all my best.

Drachen

[DuncanK]

I'm still on Monarch Level. I win in single player about 50/50. Some trouble that I find is that the AI is expanding faster than me. I don't think there is anything that I can do to expand faster. What I do to compensate for that is conquer one or two neighbors. If I can keep the size of my military up I can usually keep atleast one strategic ally. If I can't then the world turns against me. One thing different with this new civ game is that AI really respects the size of your military. You must constantly be evaluating the size of your military in comparison to the other militaries of the world. Whenever they think they may be able to conquer you. You will stop getting trade deals and they will start declaring war on you. If you check the comparable size of your military and it says that your military is weak then you must rebuild immediately even if you have to neglect your infrastructure and wonders.

[Drachen]

Originally posted by DuncanK
Whenever they think they may be able to conquer you. You will stop getting trade deals and they will start declaring war on you. If you check the comparable size of your military and it says that your military is weak then you must rebuild immediately even if you have to neglect your infrastructure and wonders.

Hey Duncan;

I have read this opinion many times and I just have to disagree. I am occasionally attacked early on but usually not. About the only time another tribe will come after me for sure is if I have a vital resource they need or if I let them stay annoyed with me for long periods. I think it may have to do with a person’s style of play in that the AI seems much more likely to resort to war once I have done so. It may be the old “live by the sword die by the sword” thing goin on.

[David Murray]

I think it's possible to stay ahead of the computer technologically throughout most of the game (talking about Monarch).

Obviously, building the Great Library is essential. But if you can somehow manage to contact other civs before they discover each other, you can do some serious tech-swapping (send warriors/scouts in all directions). In other words, you become the "middle man" selling and trading technology between different civilizations. If you let the computers find each other first, they will form a little clique and you'll get left behind and be forced to resort to military action to stay up to date.

It's infuriating when the computer won't trade technology or luxuries with you but there is a method of avoiding this problem. Perhaps there is something about it somewhere in an old stategy thread.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by David Murray
I think it's possible to stay ahead of the computer technologically throughout most of the game (talking about Monarch).

Obviously, building the Great Library is essential. But if you can somehow manage to contact other civs before they discover each other, you can do some serious tech-swapping (send warriors/scouts in all directions). In other words, you become the "middle man" selling and trading technology between different civilizations. If you let the computers find each other first, they will form a little clique and you'll get left behind and be forced to resort to military action to stay up to date.

It's infuriating when the computer won't trade technology or luxuries with you but there is a method of avoiding this problem. Perhaps there is something about it somewhere in an old stategy thread.

This is exactly what happens to me - the computer AIs trade with each other but not me. Aren't I good enough?

I wish I knew where that thread was!

Here's another question for everyone: aside from Industrious, what is the best trait to beat the computer AI tech-trading clique? Is it Scientific or Commercial, or Expansionist? Let me know, tout le monde...

[David Murray]

I won a Monarch game last night with the Carthaginians. I think they are commerical and industrious, and they have an excellent early defensive UU. I used the strategy of finding other civs and trading tech with them, and I also crushed two of my neighbours to give myself some space to develop an empire. The whole game lasted just over five hours, standard map with eight civs. Give it a shot!

[Drachen]

I thought it might be helpful to post a zip of an old Emperor game in which Alexander leads in tech and is poised to win a diplomatic victory since everyone is an ally or at least at war with Rome. Note that Caesar is winning in points but doesn’t have a chance to win the game…serves him right for sneak attacking me! I do a lot of things differently these days but the PTW zips were too large to attach.

Cheers