Observations on Domai

[Hydro]

Observations on Domai

I’ve played SMAC/X for a while now. For me the initial and continuing appeal is the setting, depth of its characters, and how they interact. Accordingly, the factions I have played reflect the degree to which I can get into their minds and understand and execute their philosophy (whether I agree with it or not). Occasionally I’ll play a faction out of raw curiosity, but this is rare. My favorite role-playing factions are Gaians, Hive, and UoP for the originals, and Aki in SMAX. Honorable mention goes to the PK (who are insufferably bland, and therefore hard to role play), Spartans (Korn-style conquering is not my bag, and it is way too easy against the AI. Plus I feel sorry for the AI, who in many cases did nothing to deserve my wrath), and Pirates (who I have a hard time buying as a realistic faction).

Recently the esteemed Googlie suggested I was missing out on a very powerful and rich faction: The Drones. So I fired up a couple of games. Here are my observations. These will by no means be original – I am just throwing these out to see if anyone else has anything to add by way of how the faction is played or how they are role-played. (My settings: average erosion, random huge world, average landmasses, dense cloud cover since this benefits the AI, average or heavy native, double blind tech, random AI factions)

Early Game (aka Please Don’t Hurt Me)
All the factions are weak and vulnerable in the early game, and the Drones are especially weak due to their poor research ability. The early game lasted a very long time for my Drones, and all the other factions quickly pulled ahead. In my games I constantly found that I ran out of things to build and ended up building fairly worthless units that could be later scrapped, but this tied down support in an unpleasant way. Moreover, because growth and industry aren’t balanced (like it is with the Hive) expansion is not assisted by the industry advantage. This means that the Drones are likely to be as small or smaller than other expansive faction due to a combination of low tech, average to low expansion, and a poor military. The upshot is that the AI will consider you small and weak, and therefore a victim, and will be less likely to trade or sell those important early techs, and may not even consider important treaties or pacts. In all my games I had to make the hard decision of whether to pay extortion to avoid vendetta. If I could I did, since I had few bases and little or no military.

Mid Game (aka Glad I Survived – Can’t We Be Friends?)
After the basic level 1 and 2 techs are under your belt in the late early game the Drones are in much better position to expand, and the industry advantage starts to make a difference. Note that the Mid Game is generally a lot later than it is for other factions due to poor tech. It is generally way behind the researchers, and even behind the classic hybrid factions like Gaians, PK, and Spartans. Basic facilities go up fairly quickly, allowing the all important pop boom to occur. The niftiest thing I found is that the industry advantage really kicks in for secret projects, especially if running planned wealth. If some other faction hasn’t snapped up the SPs then the Drones can build these fairly quickly. More importantly, due to fast facilities and a little judicious pop booming the tech lag starts to disappear. Parity is achieved.

Late Mid Game (aka Workers of Planet Unite! You Have Nothing To Lose But Your Chains!)
By this time (in SP) the Drones get pretty gross. However, all the factions are pretty gross by now. Interestingly, the industry advantage is no longer useful. Why? Because any faction at this stage is producing so much energy that production is no longer nearly as important. Who cares if you can build a clean trained fusion chaos chopper in 4 turns. Just buy it! Fusion labs or hybrid forests? Bah! Just buy it! At this stage all the factions seem pretty much the same. In my opinion, the flavor is in the early game and the early mid game.

Role Playing the Drones
I had a real hard time getting into the mind of Domai. His overall philosophy is very similar to the Hive except that it has a less authoritarian emphasis. This may be the main problem – he is like a sub-faction and does not seem to have a unique set of ideals. That said the Drones play very differently from the Hive, since their poor research and growth limits expansion and generally hinders their ability to take a number of impact rovers to help an adjacent faction see the joys of communal egalitarian society. I see him as wanting to enable revolution, but he just can’t do it when he need to. I can also see him as a builder (to enable a worker’s utopia), but he gets off to such a slow start that he would probably be a hybrid. But he can’t do that, either, until very late (sigh). In the end it is probably a matter of personal preference. As a role-played Domai he can’t do what he wants, and that is a frustrating and unsatisfying experience.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hydro,

Good points and about the way I would expect given the game set up you described.

With Domai in a double blind or for that matter any tech restrictive way (tech stag included) Domai is a much weaker faction. In a directed role or in a spoils of war situation, Domai fares much better.

Directed situation:

Domai needs to beeline to Industrial Economics and go FM ASAP to counter his research penalty. His inherent drone quelling ability allows him to continue with size 2 bases w/o drone riot and still pump out colony pods. Soon he has rec commons and with industry bonus can plop these down quickly.

(I liken this to my approach with Lal. I tend to go FM ASAP during initial expansion of pods as I try to keep bases at size 2 all the while tearing through the tech tree until Industrial Auto then I usually switch to Demo/Planned. In Lal's case it helps overcome his efficiency losses in te early game)

Spoils On

Domai has the ability to churnout endless troops albeit of inferior quality due to his poor research but quantity over quality. The red wave soon overwhelms the opposition (assuming you can get them there and aren't surrounded by water). As a consequence spoils on allows Domai the ability to even tech parity quickly.

