I can't believe this is happening in the USA - Page 5

Shi Huangdi · January 1, 2003, 04:54

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd

Why don't you just go **** yourself? better yet, why not drive your dumbass down to austin where i'll whip your ass out to somalia.

you think that's ****ing funny? **** yourself.

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

FrostyBoy · January 1, 2003, 04:54

tandeetaylor, screw America, it's all stuffed up, come to NZ

Edan · January 1, 2003, 04:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
Intentions can also be known by documentation in combination with an interview, and interviews with witnesses, etc.

Isn't that what I said? And that takes time.

monkspider · January 1, 2003, 04:57

Floyd vs Sloww, place your bets!
In all seriousness, take a chill pill Davey.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 05:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Edan

Isn't that what I said? And that takes time.

Yeah but the feeling I get from your posts is that they are law breakers, guilty before proven innocent, and have what's coming to them.

Edan · January 1, 2003, 05:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker

Yeah but the feeling I get from your posts is that they are law breakers, guilty before proven innocent, and have what's coming to them.

Well, I think the police have enough evidence (based on visa violations) to arrest them (or at least, detain them). All the police know at that point is that they had visa violations, but they don't know how serious the violations are.

And yes, I do think that having visa violations makes one guilty of being an illegal immigrant - but that doesn't mean I don't think they should be released as soon as their violations are found to be trivial. And innocent people get arrested to, you know.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 05:17

But again, your argument is placing all of the blame squarely on the immigrants, and that those violations are completely their fault, when I know for a fact and have seen many examples personally where that is never the case.

I don't know what your experience is with bureaucracies, but I have seen SO MANY screwups because Jenny in New York has paper X and John in Phoenix has paper Y and both of those haven't been sent yet to Tim in San Diego for processing.

So even though the paper work has been approved, "technically" Ed in LA hasn't received it yet so therefore it's the immigrants fault that he is considered "illegal."

Most of these people:

1) Took the necessary steps to do the proper filing procedures
2) VOLUNTARILY went to the INS when asked

I have many many immigrant friends and it's just not so cut and dry, and they came to this country to work hard so they should be treated as brothers and not assumed as criminals.

The INS needs serious overhaul. Remember this was the same group that issued all sorts of paperwork to the hijackers. My faith in their efficiency is very low.

David Floyd · January 1, 2003, 05:18

Quote:

In all seriousness, take a chill pill Davey.

I'm just sick of his condescending attitude towards anyone who disagrees wtih him.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 05:19

What about the chokehold?!?

At least a joint lock demonstration!

David Floyd · January 1, 2003, 05:20

Anytime

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 05:21

Eli · January 1, 2003, 05:36

Apparently Jews of Irani descent were also arrested. Which leaves me no choice but to join the protest against the inhuman treatment by the US.

Pekka · January 1, 2003, 05:54

I'll put my money on Floyd, because I know something of his abilities to break people.. but then again I have a strange feeling that Sloww has like million guns, 44. under his pillow and m-16 just for fun.. Man this is gonna be tough to call! Normal fight I go with floyd, gun fight and I go with Sloww.

Tandeetaylor, Sorry I couldn't be any help for you guys, but this was interesting thread. I hope you get a break.. and you will.. I didn't read all the posts though, but I'd ask lawyer what to do.. though they're expensive. Good Luck!

Jack_www · January 1, 2003, 05:57

Well the INS is know for screw ups. In fact a lot of times it is the people who work in government that screw things up for people. I would get a lawyer right away. Tyring to do this with out one is asking for problems. You can even try legal aids or something like that since it is cheaper. At least try and find books on the subject. There is even websites were you can talk to a lawyer for far less then a couple of thousand o dollars.

I think that most of this has to do with INS, and the way they take years to process even the most simplest paper work. I mean did you guys know ahead of time you would need to drop out of school a while? Next time when you have to apply for anything with INS give them lots of time and plan ahead.

