Are computer (PC) games dying?

[Asher]

Remember also that Microsoft wants the X-Box to succeed. So Microsoft's next OS could likely cause more problems for game makers who want to make game for PC's, eventually they'll find it too costly and either shift to one of the consoles or just go bust.

This makes no sense...MS makes far more money off Windows and its PC-game monopoly than it does off the Xbox.

There's a fundamental difference between many PC and console games. MS will keep publishing games like Age of Mythology on the PC and Halo on the Xbox, sometimes they'll release a game on both platforms. MS isn't trying to force everyone away from the PC and to the Xbox. They want people who are going to play consoles to play on a MS console, and the people who are going to play PC games to do it with an MS OS.

You make it seem like MS wants all games to move to the Xbox...MS would prefer if consoles didn't exist and everyone used PCs, really.

[DinoDoc]

When you look at games like Freedom Force, Age of Mythology, & Warcraft III to name a few, It is hard to reasonablly say that PC games are near death. The reason you saw so few games at bast buy is due to the fact that less crap was released this year.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Good job, you didn't mention Civ3 anywhere in that post

Well... it was hard not to, but I tried to generalize it (is that what it's called?)


Oh, and one more reason why pc games doesn't sell well:

About a year ago, a game called Car Tycoon was released. On the package it said it included MultiPlayer features, but inside the box there was a little msg, saying MultiPlayer didn't make it to the release of the game, but it will come in a patch later... It's been a year (And there has been released several patches), but there's still no sign of MultiPlayer...

If companies wants to be able to future games, they have to keep what they promise...

[sabrewolf]

Originally posted by ADG
If companies wants to be able to future games, they have to keep what they promise...

hehe, obviously game producers are influenced by politicians. they are quite famous for not keeping their promises... and they still get voted in ... because we don't expect them to do else. maybe that's what the gaming industry wants.

"so we said there will be multiplayer? .... so what? ... you bought the game, we're happy"

but to civ3: allthough really buggy when released initially - by the time i got the original game and PTW there were enough patches (civ3 1.17f and PTW 1.14f) to guarantee a fairly functioning game (but i havn't tried multiplayer yet).

but it would have been nice if the beta-phase were longer and more intense. as a programmer i know, most mistakes only come out after a while, but soooo many... and so many severe ones... tstsss... damn the pressure of the publishers...

[Comrade Tribune]

Not quite dying, but zombifying at an alarming rate. Shoot-em ups and such for those who have a PC already and don´t want to buy a console additionally will survive, but complex strategy games and Rpgs may become extinct like the text adventure.

There is only one large PC games shop in all of Vienna (population nearly 2 millions), and even in this shop strategy games have become rare already.

[Dr Strangelove]

I still say that a major source of the problem has been the lack of standardization of PCs, both in terms of hardware and operating software. It is often impossible to write a game program that is cuttting edge and also will work with every possible PC system configuration owned by potential buyers. The result is that PC game buyers tear their hair out over games that won't work on their unique system while console owners are spared that tribulation because the people who write the game programs they play were able to design a product that only had to work with one standard system.

What is needed is a working committee of PC hardware designers and PC game designers to hammer out some sort of set of standards that will reduce incompatabilities.

[monkspider]

I agree with the posters who have been saying that buggy games have been the cause of a decline in PC game sales rather than piracy. Any money lost to piracy is just a drop in the bucket compared to the backlash effect that buggy games is having on the market.

[Gods Pet Monkey]

No, its not dieing. We have just had a very bad lead up to the end of the year.

Normally, late October and November sees a lot of the big name games released, just in time for Christmas, and usually several well anticipated games get put out in a matter of weeks. For some reason, this just didn’t happen this year.

When i think back over the last 3 months that games that instantly pop into my head are Unreal Tournament 2003, and Age of Mythology... The other big games of the pre-holiday season were The Lord of The Rings, the new Harry Potter game, NFS - Hot Pursuit 2, + a few expansions, the first 2 are clearly money grabbing marketing titles, and I’m not really into racing games, so NFS doesn’t interest me. I think back to this time last year, and I remember buying games like Ghost Recon, AvP2, Civ3, Empire Earth (which I thought was a huge disappointment, but anyway), Return to Castle Wolfenstein, IL-2 Sturmovik and Soul Reaver 2.