As a side note: In the event spoils are off, probes are a must for Domai. Granted it may be a while until Domai can get Planetary Net but he absolutely needs to capture a high tech weapon unit or steal a tech or two and going FM early should allow him the cash to do so.

All in all tho' I would agree, Domai is weak but like a runaway train builds unstoppable momentum its simply a matter of lasting through the tough early days. The key is to get through the early days ASAP and to my mind FM is key to that.

[mark13]

Yeah, I would second the FM - that drone advantage is bigger than you first realise. Another thing I have noticed about Domai is that, in the early/mid game especially, you have to watch how much you build - maintenance problems quickly become apparent, and you begin to lose energy quickly.

I also agree that probes are a must, in order to gain technological parity with the opposition. The industry costs will inevitably balance out the research penalty, whilst giving their own distinct advantage.

Also a nice advantage is that he doesn't really have any great SE disadvantages - he can pop boom without trouble; he can get to +2 economy without trouble, heck, he can even get to +3 morale if you are on a war footing. His only aversion being a future society helps his mid-game flexibility tremendously.

In conclusion, I would think that the Drones would be almost unstoppable if it wasn't for the fact that he doesn't get any research points for ten years. He is like a juggernaut - he takes a while to get going, but once he does, he is unstoppable.

[Hydro]

Ogie and Mark13,

In my games poor Domai doesn't even get terraformers for 30 or 40 years, and in my last game not for 50. For him I put getting nifty stuff like tanks, banks, and nodes at the end of his early phase and probably the beginning of the mid game.

I agree that dem/planned/wealth are his role-playing set points for SE. FM seems unnatural. Note that this means he has a 0 efficiency, so will have energy loss problems (everyone else gets to go green when not in growth phase, but not Domai). Here is one item I don't quite get. Why no green? FM would seem to be his more natural aversion. To bump efficiency he has to go dem/survival/knowledge.

Regardless, in my games Domai doesn't even get to the end of his early game until nearly 100 years are up. Then he booms once or twice, people start liking him because he is no longer puny, and the juggernaught begins. His late early phase is short, as is his early mid phase.

Probes are a good idea. However, Domai gets Information Networks so late that they are hard to use, although he can build scads of them. Also, when he needs them is the same phase where he is desperately trying NOT to tick anyone off. By the time he can do it the tactic isn't nearly as important, although it would compliment an assault on a faction that is abusing its poor workers (as it always does).

Hydro

[Fitz]

quote: Originally posted by Hydro on 11-21-2000 01:20 PM I agree that dem/planned/wealth are his role-playing set points for SE. FM seems unnatural. Note that this means he has a 0 efficiency, so will have energy loss problems (everyone else gets to go green when not in growth phase, but not Domai). Here is one item I don't quite get. Why no green? FM would seem to be his more natural aversion. To bump efficiency he has to go dem/survival/knowledge.

Drones are industrial workers, thus they have an aversion to green. Free Market makes perfect sense, as long as you look at it as free trade amongst equals. Wealth seems more unnatural than Free Market to me, Power would be much more natural.

[mark13]

Are we sure green is his aversion? I was always under the impression it was thought control - but I haven't really played him enough to notice anything....

[Hydro]

Mark13,

Yup. Domai's aversion is Green Economics. He could run police/FM/knowledge - which in my mind would be the antithesis of what he stands for.

Fritz,

Hmmm. Free market usually means get government out of it and let corporations rule. In the States it goes by the synonym 'trickle down economics', and it benefits the elites much more than the workers (despite the slogan 'when the tide comes in everyone's boat rises'). That doesn't sound like a worker's paradise to me. As for green, all that means is efficiency (recycling, reuse, controlled growth) with a planet boost thrown in for a reason I can't fathom. Why would the workers be hostile to that? Look at our current green parties - social progressives (e.g. - power to the workers) and environmental conservation. After all, whose environment is going to be despoiled? Corporate executives? Why, the worker's environment of course - those with the least power. In the States there is a movement called Environmental Justice, which objects to the disproportionate amount of pollution in poor areas of blue collar workers. They have a point, and I think Domai would agree with them.

Just my 2 cents.

Hydro

[Fitz]

HMMm...

I think both you and I don't credit the power of the SE choices (the ones we're supporting) strongly enough to account for the bonuses and penalties. I usually think of the SE choices as a complete version of what it represents.

Green is therefor harmony with nature, vegans all , environmental regulation of every aspect of life, strict recycling and efficieny programs, careful population regulation, and careful attention and study of Planet to become familiar with it. The workers are strictly controlled to make sure that they do not enhance themselves at the cost of the environment. (Well, if you combine it with Police State ). In a Democratic Green society, I would expect workers to be controlled by laws passed by the people themselves. But either way, despite the lack of an Industry penalty, Green has always implied a setback to industrial working environment, with control being decided by what is beneficial to the Planet.

