The Tech Lead

BRC · December 31, 2002, 19:02

I'm sorry if this has been discussed already, but I haven't seen anything on it, at least post 1.29 and 1.14.

The Tech Lead. How important is it? At the higher levels, it takes a lot of work and a lot of infrastructure to take and then maintain it. Research buildings, maintaining high populations, and a stable economy are all necessary to make the push.

#1 Libraries are expensive, both in terms of shields and upkeep. During the Ancient Ages, you can almost always find something else to build besides Libraries. The payoff of Libraries this early in the game is small too, as your expansion will leave your cities population low at times. As icing on the cake, many of us have found out that extorting techs works great. It takes a lot of effort and sacrifice to grab the tech lead early.

#2 The Medievil Ages have 2 major branches. One leads to infrastructure, the other to the military. If you decide to do your own research, you will probably have to decide between getting banks and universities, or cavalry. If not, you can probably still extort tech, and at the very least, buy it. If you fall too far behind, you will miss the opportunity to grab some very useful wonders. Your military can also be left out to dry if you aren't able to keep it up to par with the rest of the world.

#3 The Industrial Ages will probably be your best shot at grabbing the tech lead. You should have your two cores up and running. There should also have emerged just a few civs who have been able to stay strong. Getting RR's laid, Hospitals in, and reaching Tanks before the opposition are all realistic goals. The AI's are making profits, so selling your old techs for gpt allows you to keep researching at a 4-turn pace.

#4 Not having the tech lead in the modern era can be dangerous, as another civ may launch the spaceship. Synthetic Fibers can be huge as your tanks upgrade to MA pretty cheaply. The Internet can also help you in your final push, although a pre-build should be able to accomplish this fine. If the game has lasted this long, you shouldn't have many opponents left. Your path of victory should be clear now.

In reality, you don't have to research. I myself have never played a game like this, so if someone could enlighten me, I'd appreciate it.

Lately, I have been playing around with nothing but barracks and temples in the Ancient Ages, and my goals are trimming the AI and laying claim to my 2 cores. Marketplaces will be thrown into the less corrupt cities, if I have more than 2 luxuries. Horses are built and used, in anticipation of the upgrade to Knights. The Medievil age sees the FP/Palace placed in the correct cities and filling in the rest of the available land. Temples become the first thing built in any city. I try to trigger my golden age somewhere in the early part of this age which allows me to quickly build the wonders and marketplaces that are needed. Libraries also start to go into the core cities. Up til now, I have done all 40-turn research, except for maybe Chivalry, or one of the governments. When Universities become available, they get built on top of the libraries, and then I never look back. I try to research at full speed while selling old techs to the AI's that are the furthest behind. This seems to work well for my playstyle.

I would like to know what everyone thinks. How you go about acquiring new advances is one of the most important decisions in the game. Thanks.

ducki · December 31, 2002, 21:02

I answered Ancient, but it's usually on the border between Ancient & Middle.

One "problem" with the poll is, I think Difficulty Level is a huge factor for this.
At Regent, it's Ancient/Middle. At Monarch, it's usually Industrial, occasionally Late-Middle.

Mazarin · December 31, 2002, 21:47

medieval...on emperor, I go either for Invention or for Education and I'm usually the first to discover this tech...as I like to trigger my GA at that time it isn't a problem to stay ahead till the end. deity is different for me...I don't have a real tech-lead...just trying to be at the same level and to excange techs that I research first agains techs the AI just researched.

Robber Baron · December 31, 2002, 22:12

On emperor, typically industrial -- often late industrial (unless I've landed the Great Library for at least a turn or two).
I'm still learning how to be comfortable trailing in tech. Often the Theory of Evolution provides the slingshot -- by which point I hope to have a solid ring of universities, a representative form of government, and enough of a trading economy to preserve the lead once I've seized it.

BRC · December 31, 2002, 22:47

How does everyone get to the point where they start researching? Do you build libraries as soon as they become available? Do you wait until a certain advance?

I would like to know what requirements must be met before you start researching. I like to extort as long as my continent can keep pace with the rest of the world. As soon as my continent falls behind, I feel like I need to kick it in and start to play catch up. This usually happens in the Medievil Age, as I have hit each civ on my continent a couple of times, and their ability to keep pace with the rest of the world is hampered. What do you guys wait for??

Theseus · December 31, 2002, 23:05

AU 202 is a good example for me (I'll be posting a short-ish AAR tonight or tomorrow).

Tough game... had to warmonger. (

)

Oscillating wars up through Cavs / Rifles meant putting off Libraries. Thus, although I was able to research a few disregarded techs, I was mostly in extortion mode.

In the early Industrial era, I reached parity *somewhat*, meaning that the AI leaders were overall ahead of me but I now had pretty good infrastructure / research capabilities, and could reliably get a few unresearched techs (e.g., Electricity). I will often slam out a bunch of Libraries just before Industrialization, and did so here.

ToE and Atomic Theory are where I usually break even, and, if possible, I seize the lead in the 'industrial corridor.'

