Which Game is Best?

DarkCloud · September 3, 2000, 18:58

Which game is better- Civ II or Alpha Centauri
or if you like list these 'very' popular games in order of your preference:
1. Civ II
2. Alpha Centauri
3. Civ: Call to Power
4. Age of Empires II
5. Rollercoaster Tycoon
6. Railroad Tycoon
7. Sim City 3000
8. The Sims
9. Diablo II
10. Baldurs Gate
11. Command and Conquer II

Provost Harrison · September 3, 2000, 19:40

Has to be SMAC, of course. I always used to play CivII, and before that Civ. I suppose one has just really succeeded the other in turn, brought a new breath of life to the genre. But I have considered the advancements and ideas added in SMAC to make it a superior game. Although in retrospect, I would have to rank Civ/CivII along with those. Some things that people have described put me off CtP...diplomats/spies/probe teams should be about the limits of alternative warfare, I didn't care for my population been enslaved and lawyers suing my city, to be honest with you.

I also enjoy some of the RTS as well, I enjoy AoK now and again, and I have played C&C2, and enjoyed it, although I have never played the original.

I also enjoy SC3K, a nice, enjoyable, relaxing, game. But all of these come below the civ-genre game in my eyes. As for the others, I haven't played them so I couldn't comment!

Neptunus · September 4, 2000, 16:09

Nothing could match the feeling I had when I played Civ II for the first time (my first encounter with the Civ type games). It is something not easily described in words and I'm sure many of you understand pretty well what I mean.

After many many games however, winning in Civ II at deity level was far too easy (with 255 cities plus one enemy city with a population of over half a billion even the gamed crashed giving a negative score), I was visiting APOLYTON every day at work reading the news about CtP. I noticed something about SMAC but I didn't pay any attention. I was only anticipating CtP. When CtP reached the Greek Market I must have been one of the first to buy it. But when I bought it I noticed Alpha Centauri's attractive cover box and I bought it (a) because of the name "Sid Meyer" and (b) as I thought it would be a "natural" scenario following Civ II.

After installation I eagerly loaded CtP... God! THE dissapointment !!! (Since its launch I've played only three games up to 2100 AD approximately)

After 50 or so turns I quit CtP and loaded SMAC... The colours, the "atmosphere", the sound, the plot, the characters, the quotations, the sci-fi technologies and the texts following each one and dozens of other factors were enough for me to realize that Sid's signature is more than enough to ensure endless hours of purely exhilarating gameplay.

Now, my directory in which I store the last turns of all games I've played (usually just before transcendence) contains 238 SMAC and SMAX games...

Age of Empires and Age of Kings is just cute little games. I enjoy playing with these but they make me feel anxiety...

C&C... too macho (and I must say a bit of childish...)

So ...
1. Long live SMAC (SMAX is a close second)
2. Thanks Civ II, I'll never forget you (its like one's first love)
3. All the rest (although I've never tried Simcity, or RT and I may not be fair towards them)

Well, that's enough... back to SMAC...

Misotu · September 4, 2000, 17:07

SMAC, no question. I haven't played any Civ game since I got into SMAC. For many reasons, but principally the social engineering, the diplomacy and the design workshop, which I didn't really like at first but which I appreciate more and more as time goes on. Wonderful game.

hexagonian · September 7, 2000, 15:28

I started with CTP as it came out shortly after I got my first computer. If you had asked me this question two months ago, I would of said CTP (not the default game that Activision created, but the MedMod version created by Wes)

Now I'm not so sure...

SMAC took a lot to get used to and I do prefer some of the features in CTP (PW, information interface, stacked combat are the main features), but the overall atmosphere in SMAC is more enjoyable. The fact that I can counterpropose with the AI is a great feature. SMAC is definitely more complex in terms of the choices you can make (social and military). And the fact that there are different factions to play makes replayability more enjoyable.

Both the AIs in SMAC and CTP are not too bright - though SMAC's AI seems to be more aggressive.

Now if the graphics were better defined in SMAC, it would get my vote - I still get a headache sometimes when plodding through factions that practically build their cities on top of each other...

Eurhetemec · September 15, 2000, 00:32

I'd divide it up like this:

I'll add some games to the list, too.