Free Market is economic right makes right, unlimited industrial pollution if it is profitable, zero controls in the marketplace, zero controls on ethics in business. The wealthy have more power, and certainly can dominate the political arena. But each person has the ability to suceed in the market, given sufficient resources or ability to start with. In a Police State Free Market, I can envision the wealthy dominating the workers, yes. But I can also envision the workers (industry) controlling the rest of society to their benefit. In a Democratic Free Market, the weight of all those workers' votes would enable them to dominate the political scene, restricting the market in terms of workers' rights, put still leaving the RL restrictions (pollution controls, monopoly controls) off.

Planned is obviously the most likely Drone choice. A carefully regimented economy, that benefits the worker above all else, is priority. When combined with political choices, it provides the reins of control to either the party leadership, the workers themselves, or a theocratic leadership.

The Values line give me much more problem.

I have to say, my personal favorite SE choice is Police State/Green with Power if I get the CV SP, or Knowledge if I don't. I'm def most comfortable with the bonuses and negatives those settings give.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

M13,

Good point on the maintenance cost issue. It's a trap you can fall into quite easily with Domai. B/c of that I tend to prioritze build of facilites as follows:

Recycle Tanks
Rec commons - to allow size 3 or greater
Energy Banks

then

Net nodes etc.

The banks help the energy influx and offset the maintenance issues long term (plus even if I get PEG it still doesn't seem to prevent the energy overload events that real Energy banks do maybeits my imagination).

One other small point, If Domai is lucky enough to find or be seeded with a unity transport, it behooves him greatly to get out and make early contact prior to him running any SE choice (esp wealth). In doing so he can make friends and hopefully be a tech broker, trading from one faction to another. As such he will slow down everyone elses tech gain rate (including unfortunately his own) and gain tech parity in the process. In the long run all Domai needs is tech parity in the early/mid game. Later on he will be nigh unstoppable.

One last point,

Hydro, regarding playing Domai in character, I would submit that in order to play Domai (at least in my mind) in character preferable SE choices are Demo/Planned/Wealth. FM to me would be his antithesis as it represents the capitalistic society and little to no job security as a result of free trade (similar to the world trade organization riots by organized labor). That being said I find playing him in that fashion leads exactly to the circumstances you describe, whilst playing him to the FM SE choices gives him a different feel albeit not in character (at least to my mind).

Og
[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited November 21, 2000).]

[Skanderbeg]

The drones are one of the factins I like must.
They have a slow start, but their time will come.
My opinion is, that in the early game, it is important to trade tech (or to buy it for every cost) to get the
basic technologies for survival (particel weapons,
plasma armour, defense perimeter and nerve gas if You
play against alien factions). With this techts, You
can stand against attacks from even stronger enemies, until the benefits of the drones begin to pay.

[VoodooChild]

Fitz: I understand where you are comming from, trying to picture how life is like on Crion under different SE choices, however I find that the effects are sometimes contradictory to the intent.

Take Green for instance.... Yes you have harmony with the planet, but this only allows your faction to rape it more without negitive effects.

Fudy... There are so many various ways to look at the philosiphy of fundy, but it would fit more if probes were limited in what they could do. No stealing techs or credits, cheaper costs to convert units or bases, higher chance to succeed / less chance to survive terroist attacks.

Bottom line is you take what is availalbe and make the best of it even if it doesn't fit the profile.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Just as a comparison game. I fired up Domai last night on a large world, average everything, directed research.

MY strategy was simple. First tech out of the box at 2110 is to start research of Industrial Economics, then back to Centauri Ecology. An immediate switch to FM as soon as I had 40 credits (and I did b/c in the first 10 years I simply adjusted econ so that I was gaining 4 credits per year).

Techs were rolling in at a rate of 5-7 turns per tech.

Techs then discovered were:
Net Nodes
Planetary Networks
Industrial Auto - MY 2140 ish switch to wealth techs back to 5 turns
Back to Social Psych
Rec tanks
Demo
.....

By MY 2160-70 ish I had nabbed - WP, HGP, Merchant Xchange, VW, PTS, and was working on Empath guild. I hadn't missed a single SP but was in danger of losing Command Nexxus to the hive.

Other factions were (all random)

Hive
Miriam
Booger
Zak
Cheese Head
Machine head


Now granted it was a good start (and against the AI )but it can be used to illustrate the huge impact blind/double blind has on Domai vs. directed approach also playing in character with respect to SE choices as well and the considerable impact to Domai's performance that implies.

Lastly,

I fully agree with others sentiments here regarding why disallowance of green vs. FM. I'll see if I can resurrect the thread that I was argueing the point that given Domai is pro-labor pro-job security it makes best sense that he would have an aversion to FM and the inequities it causes between the haves and have nots. While not happy with a green stance, labor's natural adversarial role to management (read capitalistic owner class) to my mind would be a more natural aversion than the Greenies.



[This message has been edited by Ogie Oglethorpe (edited November 22, 2000).]