Jack_www · January 1, 2003, 06:09

BUt that Star of David comment was not a very good one to make, I think that is way you got the comments you got. You may be pissed off at the whole thing, but EVERYONE should realize that the agienies of the US government, execpt for maybe IRS, take their time doing anything. The people who work there are not the best in the world and almost impossilble to get rid of them, unless they commit a crime or somthing along those lines. You always have to give them alots of time and plan ahead of time. Dont execpt the INS to just hurry up for one person, cause even if your life depended on it they could care less.

Edan · January 1, 2003, 11:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
But again, your argument is placing all of the blame squarely on the immigrants, and that those violations are completely their fault, when I know for a fact and have seen many examples personally where that is never the case.

It doesn't matter who's fault it is. That's what you don't understand. The momebnt they had a visa violation, even iff it was the INS's own fault, they beccame illegal immigrants, and all that was known on the day they were detained, was that they were illegal immigrants that had to be interviewed, all of them.

If a policeman sees me, after losing my keys, breaking my window and then entering into my own building, they will still arrest me even though I'm legally allowed to do so and completely innocent until they can verify that I wasn't doing anything wrong.

Quote:

So even though the paper work has been approved, "technically" Ed in LA hasn't received it yet so therefore it's the immigrants fault that he is considered "illegal."

I don't caree who's fault it is when they were detained. That's what the interviewing is supposed to find out.

Quote:

Most of these people:
1) Took the necessary steps to do the proper filing procedures

You have no way to verify that, but even if it is true, it doesn't matter.

Quote:

2) VOLUNTARILY went to the INS when asked

Well, all of them did that. Including the 20 who have been connected to serious crimes. Does that mean we should let them off the hook on what may only be a minor crime, that may or may not be their fault, before verifying that it is only a minor crime and not more serious?

Quote:

The INS needs serious overhaul.

Well, duh.

Dr Strangelove · January 1, 2003, 11:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
This is the account from the San Francisco Chronicle:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...1/MN150184.DTL

I think there is a requirement for yearly registration. Many residents ignore it, but technically it is the law. That could be the problem.

Imran Siddiqui · January 1, 2003, 14:38

Quote:

Imagine if this situation were occuring to you and your wife/girlfriend.

1) As Sprayber said, this NEVER came up before the marriage?

2) That wasn't really what got a lot of us a little upset.... (look below)

Quote:

And more sympathy would have been in order if she had just asked for advice or talked about her situation, rather then geting mad this country and comparing to Nazi Germany. That was incredibly insensitive and offensive and so she deserves what she gets.

Exactly!!

If she was coming for help and not with so much venom, I'm sure we would have acted different.

SlowwHand · January 1, 2003, 14:51

Quote:

Originally posted by David Floyd

Why don't you just go **** yourself? better yet, why not drive your dumbass down to austin where i'll whip your ass out to somalia.

you think that's ****ing funny? **** yourself.

I'm going to cut you some slack. Give you the benefit of the doubt, that at 2:45 a.m. you were in such a condition that you let your mouth overload your ass.
This time.

As for my statement, I stand by it. You need to have a basis for comparison.

And Pekka, I imagine you have better uses for your money than losing it on David.

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 14:52

tandeetaylor, despite your economic situation, the ultimate truth is, your husband is gonna have to bite the bullet and register and get detained for violating his visa. You're going to need a lawyer, no matter what the cost. You have to come up with the money, period. If I had any to send you, I would, but things have been so tight for us for months, we have none to spare. Maybe other 'Polytoners can help you out. It's a large sum, but heck, they built a house foa s tranger in another country.

The Feds were a quite bit more forgiving of people trying to get their legal status cleared up, up until a bunch of murderers decided to declare war on us. When the US is paranoid and scared, lots of people get hurt even the innocent or those simply guilty by association.

David Floyd · January 1, 2003, 14:56

Quote:

As for my statement, I stand by it. You need to have a basis for comparison.

Why? That's ridiculous - I have to live in abject poverty under a horribly corrupt "government" before I can criticize my own corrupt government?

Chris 62 · January 1, 2003, 15:29

Hey, did they ship Floyd to Somalia yet?

Anyway, for the younglady, I help my dumbass greek relatives all the time, you don't need nearly the sums quoted, first, find your husband's EXACT status, next, EXACTLY what he is in violation of, and next, the possible penalty.