Games I love:

1. SMACX
2. MOO2 (Master of Orion 2)
2. CIV2
3. MOM (Master of Magic)

Note the draw is intentional. I loved CIV2, and it's too close to call, but I've spent insane amounts of time playing both. SMAC, especially X, has better gameplay, though.

Games that are okay:

4. Diablo II
5. Railroad Tycoon
6. Command and Conquer II
7. The Sims
7. Sim City 3000
9. Civ: Call to Power (bleh...)

Games I utterly loathe:

10. Age of Empires II
11. Rollercoaster Tycoon
12. Baldurs Gate (and I normally *like* RPGs!)

Chowlett · September 16, 2000, 11:44

Sorry, going to have to be a renegade. Top of my list is:

1. Diablo II

This may just be a newness thing, since I only acquired DII recently. However, I still haul out Diablo for a quick slash, and DII is much better. Then comes

2. SMAC (no AX as yet)
3. CivII

Great games. As testimony to their long lasting qualities, I even still play CivII occassionally. Fine games, as is the whole Meier stable.

Haven't really played the rest, and RTS isn't my bag generally, but AoE2 is quite groovy, and what I've seen of RRT and RRT2 is good.

Just one question, what happened to MoO2?

MariOne · September 16, 2000, 18:27

Strictly TBS

1. Stars!
2. Master of Magic
3. Master of Orion 2
4. Civ II
5. Age of Wonders
6. SMAC (X)
7. Space Empires

Chowlett · September 17, 2000, 11:18

How did MoM go anyways? - it's always mentioned on these forums, but I can never find a copy. What was the basic idea?

Eurhetemec · September 17, 2000, 20:09

Master of Magic - Was like this.

Basically, it was, to basic appearances, a CIV clone. It was *very* different in practice, however.

First off, you were a Mage, and chose what "schools" of magic you were good at. You could choose to have a mix of spells, and be balanced but weak, or you could focus exclusively on one area. Further, you could sacrifice some spell casting capability for things like "Warlord", making your units better trained and easier to support, and other minor but useful advantages.

You also chose a race to be your "main" race, which dictated what sort of city you started with. There were quite a few to choose from, including Elves, Dark Elves, High Men, Barbarians, Klackons (insect men), Halflings, Dragon-men (forget real name), and so on. This cost a certain number of points, and the Dark Elves and Dragon-men started in the "Mirror World", or "Dark World", where there were nastier monsters, and harsher terrain, but less competition, generally.

There were quite a few schools of magic, from things like Fire to Chaos, to "Holy" and "Unholy" (forget exact names), and thus you could be a Dark Elf Mage specialising in Chaos magic, or a Human warlord with limited magic in a few areas, but powerful troops, or whatever.

Basically you never had to play the same guy twice.

Then you went into the game. The world was randomly generated, with large numbers of pre-existing cities and villages owned by no specific person (as opposed to CIV/SMAC's "empty" world), often of different races to your own (which gave access to different troop types and buildings, as did your type of magic).

There was, as I said, the light world and the dark world, which, IIRC, could only be moved from one to another by certain portals. They were as their names suggested, and the light world was much more densely populated and easy to live in.

You managed cities much like CIV/CIV2, built buildings and so on, with one MASSIVE difference, NO TECH! You either built buildings that allowed other buildings or had to get to a certain city size or had to know a certain spell (yes, you had actual limited spells, and could get more by research, and trading with other wizards, just like tech, in some ways), or be of a certain race.

The buildings allowed various units (there were VAST numbers of different ones) to be built, dependant on race, and so on.

You then used these to defend, to conquer, to fight other monsters and so on.

In particular, there were various guarded "mana" sites, which had monsters you had to defeat before you could start gaining energy from them, so there were sort of quests, and IIRC, there were other monsters to fight to find magic items and so on.

Speaking of which, there was a GREAT magic item creation system allowing you to create "custom" magic items, again, dependant on what spells you could cast and how powerful you were. This took time and mana.

Mana was also used in combat, as you could, and had to (unless you had highly trained troops) cast spells in combat, zap people, summon monsters, and so on.

Combat was a turn-based, "isometric grid" affair, ala Warhammer, and various units could do various things. You could get heroes (who could gain levels and extra abilities, and use those magic items) as well as your normal troops, and they often bolstered your armies, as did the big, scary, monsters you summoned.