Game over.

Harovan · December 31, 2002, 23:53

Regent and below - ancient age. Monarch - medieval age. Emperor - industrial age (like Theseus described). Deity - never, but I rarely play this level.

DaveMcW · January 1, 2003, 03:28

If at all possible, I try to have libraries by the time Invention rolls around and beeline for Military Tradition. The extended cavalry age makes up for my investment in libraries. I don't put up universities until I have factories, but often the game ends before then.

Mattaba · January 1, 2003, 07:42

Industrial age for me, I play emperor. There are 2 turning points in my games: once I have a FP operational and when I build ToE.

SanPellegrino · January 1, 2003, 11:13

for me it's usually the ToE, where my tech lead gets really big on monarch. btw, what is a tech lead for you? being 2 or 3 techs in front or having a huge civ2 like tech lead, being more than 1 age in front?

ZargonX · January 1, 2003, 14:01

With my cities well in place, and some good military results, I usually can get the tech lead around early industrial. Of course, with the Great Library, that can happen an awful lot earlier...

BRC · January 1, 2003, 16:43

Quote:

for me it's usually the ToE, where my tech lead gets really big on monarch. btw, what is a tech lead for you? being 2 or 3 techs in front or having a huge civ2 like tech lead, being more than 1 age in front?

It seems to be ToE for a lot of people. I consider it having a tech lead when you are 1 or 2 ahead, and are widening the gap on every turn.

Quote:

If at all possible, I try to have libraries by the time Invention rolls around and beeline for Military Tradition. The extended cavalry age makes up for my investment in libraries. I don't put up universities until I have factories, but often the game ends before then.

How do you get the other side of the tech tree? Do you extort, buy, etc. ?? Just would like to know.

Quote:

I will often slam out a bunch of Libraries just before Industrialization, and did so here.

I usually build them in all of my core cities at about the time of Education. Is this too early?? If it is, what should I do to keep up. Assume Emperor, Standard everything.

DaveMcW · January 1, 2003, 16:55

Quote:

How do you get the other side of the tech tree? Do you extort, buy, etc. ?? Just would like to know.

Trade tech for tech. For example, if I get Chemistry first, I bankrupt the tech leader then trade for Education with a second civ and Astronony with a third civ.

If you can afford it, a nice strategy is to buy Education with cash, trade Chemistry for Astronomy, then sell Chemistry to the first civ for your money back. This lets you get the most expensive tech before your new tech is devalued.

Theseus · January 1, 2003, 17:41

BRC, I'm usually in fairly major Knight-level wars around the time of Education... in fact, those lead right into the Cav wars, so it's usually not until those are winding down that I build Libraries.

BRC · January 1, 2003, 18:18

Quote:

Trade tech for tech. For example, if I get Chemistry first, I bankrupt the tech leader then trade for Education with a second civ and Astronony with a third civ.

I'll give this a try some time. Thanks.

Quote:

BRC, I'm usually in fairly major Knight-level wars around the time of Education... in fact, those lead right into the Cav wars, so it's usually not until those are winding down that I build Libraries.

I usually find that the horseman I build are enough via upgrading, although we will have to see if this holds at Emperor. Do you just keep cranking them out?? What do you build??

Quote:

Thus, although I was able to research a few disregarded techs, I was mostly in extortion mode.

Are you at a 40-turn tech pace until you build libraries, do you not research anything, which techs do you research? Do you buy anything, and how long do you wait for it to devalue? Thanks.

Dominae · January 1, 2003, 18:37

I always play Emperor, and usually gain a tech lead sometime at the beginning of the Industrial age.

I suppose you really need to define what you mean by "tech lead". Oftentimes I feel I'm ahead when I'm actually 3-4 techs behind, but that's just because I've got the techs I want. The Industrial age is a perfect example, because in most games I couldn't care less about Nationalism, Communism, Espionage or Sanitation.

To get into a nice tech position in the Medieval age, I let the AI make the decisions for me, mostly. I try to research techs that I know I will be able to sell, or that I know I'll be able to get the attached Wonder (Smith's, for example). This means that I'm not really looking for a tech lead, just trying to get by as well as possible. Consequently, Libraries and especially Universities are not priorities for me. By the end of the age, a big trading session ensues and all competitive civs hit Industrial together. This is where I gain the lead, due to the poor decisions of the AI: while they're rushing for Communism, I'm laying down Railroads and building Factories and pre-building the Theory of Evolution. Then it's a simple matter to "go scientific" and pull way ahead of the competition.

Dominae

punkbass2000 · January 1, 2003, 20:18

Industrial. ToE. Deity.

joncnunn · January 2, 2003, 13:11

I always grab the tech lead 4 to 6 turns after completion of the Forbiden Palace on Emperor level. (This is with 1.21f; I just recently got the 1.29f patch which I'll install as soon as my current game finishes.)

