No Science Succession ... Sticky Mice in Trouble! - Page 2

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 9, 2003, 00:53

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
We have, uh, three cities

And how many did YOU found?

In despotism we have to go with the best city sites. 3 cities are better than 7!

And don't feel bad about not using the hut finder... it takes all the fun out of it, IMO. Nice work finding those huts the old fashioned way.

STYOM looking forward to the next go-round...

-Jrabbit · January 9, 2003, 09:09

Uh, just one, and that by pure luck -- "found" is definitely the operative word.

Future cities: The NONE settler will create another distant outpost (unless brought home by trireme), and we have a settler doing road-grading between Kiev and St Pete as well.

Strongly considered pumping a couple settlers out of Moscow, but decided (against my better judgment, actually) to go ahead with the WoW.

Scouse Gits · January 9, 2003, 09:18

For my money you made the right decision to keep the HG - I just hope we can actually get it! Great good fortune with trade - may we be so lucky with Monarchy ...

Way to go DaveV....

SG[1]

-Jrabbit · January 9, 2003, 09:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
"Yes, we've finally hit a critical mass of smilies, such that there is a sufficiency of material to permit some solid basic communications. We Are... The Electronic Egyptians!!" - Jrabbit, on Apolyton communication

Just noticed this in your sig, STOYM.

AFAIK the first time this humble bunny has been so honored...

And as one who really digs the whole language-and-lingustics thing (especially the new language of the Web), this is especially sweet.

Thanks.

DaveV · January 9, 2003, 13:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Way to go DaveV....

Congratulations before the fact? Well, I have played my usual role as class bully.

-200 We are strong and our reputation is spotless. Thank heavens for small favors. Demographics show us 5th in production (boo!) and 1st in land area (yay!). Rushbuild elephant in Minsk. Empty cities make me nervous (especially with barb boats nearby). Settler who was mining an iron mountain in Greek/American backyard is told to stop. Change production in Kiev from phalanx to elephant. Americans sign cease fire, pay 50 gold for peace treaty. Tribute: Japan 75, Spain 50, Greece 50, India 50.
-175 Iron Mountain built (red face in Kiev). Tribute: Japan 50, Spain 50, America war, Greece 50, India 50. Spanish demonstrate the wonders of Monarchy. We gape with awe and amazement.
-150 Spanish exchange Monarchy for Astronomy, pay 100 gold tribute. Tribute: Japan 25, Americans 50 for peace, Greece 0, India 50. Revolution for upcoming Oedo year.
-125 DaveV is now Czar! Taxes to 70%. Tribute: Japan 50, Spain 100, America war, Greece war, India 50. Hut discovered at (80,62). Alt-Tab to hutfinder, it looks as though my predecessors have already found most of the goodies. With all this cash (1188 gold), it looks like time to go on the offensive. Rush barracks in Kiev and St. Petersbourg.
-100 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain 100, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece won't pay for peace, India 25.
-75 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain war, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece won't pay for peace, India 25. Minsk elephant kills barb legion, is promoted to veteran. Rushbuild elephants in Minsk, Kiev, and St. Petersbourg.
-50 Tribute: Japan 0, Spain won't pay for peace, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece pays 50 for peace, India 25. Chariot kils first of many horsemen approaching Moscow. New, non-vet elephant dies attacking barb legion near Minsk, but the vet finishes him (whew!).
-25 Tribute: Japan war, Spain: war, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece 0, India 0. Moscow chariot kills another barb horse. Hut at (80,62) yields a legion, supported by Minsk. Rushbuild elephants in Kiev, St. Petersbourg.
1 Tribute: Japan gives 50 for cease fire, won't pay for peace, Spain gives 50 for cease fire, won't pay for peace, America won't pay for cease fire, Greece 0, India war. Our pinned-down horseman decides to take 3 Indian units with him. Indians kill him

.
20 Tribute: Japan won't pay for peace, Spain: war, Greece: war, India won't talk. Hut at (78,68) yields 50 gold. Rushbuild elephant in Kiev, 3/4 elephant in St. Petersbourg.
40 Aaarrrggghh! Barbs appear near Moscow to threaten the caravan that I've been marching across the wilderness this whole time! Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: war, Greece: war, India pays 50 for cease fire. Boston captured with the loss of one vet elephant, America refuses to pay for cease fire, I discover that they have an archer stacked under a warrior adjacent to Boston. Ooops, I should have settled for a cease fire. Another vet elephant lost. Moscow is threatened, rushbuild Hanging Gardens for 332 gold so more defenders can be purchased. American archer dies attacking my vet elephant in Boston, warrior kills him, but at least I'll hold the city now. Whew, again! Barbs kill my caravan.
60 Moscow builds HG, rushes a horseman to deal with barbs. Rush 25 shields toward an elephant in Kiev. Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: 50 for cease fire, Greece: 50 for cease fire, India: war. Chariot moves out of Moscow to kill a barb horse.
80 Barb horse kills my chariot near Moscow. New horseman in Moscow kills barb horse and leader, is promoted to veteran. Hut at (72,66) yields 1 barb legion, 6 barb horses. Tribute: Japan: 0, Spain: 0, America: war, Greece: war, India: 0.
100 Barbs kill my legion. Tribute: Japan: war, Spain: war, America: war, Greece: war, India: 50 for cease fire. Hut at (79,79) yields 50 gold. Moscow elephant kills barb horsemen. Americans have nearly completed Pyramids

