I can't believe this is happening in the USA - Page 3

Ted Striker · December 31, 2002, 23:36

Actually not a bad idea. I know some immigrants that spent time in Canada before coming to the US, so maybe he can hang out there for a while?

Keep your options open.

Chegitz will he be able to make it across the border without being harassed though? (When they asked for ID, etc).

tandeetaylor · December 31, 2002, 23:38

If he leaves now, it will be at least 10 years before he is allowed to return. We have to go to school, we need to get our lives started. We can't just leave. If we were a little older, with degrees, I'd say, sure, let's go.

Edan · December 31, 2002, 23:40

Were any arrested for which hadn't been commiting an illegal act ? And, again, those that had been arrested on trivial charges were released.

Oerdin · December 31, 2002, 23:40

I doubt gender and ethnicity have much to do with it but I couldn't blame the authorities if it did. Especially since the people who want to kill us come almost exclusively from Arab states. If your husband had not previously committed crimes then you wouldn't have anything to fear now. Is that not so?

Still I shall try to help you if you will accept it. My advice is to find a local Muslim or Lebanese Christian help organization. Not only will they have probably dealt with cases like this before but also they may even be able to provide you with funds to fill out the necessary paper work. Failing that you can always check on the Internet for immigrant help services in the city in which you live. They will have broad general advice, some of which may be applicable to your case.

In any event I suggest you accept that your current impasse is the result of your own failings and you cease blaming the U.S. for your problems. It would also be nice if you stop making all the hyperbole about the 3rd Reich. I hope you are able to find a solution to your problems.

tandeetaylor · December 31, 2002, 23:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Oh and definitley get a lawyer before you do ANYTHING.

Lawyers are quite often people who take advantage of people in desperate situations. Tack on another $3,000 for lawyer's fees... (that's the price a friend of ours was quoted) They only charge $1,200 to help apply for the greencard. The more desperate the situation, the higher the fees.

tandeetaylor · December 31, 2002, 23:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
I doubt gender and ethnicity have much to do with it

See quote above from INS website.

Quote:

but I couldn't blame the authorities if it did. Especially since the people who want to kill us come almost exclusively from Arab states.

You're right. People should be arrested by demographic, not actual crimes committed. But this has been debated before. How can I argue if you're a racist.

Quote:

If your husdand had not previously commited crimes then you wouldn't have anything to fear now. Is that not so?

Again, my husband has every right to be an American citizen ( or at least legal permanent resident) as of now. His status is due to INS inefficiency.

Quote:

Still I shall try to help you

Aw, gee, you're just full of sugary goodness. Still...

Quote:

It would also be nice if you stop making all the hyperbole about the 3rd Reich.

Che was eloquent and correct in one of his former posts. You don't start asking questions about a dictatorship after it has taken away all your rights.

Quote:

I hope you are able to find a solution to your problems.

I doubt it. I am, after all, such a criminal.

I have to go for now, I'll be back.

Oerdin · December 31, 2002, 23:48

A lawyer may be expensive but the cost will be well worth it compared to deportation or imprisionment. If legal questions start to arise you would be well advised to seek legal help at once.

Ted Striker · December 31, 2002, 23:57

I agree with Oerdin, yes in the short term the lawyer is going to cost alot of money. However what he said was true, in the long run, you can't afford to NOT get a lawyer, to cover your back.

Alot of the Iranians who got rounded up here in LA had lawyers and the LAWYERS were the ones who were going to the reporters and making a stink so everybody in the public got to know about what was going on.

I am sorry I didn't catch the name of the two main lawyers on the news but please keep your options open and definitley cover your back.

Imran Siddiqui · January 1, 2003, 00:21

Quote:

I'm sorry, but I feel that it is in many ways comparable. All this is is singling out members of a society because of gender and ethnicity.

Because we are about to send Arabs to concentration camps, right? We are going to make them put the star and cresent on their body, right?

Quote:

You don't start asking questions about a dictatorship after it has taken away all your rights.