Then you went round and defeated the other wizards. I think conflict was the only way to win, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, it was a GREAT game, tonnes of replay value, really totally underrated at the time, far superior to CIV, but close to when CIV2 came out (still before), and suffered only from being a bit to easy, perhaps, even on the hardest setting (ala all the "Master of..." games). Unfortunately, my CD hates my computer.

It was most similar to thet PSX game "Brigandine", which I also greatly enjoyed, but Brigandine had alot less depth (though it was really FUN)...

I believe it's "abandonware", now, and can be downloaded, quite legally, here: "http://underdogs.gamingdepot.com/letter.php?id=M" if that tweaks your interest. Poor MoM. So good, yet so forgotten.

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"You're standing on my neck."

Helium Pond · September 18, 2000, 05:13

I've gotten MOM from the underdogs site (a fantastic site, by the way) and have played it a little bit; it seems enjoyable, but I guess I haven't hit on the thing that makes everyone rave about it so much.

On the underdogs site, it says that the major reason MoM didn't get good sales was that it was released with a horrible, data-erasing bug in it, so it quickly got a reputation as poison. The version available on the site is the patched version.

Chowlett · September 18, 2000, 17:38

I see. Sort of a cross between:

Civ/Civ2/Diablo/MoO2/Warhammer/AoE-stylee/pretty much every TB- and RT-S game ever made. It sounds good - downloading.

While I'm at it, what about Magic: the Gathering? That crops up here from time to time.
[This message has been edited by Chowlett (edited September 18, 2000).]

XWaste · September 20, 2000, 08:45

Wow...I just have to say thanks for informing about the underdogs site, it really is great.
Discussing which games are best is in the end, very subjective and depends on the individuals tastes. The only thing I want to add, is that those games that which are best for me are those I remember playing when I was young on the old c64 and amiga. I get a lot of enjoyment from games today, but I wonder if, in ten years time I will get the same euphoric rush when dusting off the old smac disc that I just did from seeing I can get neuromancer, megalomania, megatravellar and bloodwych from the underdogs site.

...oh for those days of innocent gaming

Eurhetemec · September 20, 2000, 23:28

You get the rush seeing them, but do you still get it playing them? I was an ST boy, and LOTS of old ST games are available on the 'net (unlike the Amiga, where you usually get PC versions of Amiga games, as lots of maniacs claims the Amiga isn't dead. Talk about deluded!), and some good emulators, and really, those games are NOT as good as I remember them (for the most part). Some simple arcade games, like Buggy whatsit (never remember it's proper name) are still fun, but most games: goodbye! Really, alot of those games sucked, much more than we remember.

As for the magic of MoM, well, it is an obscure thing, probably. I was really into fantasy RPGs at the time, which probably helped, and it was SOOOO great to be able to simply define your own wizard after CIV's meaningless civilisations. Some people like "Master of..." games, some "Civilisation" ones. I'm probably the former, though I love SMACX dearly, I thought SMAC was too limited. I'm looking foward to MOO3 more than CIV3, I'm afraid to say (this site NEEDS to cover the MO... games, IMO), given that I know quite a bit about MOO3 (sounds unbelievable), and NOTHING about CIV3, because the tell us nothing.

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"You're standing on my neck."

Helium Pond · September 21, 2000, 01:34

I think MOO3 has the best conceptual approach ever to preventing burn-out from micromanagement while still having a vast empire. If they do it correctly, I expect it to set the new standard for 4x games. I hope the Civ team are watching, because the main problem with the game is how much it bogs down in minutiae at the end.

Oh, by the way: I have found a great many old games I never knew about, and have enjoyed immensely, from the underdogs site. I get a lot out of old games, if they're good the graphics don't matter. Sometimes the cheap graphics add to the charm (but not always). And I do still enjoy some of the games I used to play on my old Apple ][e; I still get a kick out of Aztec, but I don't think I'll ever need to play Drol again.
[This message has been edited by Helium Pond (edited September 21, 2000).]

DickK · October 13, 2000, 16:58

Okay -- my personal preferences would be

1. SMAC/SMACX
2. Rollercoaster Tycoon w/ expansions
3. RRT2
4. Civ2
5. SimCity3000
6. Baldurs Gate
7. The Sims

The top 3 are essentially equal, just depends on my mood as to which one is the current 'favorite'. Don't play Civ2 much anymore but its still high on my all time favorite list.

