Latvia, Lithuania & Estonia

Lancer · January 1, 2003, 13:14

Chock full of Rooskies. If they join NATO will the feel emboldened to throw the Russians out?

Erm, they're not in NATO yet are they? Too close to St Petersburg for comfort I'd guess...

Is the Russian mafia a problem for these knights of old?

Where is Saras anyway?

Any other Apolytoners from these baltic countries?

spartak · January 1, 2003, 13:16

Poor troll.

Chris 62 · January 1, 2003, 13:20

Lancer, they were admitted to Nato.

Solver · January 1, 2003, 13:26

We were invited to Nato and EU in late 2002, and will likely be there by 2004.

Lancer · January 1, 2003, 13:29

Good! Our jump off point will move deep into the Rooskie heartland!

In 2004 Chris

Taz, why is this a troll to you?

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 13:30

Solver is right.

Russian mafia is not a problem in Lithuania, it is often recognised as one of few former communist states where Russian mafia has almost no power.

I believe there are 3 Apolytoners from Baltic States:
2 from Lithuania (me (Sonic) and Saras)
1 from Latvia (Solver)
0 from Estonia

In Lithuania there are about 8% of "rooskies". Not so much, although I am not comfortable with them...

Solver · January 1, 2003, 13:33

There is one more from Latvia, but he's not a frequent poster unlike Sonic, Saras and me.

There are lots of Russians in Latvia, though, and I got to say that Russia hates us.

Lancer · January 1, 2003, 13:37

I would not feel comfortable with a population of invaders from the bad old days either. They forced their way in, can't you assist them on their way back out once NATO takes over?

Solver · January 1, 2003, 13:42

That would make us a police state if we kicked them all out.

Right now though, the Russian population in Latvia is a political concern to me. I mean, we're going to have a referendum on joining the EU in September, and many Russians will most probably vote against it, which might doom our chances of joining EU.

spartak · January 1, 2003, 13:46

Are not 51% of the population of Latvia actually Russian (although are non-citizens allowed to vote?)?

Solver · January 1, 2003, 13:49

No, Russians are less than 50% now. But I can't actually call them a "minority".

Non-citizens aren't allowed to vote, but many Russians have gained citizenship in the last years.

Dr Strangelove · January 1, 2003, 14:39

Does anyone here really think that NATO would approve of any member undertaking a mass expulsion of part of its population? I, for one, think that NATO would not approve. There was a considerable brouhaha in the 1970s when West Germany tried to send large numbers of guest workers home.

Lancer · January 1, 2003, 14:49

Doc, screw the brouhaha, han't Bush tought you anything?

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 14:56

Taz, from all former states only in Belarus the main nation is a minority I believe.

Percents of main nations and Russians in former Soviet countries (excluding Russia); stars (*) means that in a country Russian language is used in everyday bussines even by non-russians, two stars (**) means that the local language is almost non-existant anymore:

Armenia: 93%; 2%
Azerbaijan: 90%; 2.5%
Lithuania: 80.6%; 8.7%
Uzbekistan*: 80%; 5.5%
Turkmenistan*: 77%; 6.7%
Ukraine**: 73%; 22%
Georgia: 70.1%; 6.3%
Estonia: 65.3%; 28.1%
Tajikistan*: 64.9%; 3.5%
Moldova*: 64.5%; 13%
Latvia: 57.7%; 29.6%
Kazakhstan**: 53.4%; 30%
Kyrgystan**: 52.4%; 18%

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 15:03

Dr Stranglelove is probably right, but I think that if country would be in key position than NATO would support it whatever crimesi t would do... However, position of Baltic States isn't so strategic.

I do agree however that Russians should be expelled from Lithuania (ones who moved here since 1940)...

Lancer · January 1, 2003, 15:07

Sonic, that's not good. Might I suggest a bout of rampant nationalism and reeducation? Surely the original languages in those countries whose language is secondary can be retaught? Are thousands of years of history to be forgotten?

Remember the Welsh...

Who?

Exactly...