Ultimately, I blame the lack of big name games this Christmas on them all being released earlier in the year. There have been quite a few big games released this year, Warcraft III, Neverwinter Nights, Jedi Knight 2, Soldier of Fortune 2, etc. but most have been out for so long they no longer take top spot on the shelves, instead they seem to be replaced by endless tycoon titles (there seems to be a new one out every other day).

As for innovation, its not really dead. It’s pretty much in the same state its been in since the conception of PC games. Really innovative games are rare, and always have been. We look back to the days where games like Wolfenstein3D and Dune 2 were creating new genres, and we think that it was a time of great change and upheaval in the games industry, when in fact it wasn’t. Truly, only a handful of games did anything major, and none of them were released at the same time, it’s just our memory playing tricks on us...

Next year is looking good though, a few anticipated titles coming up quickly (MOO3, SimCity4) and some big names on the horizon (Doom III, perhaps... Unreal 2, maybe... Duke Nukem 4 Ever, well.. no actually, no DK4E).

[Adagio]

Originally posted by sabrewolf
but to civ3: allthough really buggy when released initially - by the time i got the original game and PTW there were enough patches (civ3 1.17f and PTW 1.14f) to guarantee a fairly functioning game (but i havn't tried multiplayer yet).

Well yes, it helps on the sales, if people know that there'll be patches for the game, but let's make a quick poll:

Wich game do you prefer to buy:

GameA - made by a company who always makes patches for their buggy games...

GameB - made by a company who's only famous for making bugs, but no patches...

[FrostyBoy]

If text adventures were suddenly brought back, would you buy it?
(2D graphics aswell, but not crap graphics).

[Asher]

Text adventures are alive and kicking.

I still play a couple MUSHes and MUDs.

[Inverse Icarus]

vote: no.

[Comrade Tribune]

Originally posted by Asher
Text adventures are alive and kicking.

I still play a couple MUSHes and MUDs.

I also do play text adventures (occasionally). But they are not really saleable: If you to write a text (only) adventure today, your only option is to distribute it for free, like Adam Cadre. (Highly recommended, btw)
http://adamcadre.ac/games.html

9.05, Shrapnel and Photopia are short, relatively easy, but extremely clever; Varicella is VERY difficult.

My all-time favourite (small) text adv is Kingdom without End (Shannon Cochrane). Can be downloaded here, together with interpreter program needed to play:
http://www.ingold.fsnet.co.uk/text.htm

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Sn00py
If text adventures were suddenly brought back, would you buy it?
(2D graphics aswell, but not crap graphics).

You mean like those Lucas adventure games?

[FrostyBoy]

yup, and the quest games.

[Urban Ranger]

Those are great games, I'd take them over the FPS and RTS any day.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Lord_Davinator
btw Tassadar 5000, you mention RoN as being a revolutionary hit in RTS, what is RoN for one thing and why?

RoN is going to be the new game by Big Huge games which was founded by Brian Reynolds blah blah blah.....

Check here for more info

[St Leo]

What is needed is a working committee of PC hardware designers and PC game designers to hammer out some sort of set of standards that will reduce incompatabilities.

We shall call the end product Ada in honour of the language designed on the same principles.

[Asher]

What is needed is a working committee of PC hardware designers and PC game designers to hammer out some sort of set of standards that will reduce incompatabilities.

Why do you think new video cards coming out are being labeled things such as being a "DirectX 9" card and the like? To get the certification they must support standard sets of features implemented in the same way.

The problem isn't necessarily competing standards, but the pure variety of hardware combinations possible.

[kring]

Originally posted by ADG


Well yes, it helps on the sales, if people know that there'll be patches for the game, but let's make a quick poll:

Wich game do you prefer to buy:

GameA - made by a company who always makes patches for their buggy games...

GameB - made by a company who's only famous for making bugs, but no patches...

Given those two choices, I would opt for:

C - not buying either game. I have adopted such tactics against companies that produce shoddy work. The expectation by both companies and consumers is: buy it buggy, that's okay. Maybe for most people, it is. But, for me, it isn't.

I have notified several game companies that I won't buy any more of their games until and unless they start putting them out fairly bug free. I have mentioned the titles I own from the companies as well as what I would buy if they cleaned up their act. I realize that there are potential system issues, but when the problems are not system issues, just a rush to beat a deadline and profit margin, that is where I draw the line. I have also used this in my regular shopping as well. I have some companies I don't buy from because they want my money, but don't want to put even a half decent effort in providing a decent product.