Wacko libertarians. This is why I don't join the party.

Any comparison between Nazi Germany and the INS is ludicrous. Sorry, but it was a dumb comment.

Bonaparte · January 1, 2003, 01:20

Enough of the politically correct BS already...if you are hear illegal then leave-these people aren't above our laws....Just so you know I am an Italian and my Father was an immagrant...so stick it in your ear!! And we all speak english-imagine that! At the rate these people are comming into this country and breading and using our welfare (by the way) America will no longer be America...it will be more like a province of Spain. As far as Georga is concerned, I am well aware of its history, and in my opinion Georgia S**KS, but that is my biased opinion on that issue. Now if I have to listen to anymore politically correct garbage I am going to throw up. It's easy to be politically correct on this issue until you find yourself surrounded by neighbers who cannot even speak english and that don't give a hoot about this country...sure let them all in until they start moving in next door...enough is enough the 90s are over so can the politically correct retoric!!!

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 01:35

Hey Bonaparte, are you aware that if we kick out all the illegals that the entire food supply will collapse? It's more than just political correctness, it's about freakin' practicality. And I guarantee you I've lived with more immigrants than you will ever know in your lifetime, so don't even pull that crap you hypocrite.

Bonaparte · January 1, 2003, 02:11

Oh, Have I ruffled your feathers....wake up....these people hurt our economy....watch the news....and watch an American broadcast. By the way the term hypocrate doesn't apply - before use a big word when you engage in petty name calling look it up in a dictionary!!!! Did you go to school Ted...No...don't answer.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 02:16

They don't hurt the economy -- the entire agricultural market in the US, which is the largest agricultural producer in the world, is built on the backs of migrant workers. Get rid of them and that entire economy COLLAPSES.

Or maybe you can find me enough American citizens who will perform backbreaking work in poisonous environments for less than minimum wage?

Well I tried to look up "hypocrate" in the dictionary but apparently it wasn't there.

Try reading the Grapes of Wrath and replace the Okies in the book with South Americans and Mexicans and you have the exact situation decades later -- a bunch of migrant workers who are mistreated and paid crap wages so we can enjoy the food we eat.

Sprayber · January 1, 2003, 02:38

Perhaps Lebanon would be a better place if the US is turning into the third reich?

That is what it comes down to right. Everyone wants here for economic reasons but those pesky little laws that have to be followed always seems to get in the way. Immigration is good. But unchecked immigration is a recipe for disaster. I am sorry for your situation, I truely am. But in the rush to get married and start a family, did the issue of can he legally stay in the country ever come up? Was there any thought about his legal status in this country being questionable and maybe that should have been the first thing to get settled. Now with a baby on the way and married the goverment is supposed to look the other way. Somehow it's the INS's sole fault?

It's a sad situation, but not entirely surprising.

cia · January 1, 2003, 02:44

I have NO sympathy. My friend brought his wife over from the Ukraine after a year of effort and large sums of money and he still fights with the idiots every six months. If he, with a limited income, is willing to do it the right way, you should too. Of course INS sucks, it's a government agency after all. The IRS also sucks but I don't get to ignore them.

Sikander · January 1, 2003, 02:47

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
I'll tell you what, we need to rotate the stock periodically.
People who have been in a country 10 generations, move them.
Take USA citizens, move them to Somalia.
Take 10 generation Somalians, move to Pakistan.
Pakistani's? Come on over.
Seriously. Look at what it takes to BECOME a U.S. citizen. True devotion and desire. Appreciation for what life can be.
Now, look at David Floyd or Sava, for instance.
You tell me that putting them in Somalia to live a while wouldn't do a butt-load of good ?

I'm long overdue for residence in a foreign land, as even my non-native ancestors have been here for over 300 years. I hear Haiti is as good as it can be this time of year, (which isn't good at all).

monkspider · January 1, 2003, 02:50

Wow, I can't believe some of you people can be so heartless.

cia · January 1, 2003, 02:54

If I "borrow" your house for a week and vacation there, but then give it back in good shape, would you be pissed off monkspider?

monkspider · January 1, 2003, 02:57

If you gave it back in good shape? No, not at all actually.