RedFred · January 1, 2003, 16:20

On the map there appears to be a tiny chunk of Russia which is cut off from the main part after independence of the Baltic states. How does that work? Does Russia get guaranteed land access to that region similar to West Berlin during the Cold War? Or is it not an issue?

VJ · January 1, 2003, 16:26

Quote:

On the map there appears to be a tiny chunk of Russia which is cut off from the main part after independence of the Baltic states. How does that work? Does Russia get guaranteed land access to that region similar to West Berlin during the Cold War? Or is it not an issue?

Russian army held it from Germans during WW2, it got separated from the province
of Lithuania during cold war USSR, now it's known as 'Kaliningrad', if that's what you mean...
They had some talks about special passports with EU few months ago...

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 16:36

RedFred, yes, they moves their people through Lithuania. That makes many attempts to jump out of trains and ask for assylum...

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 16:45

Lancer, probably it would be impossible to recreate those languages... There are either still many Russians, either situation is something like in Ireland - people are taught the state language in schools but still doesn't uses it anymore.

The only possible way to re-create those languages would probably be a forced teaching of them for all the people, requirement to learn them for any job requiring contact with people, and fining or even taking licence from companies which employ people not learned the state language to such positions... I am not sure werether such thing would be popular though, and inpopularity means that it wouldn't be implemented in democratic states. Especially given the percent of Russians and their certain opposition against such laws...

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 17:55

Is there a feeling of brotherhood among the 3 Baltic States?

For example, all of the Anglo countries (UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) are especially close allies and have a shared feeling of brotherhood. It's really easy to move between those countries since they share a common language, history, and military alliance.

Is this the case with the Baltic States? We USers all seem to lump them together as being similiar, so, being personally ignorant of their history, I don't know what would distinguish one from the other, and if there is a sort of "allied" relationship that exists among them.

Also please send more hot Baltic women to the USA.

Nubclear · January 1, 2003, 18:01

Russophobia is rampant in certain parts of the world

This thread proves it.

.000001/10.

Sonic · January 1, 2003, 18:24

Oh yes Tassadar, probably in certain countries it is. But Baltic States aren't one of them. My personal dislike of Russians comes from my personal experience and the past of my nation.

Ted Striker, there are about 1 million Lithuanian people in USA so it should be enough

.

As for the brotherhood of the Baltic States, probably there is some but not so much...

Ted Striker · January 1, 2003, 18:29

Perhaps you can loan us some ball players too now that our international teams officially SUCK.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/zydrun...skas/?nav=page

St Leo · January 1, 2003, 19:27

I was born in Latvia and lived there until I was 11.

Sonic, that's not good. Might I suggest a bout of rampant nationalism and reeducation? Surely the original languages in those countries whose language is secondary can be retaught?

No, they should all be learning English en masse.

Are thousands of years of history to be forgotten?

What does language have to do with history?

Is there a feeling of brotherhood among the 3 Baltic States?
For example, all of the Anglo countries (UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) are especially close allies and have a shared feeling of brotherhood. It's really easy to move between those countries since they share a common language, history, and military alliance.

There is, but you should keep in mind that "Baltic" in this case is a geographic definition. Estonia's language is from the Ugro-Finnish, rather than Baltic, family.

Lancer · January 2, 2003, 12:01

Screw englis, teach em American!

Solver · January 2, 2003, 12:10

Quote:

I was born in Latvia and lived there until I was 11.

Really? Where exactly were you born and lived?

Bereta_Eder · January 2, 2003, 12:17

what is the situation with the respect of human rights of the Russian minority?

I hear the balitcs are mistreating them in a major way.

Solver · January 2, 2003, 12:22

That's Russian propaganda Paiktis, I dare say. There's no major or any other mistreat of Russian minorities. It started a few years ago when police here used force to dissolve (?) an illegal strike, in which mostly russians have been participating.

Russia proceeded to announce that severe beatings of Russians by police are a regular fact here. Bullsh*t.

Sonic · January 2, 2003, 12:24

Paiktis, in Lithuania Russian minority has same rights as Lithuanian majority. And no force was ever used to dissolve strikes here...