I can't believe this is happening in the USA - Page 6

tandeetaylor · January 1, 2003, 18:26

I'm sorry about the Nazi comment. Nazi Germany it is not, but oppressive and unfair it certainly is. And I did NOT call my countrymen nazis. ??

I'm functioning on excessive worry (especially after reading detainment detail excerpts, thanks for that). This whole thing has dropped on us suddenly. The INS didn't do a very good job of getting the word out, we didn't hear about it until yesterday. Especially considering that I was just at the INS a few weeks ago and was reading all the various posters and bulletins (sp?) on the wall while I was waiting in line.

I'm not working right now, and even if I did, I couldn't make nearly as much money as my husband does right now. If he goes to jail, how do I pay my seven hundred dollar rent and my four hundred dollar car payment and all the other bills?

My husband was illegal before I met him. I realize that that is his fault. His intention was always just to go to school here, unfortunately he doesn't have a rich father to pay for his education. Circumstances happen. He's very naive and trusting. He has a don't-worry-about-it-and-it-will-go-away attitude.

Of course we talked about this before we got married. We planned on applying for his green card as soon as we could, which is what we did. It's hard to explain to him that things aren't as happy and easy as he thinks they are and would like them to be.

We've talked about moving to Lebanon. I don't know if I could do that. My son would be subject to one year of involuntarily service when he was 18. I just don't think I could stand that.

So where should we go? New Zealand you say? I don't know, I'm not what you would call a seasoned international traveler. Once we crossed the border into Canada and went to a drive thru fast food place when I was like 7.

I think we are going to talk to a lawyer. And we are going to go and register. I think that our friends will take care of us financially for a little while if he is detained. I think the hardest part will be thinking about where he is and what he might be going through. Once he went to jail for about 16 hours because of failure to pay a ticket, and it was just horrible...

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 18:32

Do either of you have any family which can help you in this matter?

tandeetaylor · January 1, 2003, 18:35

What do you mean by help? With money? No... My dad and his wife make less $60,000 a year combined and they have two small children. And his family lives in quasi-poor conditions in Lebanon.

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 18:50

Hmm, that does make things a little more difficult. If it comes down to needing a lawyer at least you could always cut expense or get a roommate or something. Also the court often always defendents to pay large fines through a payment plan so I'm not sure if you would have to pay the whole cost up front. Lawyers also often have various payment options availible.

Inverse Icarus · January 1, 2003, 18:54

are you a naturalized citizen? doesnt marrying an american do something for immigration?

i'm not very tolerant of llegals, so i'll shut my trap while i'm quasi-productive

tandeetaylor · January 1, 2003, 19:07

Yes, my husband has the right to become a legal permanent resident, but it takes about a year for the paperwork to be processed usually.

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 19:11

Perhaphes there is a way to get delays and continuinces until the paper work comes through. Legal stalling tactics work for some people. Why not for you?

Sprayber · January 1, 2003, 19:27

Why hasn't Lancer posted? His wife wasn't a citizen was she until they went through the process. From what I remember he said it was a long drawn out process. Perhaps he could provide some insights into the problem at hand.

OneFootInTheGrave · January 1, 2003, 19:39

Ted Striker

and to those who are so offended with comparison to Nazi Germany --- does, or did any other civilized country (I don't count dictatorships) treat humans in the same way US does these days?

Torture of prisoners, rounding up and arrests trough "registration" process. Deceiving people straight? I mean it must have been the normal people who knew that they have nothing to hide and they went in to register, perhaps they were waiting for OBL himself to come and register when they cannot catch him.

Or maybe US is just showing its ugly and paranoid side a bit more.

Can you really control 300 million + people in that way?

Perhaps with stalinist methods, but that is not very American, at least not historically.

Oerdin · January 1, 2003, 19:44

Just about every reasonable person including the Red Cross has concluded no torture has occured. Can you please put that tired old troll to rest?

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 19:45

I strongly advise against moving to Lebanon.