ONLY then consider a lawyer, you may not need one.
Also, find out who exactly represents your district, and get in touch with them, make your plight known, explain the problem clearly (and leave out the boorish Nazi comparisons, as you can see, it just riles people), and seek assistance.

US laws are meant to protect us, and our sysytem will help you, IF you use it correctly.

PS, I'll kick in to ship Floyd to Khartoum.

Jaakko · January 1, 2003, 16:15

The saddest thing in this screw up is that the INS still way too incompetent to do anything with the data they've gathered from these roundups, except to lose it again.

JimmyCracksCorn · January 1, 2003, 16:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Tassadar5000
Apparently trying to do the right thing in the United States has so little value that now you'll be arrested for it. And thats outrageous.

This thread is quickly turning into a repeating parrot thread so I'm going to bow out and hope someone else can convince you people of this.

You just don't understand the law, or are taking a far too idealistic approach to it.

It doesn't matter if her husband is running a lost kitten shelter, the law says illegal immigrants my pay a penalty, and since, by law, he is an illegal immigrant, he must pay.

Thats the law. What you think the law should be is irrelevant and not helpful to her situation.

Dis · January 1, 2003, 16:26

the law is ignored plain and simple. It's like speeding laws.

Especially where I live and where tandeetaylor lives apparrantly- Las Vegas.

We would not be able to man so many positions if we did not have illegal immigrants.

Question: If she is married to him then what is the problem? I thought they automatically become citizens under that condition.

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 16:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
And secondly, the crap the INS pulled in LA was underhanded, backstabbing, entrapment.

The legal definition of entrapment is if a police office encourages or incites a person to commite a crime. This did not occur in the L.A. case. People who had already commited crimes were encouraged to come and turn themselves in.

You may dislike it but entrapment it is not.

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 16:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I mean the ones that are left over were basically rounded up and nobody has heard from them since. The American Iranian community is calling it the, "Black Hole."

Ted, I heard the Iranian "community activists" on the radio several times since this occured and I don't find their claims to be at all credible. When they first got up several of them claimed "tens of thousands of muslims and Iranians were being randomly rounded up in the streets", then it became "a few thousand", then "a couple hundred". Later legal documents showed these "activists" are full of it and that only 150 people had been detained all of whom had commited one or more crimes.

Those persons who's offenses were minor were let go once their identity and legal status were determined; just like would happen for a citizen. The only people still being detained are those who are awaiting trial or who refuse/cannot show who they are, where they live, and where they are from. All of them have recieved the same due process and rights every citizen gets. The police commitioner has said those persons who are illegal aliens will be deported and that is what has gotten these "activists" so furious. They feel they and their friends should be above the law.

These "activists" are nothing more then bold faced liars who intentially lie in order to get publicity for there cause.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 16:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin

The legal definition of entrapment is if a police office encourages or incites a person to commite a crime. This did not occur in the L.A. case. People who had already commited crimes were encouraged to come and turn themselves in.

You may dislike it but entrapment it is not.

Legally entrapment? Maybe not.

Backstabbing? YES

Again, MOST OF THESE PEOPLE HAD NOT COMMITTED CRIMES.

JimmyCracksCorn · January 1, 2003, 16:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Dissident
the law is ignored plain and simple. It's like speeding laws.

Especially where I live and where tandeetaylor lives apparrantly- Las Vegas.

We would not be able to man so many positions if we did not have illegal immigrants.

Question: If she is married to him then what is the problem? I thought they automatically become citizens under that condition.

Well this may be true but that possibility exists outside the bounds of the law and you have to assume that the law is going to be enforced.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 16:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin

Ted, I head the Iranian "community activists" on the radio...

These "activists" are nothing more then bold faced liars who intentially lie in order to get publicity for there cause.

I have no idea who you were listening to but again the problem you guys have is that you are attributing their "legal status" to them as being completley their own fault. That's BS. Most of these people took all the proper steps necessary to register with this INS, and did not willfully evade anyone.

Quote:

They feel they and their friends should be above the law.

That's just not true at all.