Haven't played the others or not enough to count.

Not listed but personal favorites include GrandPrix2/3 and European Air War.

Misotu · October 13, 2000, 23:48

Helium, I didn't know that there was going to be a MOO3 - until I started reading these boards, I had no idea that anyone except me ever played MOO

Excellent. If/when it appears, I will definitely acquire it. SMAC/SMACX is easily my favourite strategy game of all time, followed by Civ and MOO/MOO2 and ... um ... the XWing stuff. The early ones. I just loved the combination of combat and strategy.

My all-time list ...

1 SMAC/SMAX
2 XWing/Tie Fighter/B Wing etc, but not the awful later stuff
3 Civ/CivII
4 MOO/MOO2

edited to add the 5th. Um, well

5 UFO Enemy Unknown

Yes, I know. But I just loved the way it played. Don't ask me why.
[This message has been edited by Misotu (edited October 13, 2000).]

WhiteElephants · October 18, 2000, 16:46

Help, I downloaded Masters of Orion and I can't get it to run. What icon do I click on, or do I run it from DOS? I tried both and couldn't come up with anything. When I ran it it said that it requires 1024k of extended memory and I think I have that??? Any suggestions?

Misotu · October 23, 2000, 17:53

WE, I can't be much help here as I tend to play MOO2 nowadays, but I think MOO only ran in DOS. My husband made a special boot disk for me, so that I didn't get Windows at all because I think we had problems running it in a DOS window under Windows.

Does this make sense at all? I'm not very technical really, sorry.

Mech Assassin · October 24, 2000, 04:09

So, let's go! All games here are the ones I can't live without.

1. Chrono Trigger
2. SMACX
3. MOO2
3. MOO
4. C&C: Tiberian Dawn
5. C&C: Red Alert
5. Starcraft
6. Elite: The Frontier
6. Seiken Densetsu 3 (AKA. Secret of Mana 2)
6. Shogun: Total War
7. Baldur's Gate
7. Populous 2
8. Transport Tycoon
9. Railroad Tycoon 2
9. UFO: Enemy Unknown
10. Railroad Tycoon
10. X-Com: Apocalypse
10. Earth 2150
10. Ground Control
11. Populous
11. Tie Fighter
11. X-Wing: Alliance
11. X-Wing
12. Falcon 4
12. Pirates Gold
13. System Shock
13. Ultima Underground
14. Terranova: Strike Force Centauri
14. Mech Warrior 2
14. Novastorm
15. Triplane
15. Wings
15. Assualt Wing
15. Tappo 2
15. Ultimate Tapan Kaikki
15. Tappo Tactics
15. Fight 2
15. Nukes 3D
15. Scorched Earth
15. Rocket Chase
15. Turbis
15. Auts 2
15. Auts

The last ones (15.) are small, mostly finnish, freeware or shareware games.
So, there are the great games. Not-so-great, but playable games list would be too long, so I don't type it. Bad games list would be equally long, so I'll leave it too.

Mech Assassin · October 24, 2000, 04:25

quote:

Originally posted by WhiteElephants on 10-18-2000 04:46 PM
Help, I downloaded Masters of Orion and I can't get it to run. What icon do I click on, or do I run it from DOS? I tried both and couldn't come up with anything. When I ran it it said that it requires 1024k of extended memory and I think I have that??? Any suggestions?

This might just go a little too technical, especially when this might need slight modifications at every computer, but I know what's the problem. You don't have EMS memory activated. It can be activated throught config files, called Config.sys and Autoexec.bat. Add this line to config.sys, if not already added:
device=C:\windows\emm386.exe RAM

Also, if not already added, add this line before the first one:
device=C:\windows\himem.sys

Many more switches would be useful, but they are different for every computer, so I'd basically need to be on your computer to do them.

Also, if you want to go to the dos mode in start, press F8, when it says "Loading Windows XX..." (XX=your windows versio, 98, 95 or ME). Then you get a menu. Choose Command Prompt Only to go to the MS-Dos.
If you want to make a boot disk for it, create it by putting empty formatted disk to Diskette Driver. Go to the My Computer in windows. Right-click the Diskette Drives picture and choose Format... Choose Full and check the box "Copy System Files". After that just press start. Now when you start computer with the Diskette in Driver, it'll load dos, instead of windows.