I'm not sure that is the analogy you were looking for, but the fact remains that this is her husband of all people we are discussing, try to show a little respect. Imagine if this situation were occuring to you and your wife/girlfriend.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 02:59

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
the fact remains that this is her husband of all people we are discussing, try to show a little respect. Imagine if this situation were occuring to you and your wife/girlfriend.

EXACTLY.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 03:01

And secondly, the crap the INS pulled in LA was underhanded, backstabbing, entrapment.

Shi Huangdi · January 1, 2003, 03:01

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Wow, I can't believe some of you people can be so heartless.

She brought it on herself by comparing the US to Nazi Germany.

cia · January 1, 2003, 03:03

I would go about the legal (stupid?) way, the same way I do in all of my other dealings with the government. Just don't complain when you start going about things the right way, and when something changes you want to exit the deal and not suffer the penalty. It's fair to those who did the deal correctly, and anything else would be an egregious slap in the face.

notyoueither · January 1, 2003, 03:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
She brought it on herself by comparing the US to Nazi Germany.

Not a good plan.

Sikander · January 1, 2003, 03:06

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Wow, I can't believe some of you people can be so heartless.

"It's easy to be cold."

monkspider · January 1, 2003, 03:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi

She brought it on herself by comparing the US to Nazi Germany.

Rubbish, whether or not you agree with her analogy is moot, she deserves to be treated with basic human decency given the most serious nature of her situation. Imagine if your mom was from Persia Shi, and due to various circumstances she was on the verge of being deported. How would you feel if you came on here, looking for a helping hand and found only fierce hostility? I find it absurd that so many are obsessed with enforcing the letter of US law, that they completely ignore the human element of a husband and wife being driven apart. It is that seperation from basic human compassion that has gotten the US in the mess that it's in.

Edan · January 1, 2003, 03:11

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
How would you feel if you came on here, looking for a helping hand and found only fierce hostility? I find it absurd that so many are obsessed with enforcing the letter of US law, that they completely ignore the human element of a husband and wife being driven apart..

A number of us did offer advice and I repeatedly pointed oput that those that were charged with trivial offenses were released soon afterwards once the details could be verified. I see nothing wrong in not being suprised that people that have commited illegal acts (no matter how sympathetic the situation may be) should have to face the consequences of those actions. Should detainees whos details have been verified and whos transgressions are trivial be released? Yes, IMHO, but not before theose details are verified.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 03:12

Well, the problem I have with this whole thing is that we don't know what his intentions were. Often, he could be here "illegally" due to some sort of technicality that he may not been aware of until the whole LA fiasco took place. If his intentions were, "**** the INS, I don't need to register," then okay I can see some negligence on their part.

But again regarding technicalities, there is a case where the INS went after a student who had less than a full class load after dropping a class at university. That was how the student became "illegal."

So, let's say this same student had spent the last 3 years at the university taking 21 hours a semester. The student has established the intent to go to school full time at the university. Okay but this semester he's only taking 12 hours, so due to the rule that he has to take 15 hours or face exportation (a rule which he probably wasn't even aware of), he is now considered, "illegal."

That's the problem I have with people equating Tandee's husband with some con artist when we don't even know WHY he is considered illegal.

There is one thing about following the letter of the law, there is a whole other thing to follow the SPIRIT of the law.

cia · January 1, 2003, 03:12

No, it's the fact that people (gasp) use situations like this to try and force compassion on them, i.e. "Your honor, my wife is pregnant, you can;t break the family up" etc.
Cold, maybe. Calculated on the immigrant's part, maybe. Good way to try and screw the system, yes.

Edan · January 1, 2003, 03:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

That's the problem I have with people equating Tandee's husband with some con artist when we don't even know WHY he is considered illegal.

Then shouldn't he be detained until the facts and circumstances are known?