I would agree with the ones that say it is the buggy games causing the reduced sales.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Those are great games, I'd take them over the FPS and RTS any day.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/

Try this, there are some great games there

[Urban Ranger]

Thanks

[Lancer]

I recall I felt the same way about board wargames going down the tubes in the 70's. It seemed that role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons were stealing the the customers. My friends quit getting together for the latest release from Simulations Publications or Avalon Hill and started doing D&D, which I never had any interest in. So, now if you can even find a true hobby store you won't find many board wargames like you used to. They are in the cabinet under the flexible Darth Maul dolls with 'life like' light up light saber..."you can look but try not to mess up the Star Wars display". Hobby stores used to have racks upon racks of wargames.

So now we have consoles eroding the customer base of the computer game genre. This means that folks will never graduate to strayegy games from shoot em ups...and that might be the end of computer games, or at least relegate them to the same cabinet as the board wargames...

That said, I almost bought myself an X box for Christmas, that mech assault game looks awsome.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Lancer
I recall I felt the same way about board wargames going down the tubes in the 70's. It seemed that role playing games like Dungeons and Dragons were stealing the the customers. My friends quit getting together for the latest release from Simulations Publications or Avalon Hill and started doing D&D, which I never had any interest in. So, now if you can even find a true hobby store you won't find many board wargames like you used to. They are in the cabinet under the flexible Darth Maul dolls with 'life like' light up light saber..."you can look but try not to mess up the Star Wars display". Hobby stores used to have racks upon racks of wargames.

So now we have consoles eroding the customer base of the computer game genre. This means that folks will never graduate to strayegy games from shoot em ups...and that might be the end of computer games, or at least relegate them to the same cabinet as the board wargames...

That said, I almost bought myself an X box for Christmas, that mech assault game looks awsome.

You know Lancer, there is a game store here in K'ville that specializes in board games, especially military games - their shelves are just crammed with the things. If you are interested in a title, but can't find it in that backwater called "Oregon" ( ), please PM me and I'll go look for you.

- - - -

Oh, I do agree that PC games will never die as long as there are PC's. But what I'm really bemoaning is the fact that PC games are no longer the standard, the industry leaders in design and playability. Sure, console games might have always sold more than PC games, but for about a decade PC games were king - and being a PC gamer, I grew used to such affairs. Now, like a 30-year GM man in 1986 who grew complacent with American industrial dominance, I find my team immersed in mediocrity and repetition, while the other guys seem to be having all the fun and making all the money.

I'm missing the 90's more and more.

[JohnT]

Yeah, I'm thinking of getting an X-Box or Playstation 2 as well. My 3 big concerns and reasons for not getting one are:

1. My kid is 1 year old and in a few years (with some prodding by Daddy, of course) she will likely want some game system. So why not wait until the next gen?

2. Time. Work: 60 hours. Family: 60 hours. Sleep: 42 hours. That leaves about 15-20 hours a week to do what I want to do and what I usually want to do (computer related) is search the net. There's another 10-15 hours a week.

3. Guilt. "Damn, I've got better things to do than play Starcraft and better things to spend my money on than an X-Box" is something my mind whispers a lot. Nothing y'all can do about this one.

[Lancer]

John, thanks for the offer of picking up a wargame for me, but my real problem is playing with myself.

I guess I could move to Tennesee...*rednecks* *shudder*

I haven't had that mass market, on the winning team feel for so long now I can't recall. Even in comp games in the '90s I basicly felt like a strategy guy living in a role playing/ shoot em up world, and I drive Fords...

[SpencerH]

I dont see why people keep commenting words to the effect that 'you cant play strategy games on a console'. An X-box has a faster processor etc etc than many PC's that people currently use to play games (including me). Last time I looked CIV3 had mouse-activatable buttons for every command.

[JohnT]

Conversely Spencer, nobody seems to think about the fact that somebody might develop a keyboard/keyboard equivalent for the consoles for the purpose of playing strategy games.

I think the reason that people think that strategy games, RPG's, etc... won't work for the consoles is that people still consider them to be for kids, and kids don't play strategy games do they? No!(sez the marketing department).

[Lancer]

John, I played Civ2 on my Playstation 1 in the Philippines for 6 months. It didn't use a keyboard, just the usual hand held game controller. There was no random map generator either, just a bunch of stored maps on the game CD.

[SpencerH]

Yeah, that would be a difficult task. I see that microsoft is pushing their new netTV which includes a wireless mouse/keyboard for $99.

Its strange logic alright. Sure theres a difference between civ and Duke Nukem, but how much of a jump is it from Zelda to 'strategy' games?