Mech Assassin · October 24, 2000, 04:29

If you want old games, go to http://www.abandongames.com
If you want emulators and games for them, go to http://romfinder.com

WhiteElephants · October 24, 2000, 16:24

Thanks for the tips Mistou and Mech, but I already gave up on it. I found Romance of the Three Kingdoms and have gotten into it. Again, Thanks.

Black Sunrise · October 24, 2000, 19:26

quote:

Originally posted by Mech Assassin on 10-24-2000 04:25 AM
This might just go a little too technical, especially when this might need slight modifications at every computer, but I know what's the problem. You don't have EMS memory activated.

*clap* *clap* *clap*
Looks like you learned computers the same way I did: by trying to install computer games. You learn the most that way, I think.
Black Sunrise

Misotu · October 24, 2000, 21:27

Mech Assassin .....

LOL. Oh yes. Transport Tycoon. Number 6 on my list of all-time greats.

I'm judging these purely on the basis of the time I spent playing them, and the number of times I went back to them of course

I notice UFO Enemy Unknown is on your list too -

Argonaut · October 27, 2000, 22:42

For me it would have to go like this:

1. SMAC/SMACX -> I don't really differentiate the two, SMACX is too me just an expansion of the same game but with cool new characters, techs, weapons etc. There's so much about the game that's great, the different characters of all the factions, the graphics, the storyline itself, the diplomatic options...I could go on.

2. Civ II -> Still a very close second. From the day it came out till the day SMAC came out, this was pretty much all I played. I will always consider it one of the best games.

3. AOE II -> I really liked this game. A big improvement on the first one, and I'm glad I bought it. I play it every now and then when I've been on an all day SMAC marathon and want something new to do, but have no where to go.

4. The Sims -> I liked this game, although the expansion pack got a little too gimicky. It's a fun game, but it loses its novelty unfortunately. Still, I can always go and revist it my little familes, or if I get really bored lock them into a room and just laugh. It's actually a fun game to fool around with with friends.

5. SimCity 3000- A big waste of money for me. Not any better than SimCity 2000, just more complicated and less user friendly. Didn't really like it.

I haven't really played any of the other games except...

DEAD LAST. Civ: CTP. I hated this game. The graphics weren't great, diplomacy was a step BACK from Civ II, and all in all was a completely inferior game to Civ II, even Civ I actually. Spent to much time trying to provide exciting new gimicks that they forgot to make the game fun. Not even an Earth map?????? No thanks. Games like that make me wish you could get a refund on opened software. Even contemplated scratching the disc so that it could be taken back, but then I'd probably only get a replacement.

That's my two cents...and probably a few extra.

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Argo
"People want to believe what they see is true, even if it's only for the time they are in the playhouse. That's what theatre is, don't you understand? Showing people what they wish were true."
-Robertson Davies "World of Wonders"

Provost Harrison · October 28, 2000, 07:51

Argonaut, you should have taken it back, giving some technological excuse of why it didn't work on your computer. As this will baffle the checkout staff of wherever you got the game from, they will give you a refund or failing that, a credit note with which you could buy something far better. But if a game is ****e, I reckon you should be able to take it back, in my opinion. Actually, you have given me a great idea for an OT thread...

DaRanger · October 28, 2000, 18:16

Me Fav's

SMAC/SMAX
Dune 2000
Sim City 2000 (I have 3000 but it's not fun)
X-Com Apocolypse, Terror and UFO equally
All the original Might and Magic :-)!
All the Original SSI AD&D games (Pool, Curse etc. I just can't get enough of them!)

This keeps me pretty occupied!

DaRanger · October 29, 2000, 01:32

Oh Yeah,

They ain't your traditional Computer games but I also like the following BBS Door Games alot :-)!

TradeWars 2002
Barren Realms Elite (Now Earth 2025 on the internet)

These guy's have to be considered some of the best of the best when it comes to turn based multi player gaming :-)!

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DaRanger,
Sole Proprietor
DaRangers Deep Space
Spice and Fungus Grove