Jack_www · January 1, 2003, 20:19

tandeetaylor if you are citizen of US I dont think it will be all that bad for you guys. I would try looking for anther job just in case you husban cant work any more. If he is illegal then he cant even have a job etheir, so be very carefull. The damn INS takes forever to do everything.

Do you have anyone that can lend you some money to help you out in time you trying to get everything in order? Lots of people are here in US illegally and dont get caught, so that might give you some hope.

Jack_www · January 1, 2003, 20:20

Yeah Lebanon is not the best of places to be living right now.

MichaeltheGreat · January 1, 2003, 20:48

Quote:

Originally posted by SlowwHand
They just did that crap for Mexicans. JUST DID IT.

With the condition that you had to be able to prove continuous presence in the US for a large number of years, an impossiblity for most people, Mexican or otherwise. (Pre-9/11, US citizens weren't even required to identify themselves crossing the border back into the US from Mexico or Canada, you just said "US citizen" and if you looked and sounded white enough, they let you through.

Proving that you had never, for even a part of a day, crossed outside the US is practically impossible, and most Latinamerican illegals are seasonal commuters, depending on the ag and sweatshop and yuppie maid job markets and their local economies.

As far as the economic interest goes, back in the mid 80's when Reagan was in the white house, INS was mandated to enforce sanctions against employers of illegals, and INS agents used to walk into my offices where I worked, demand to inspect the premises without warrant, look for brown looking people, then ask to see proof of their legal status to work in our personnel files. If you didn't comply or didn't have the docs on hand, they were all over your ass. That lasted for less then two years, then the law went back to rousting wetbacks

(inconvenient to yuppies who's housing developments they crossed), while ignoring employers who often paid below minimum wage and of course off the books - completely independent violations of Federal and state tax and labor laws which are also ignored while employment of illegals is ignored.

tandee - as far as your specific situation goes, what it sounds like to me is your husband overstayed a B1/B2 visa, although he did get married and apply for the green card? Unless the law has changed, as long as he's married to you, and as long as INS hasn't rejected the green card application (it's still pending), he had (has?) a legal right to be in the US, which should be noted in an endorsement by the INS officer reviewing the application for green card in your husband's I-94 form. That doesn't give him the right to work, or leave the US and reenter, but it does give him the right to remain during the pendancy of the green card application review.

MichaeltheGreat · January 1, 2003, 20:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Sprayber
Why hasn't Lancer posted? His wife wasn't a citizen was she until they went through the process. From what I remember he said it was a long drawn out process. Perhaps he could provide some insights into the problem at hand.

I don't know if Delores is a citizen, or just a permanent resident alien (green card holder), but naturalization is a totally different process. Temp green cards are usually issued within a year of a completed application when the petitioner is a spouse of a resident US citizen and is already in the US. If you're dealing with it from abroad through consular officials, it can take a lot longer.

MichaeltheGreat · January 1, 2003, 21:00

Quote:

Originally posted by tandeetaylor
I'm sorry about the Nazi comment. Nazi Germany it is not, but oppressive and unfair it certainly is. And I did NOT call my countrymen nazis. ??

It's neither oppressive nor unfair. As a libertarian (IIRC) you believe in sovereignty, right? Non-citizen's rights to enter or remain in the US are conditional.

Quote:

My husband was illegal before I met him. I realize that that is his fault.

That may be a problem, depending on how long.

Quote:

I think we are going to talk to a lawyer. And we are going to go and register. I think that our friends will take care of us financially for a little while if he is detained. I think the hardest part will be thinking about where he is and what he might be going through.

That's a little overboard. He'll be in some Federal detention, until an immigration hearing and bond is set, at the worst. Since he's legally married and a green card applicant, and would have come in voluntarily to register, odds are really high that he'd be released OR. (own recognizance, i.e. without bail)

Quote:

Once he went to jail for about 16 hours because of failure to pay a ticket, and it was just horrible...