I usually complete the FP in the mid to late Middle Ages. In my current game though, I completed it 2 turns after the rest of the world was in the Industrial Ages, but still beat the AI to the first Industrial tech 6 turns later. (There aren't any Scientific civs in this game.)

The bigest tech lead I've ever gotten on the Emperor level was half an era. (With me being the only player at peace.)

joncnunn · January 2, 2003, 13:25

On the Emperor level, I get to the point where I can research by ignoring Libaries entirely (unless Scientific) and instead putting all my effort into completion of the FP in the best place and in the mid time lauching a major Court House, Market Place, and Bank building campaign, growing the economy to buy all techs as they become adviable. Occansionly my 1 beaker reserach even gets a tech the AI has bypassed.

On the Monarch level, I can often get a tech lead in the Ancient Era, especially if industrious. (Faster road network completion -> faster economy building -> faster tech lead.)

Quote:

Originally posted by BRC
How does everyone get to the point where they start researching? Do you build libraries as soon as they become available? Do you wait until a certain advance?

I would like to know what requirements must be met before you start researching. I like to extort as long as my continent can keep pace with the rest of the world. As soon as my continent falls behind, I feel like I need to kick it in and start to play catch up. This usually happens in the Medievil Age, as I have hit each civ on my continent a couple of times, and their ability to keep pace with the rest of the world is hampered. What do you guys wait for??

joncnunn · January 2, 2003, 13:30

To me, having a tech lead means consitantly being first to the world to a given tech branch, even if you sell it that same turn to everybody.

I don't keep techs in reserve until the AI can't afford my prices. A 3 tech lead usually doesn't occur for me on the Emperor level until Theory of Evolution, but I once got it before then because all the AIs were at war while I was at peace.

I've never gotten a full age in front on Emperor level, the most I've gotten ahead was about 60% of an era. (Same game where the AIs were all at war while I was at peace.)

Quote:

Originally posted by SanPellegrino
for me it's usually the ToE, where my tech lead gets really big on monarch. btw, what is a tech lead for you? being 2 or 3 techs in front or having a huge civ2 like tech lead, being more than 1 age in front?

joncnunn · January 2, 2003, 13:40

All of this is on Emperor level.

I sell my tech for the one on the other side of the tech tree at a discount compared to if they hadn't reserached it.

Unless I'm playing a Scientific civs, I don't build a libary in a city until I have a Bank unless I'm rushing tihe libary for the culture.

Build the FP in the proper city. The FP city site should have access to fresh water (free aquaduct). The Temple, Court House, Market Place, and Catherdrial with sufficent luxaries for a WLTPD should usually be built first. (The WLTPD might not be needed if your in a Golden Age while building the FP.)

After Court Houses become adviable, there needs to be a massive Court House building campaign in all cities not in the first ring from the Palace.

Quote:

Originally posted by BRC

How do you get the other side of the tech tree? Do you extort, buy, etc. ?? Just would like to know.

I usually build them in all of my core cities at about the time of Education. Is this too early?? If it is, what should I do to keep up. Assume Emperor, Standard everything.

joncnunn · January 2, 2003, 13:52

On Emperor level, Sanitation is often what I go after first on the Industrial era, so I can start consturction of the Hospitals. Under a Democracy/Republic every worked tile is worth at least 2 trade arrows, and so there is a major boom in the economy as those Hospitals complete and the population grows.

AI makes Nationalism a high priority even if there's no Scientific civs there that get it for free, so I always buy it when I'm not Scientific myself.

Communsim & Espiodage are techs I reserach after I have Industrialization, Replaceable Parts, and Scientific Theory of the AI hasn't and I have time to reserach them + Atomic Theory by the time I finsish the Theory of Evolution.

There's no need to prebuild the Theory of Evolution. Just build a Factory - Hospital combo in two cities and have the first of these cities build Universal Suffarage and the second build Theory of Evolution. Even if the AI gets Sceintific Method, they'll often pick a city without a Factory to build it and so you'll get it first. The best 2 techs to get from it are Electronics & Radio which completes the bottom half of the industrial tech branch.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
I always play Emperor, and usually gain a tech lead sometime at the beginning of the Industrial age.

I suppose you really need to define what you mean by "tech lead". Oftentimes I feel I'm ahead when I'm actually 3-4 techs behind, but that's just because I've got the techs I want. The Industrial age is a perfect example, because in most games I couldn't care less about Nationalism, Communism, Espionage or Sanitation.

To get into a nice tech position in the Medieval age, I let the AI make the decisions for me, mostly. I try to research techs that I know I will be able to sell, or that I know I'll be able to get the attached Wonder (Smith's, for example). This means that I'm not really looking for a tech lead, just trying to get by as well as possible. Consequently, Libraries and especially Universities are not priorities for me. By the end of the age, a big trading session ensues and all competitive civs hit Industrial together. This is where I gain the lead, due to the poor decisions of the AI: while they're rushing for Communism, I'm laying down Railroads and building Factories and pre-building the Theory of Evolution. Then it's a simple matter to "go scientific" and pull way ahead of the competition.

Dominae