It's not a picnic in the park, but it's not life-shattering either. Sounds to me like you're making waaaaaaaay too much of things.

tandeetaylor · January 1, 2003, 21:51

I have a two month old baby and the possibility of having my husband unable to work for an uncertain amount of time (he should be getting his work permission soon, btw). I don't think I'm making too much of anything. I can't just go and get a job and make enough to pay what we are paying now plus babysitting fees. I think that there are people that would help us, but I don't want to count on that, people have their own problems...

Tell me what's wrong with Lebanon. I just read about that American who was killed in November. I don't really want to move to Lebanon, we have a car loan and a lease, but I don't think I want to live in the US anymore.

MichaeltheGreat · January 1, 2003, 22:05

Lebanon has just been a festering shithole of civil war, factional fighting, and fanaticism for a few decades, but they've more or less chilled out recently, for the time being, until something else comes along.

Inverse Icarus · January 1, 2003, 22:09

MTG said the S word!

if you want to move to lebanon, well, good luck.

you could both go to britian and become citizens there, couldn't you? or some other not-so-war-torn country?

tandeetaylor · January 1, 2003, 22:13

As far as I know the civil war ended a little over ten years ago, didn't it?

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 22:16

Quote:

Originally posted by tandeetaylor
Tell me what's wrong with Lebanon.

Terrorism, civil war, and fundimentalist Islam. There's no real government, which might fit in well with your libertarian beliefs, but you would find out real quick that power falls to those with the most guns. The modern amenities which you take for granted are pactically non-existant. We are talking about a country that has been in a civil war and foreign occupation for almost thirty years. It's no longer the modern society it once was.

Plus, you won't have any support network, and your husband will be under strong pressure to start acting "like a man" and put his wife "in her place." Lebanon isn't known for respecting women's rights.

America sucks in many ways, but at least it's founded on Enlightenment beliefs. If you wish to leave, move laterally or forwards, not backwards. This is like jumping out of the fridge into the fire.

If you want to be a pioneer for women's rights in Lebanon, I salute you. But if you have that kinda moxie, why not stay here and fight injustice at home?

On the other hand, the food in Lebanon is fantastic.

DanS · January 1, 2003, 22:17

"The INS needs serious overhaul. Remember this was the same group that issued all sorts of paperwork to the hijackers. My faith in their efficiency is very low."

I'll subscribe to that statement. However, I would note that the reason it's this way, is because the politics of immigration created it that way.

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 22:19

Quote:

Originally posted by tandeetaylor
As far as I know the civil war ended a little over ten years ago, didn't it?

There are still skimishes and the country is still divided up amongst various warlords. The Christians are fascists and the Muslims either get their funding from Iran or from the Wahabists in the Gulf.

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 22:34

IIRC, the US still has a travel advisory against going to Lebanon.

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 22:42

I thought the Syrians were keeping things in order? That's not the case?

chequita guevara · January 1, 2003, 22:49

Only in parts of the country. They never occupied the whole thing. IIRC, they've been pulling out of Lebanon.

MichaeltheGreat · January 1, 2003, 22:55

Quote:

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I thought the Syrians were keeping things in order? That's not the case?

Order in Lebanon is a very relative term.

David Floyd · January 1, 2003, 23:14

Quote:

PS, I'll kick in to ship Floyd to Khartoum.

Really? Well, I'll kick in to, well, kick you in the face.

And Khartoum is in Sudan, not Somalia, jackass

David Floyd · January 1, 2003, 23:15

Quote:

It's neither oppressive nor unfair. As a libertarian (IIRC) you believe in sovereignty, right? Non-citizen's rights to enter or remain in the US are conditional.

Libertarians believe in open borders.

Jack_www · January 1, 2003, 23:15

tandeetaylor the more I hear of the details of your situation the less i think that you in trouble. I dont think they will deport him and if he can work in US i am pretty sure he can live here too.

As far as if he gets detained by INS, just try and come up with some sort of plan to make ends meat. Maybe move in with a friend if he gets detained. Who knows they might not hold him and everything will be ok.