. American warrior dies attacking my vet legion on a hill.
120 Tribute: Japan: war, Spain: 50 for cease fire, Greece: war, India: war. I kill a warrior and settler that are blocking the approach to Washington. Hut at (85,79) yields Construction. Rushbuild elephant in Kiev. Washington build Pyramids, Indians abandon Pyramids.
140 Tribute: Japan: 50 for cease fire, Spain: war, Greece: 50 for cease fire, India: war. We kill an American warrior outside Washington.

Bold text and formatting edited.

La Fayette · January 9, 2003, 14:25

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveV

-125 DaveV is now Czar!

American warrior dies attacking my vet legion on a hill.

He sure deserves it

...since he seems to have been fighting many battles harder than this one

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 9, 2003, 14:28

Monarchy!!!

Now we can go kick some *ss... err... SG's, this wasn't an AC game was it?

Scouse Gits · January 9, 2003, 14:58

Thanks Dave

An awesome demonstration of the total war approach early in the game.

STYOM - With Science @ 0% you can do anything

Straybow You have the pleasure of controlling Moscow Centre. If you can finish quickly you'll make two old gits happy as we can play our turns on Friday night

---------------------------

SG(2)

-Jrabbit · January 9, 2003, 21:42

Wow. DaveV lives in a different world than I do. No wonder I spend the early game poor and alone. I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

Sorry to hear that precious Van didn't make it across the plains to Moscow...

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 9, 2003, 22:05

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Wow. DaveV lives in a different world than I do. No wonder I spend the early game poor and alone. I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

You're not alone, though you may be poor

. I know I should demand tribute, but I keep forgetting and ending my turn... and then forgetting the next turn as well. Sort of like my use of the oedo tables ("OK, I revolt in 2 turns"... then 4 turns later I remember that thought, and say to myself "OK, in 2 MORE turns I revolt"... and so on...

)

I didn't document my tribute demands fully, but I remembered to ask the Greeks, Indians, Japanese and Americans about once every 2 turns. And I gather that if you have significant land forces on the same continent as the AI - particularly, if you outnumber them - they will ALWAYS cough up tribute, if they have 25+ gold.

Straybow · January 10, 2003, 01:23

I am partially recovered from the Apolytonian seige of the Aztecs. I'll not be able to finish building canals

for Mother Russia in time for SGs' Friday night ~~drinking~~ gaming session.

-Jrabbit · January 10, 2003, 09:30

Clearly it gives the AI an oppty to change status re peace treaties etc. Does this have any effect on reputation (or anything else)?

DaveV · January 10, 2003, 11:26

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
I am woefully underinformed in the area of consistently demanding tribute from all and sundry.

Tribute is an extremely powerful weapon against the AI (some would say overpowered

). Draining the AIs' treasuries limits their ability to rush units/wonders, bribe cities, or even defend against bribery if that's your cup of tea. And the cash thus raised can be used to build more military, which makes the AIs even more willing to pay protection money. Not very effective against overseas empires, but almost unfairly effective on big contintents. MGE "aggressive" AI only makes it easier, since it's so simple to goad AIs into declaring war so you can conquer them with no reputation hit. And, if you're not ready to fight them yet, they'll pay for a cease fire as soon as they have enough cash.

The only drawback is the tedium of making the rounds every turn to point out how it would be a shame if your goons accidentally broke something in the AI's empire. And, of course, some people have moral misgivings about exploiting the AI.

Demanding tribute has no impact on reputation, as long as your troops don't attack and violate a cease fire/peace treaty. Of course, if the AI cancels the treaty in response to a later extortion demand, that's not your fault...

Quote:

Originally posted by -Jrabbit
Sorry to hear that precious Van didn't make it across the plains to Moscow...

It was only one turn from delivery, too. You win some, you lose some (the rest get rained out).

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 10, 2003, 12:00

Not to get too far off topic, but tribute is a good reason to stay out of Republic and in Monarchy, in the early game.

Rather than having taxes turned up to 20 or 30% in Republic, you can turn them off in Monarchy, put the slider up in Luxuries by an equivalent margin... then your cities celebrate, collecting trade arrows as a Republic does. You make up for the loss of tax revenue by demanding tribute, plus you have no senate interference in wartime. The only downside I can think of is the lack of WLTPD growth.

rjmatsleepers · January 11, 2003, 03:11

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveV

Tribute is an extremely powerful weapon against the AI.

The only drawback is the tedium of making the rounds every turn to point out how it would be a shame if your goons accidentally broke something in the AI's empire.

I tried demanding tribute for the first time yesterday and it worked a treat.

And when they declared war I got money for the cease fire and more for the peace treaty.

I was asking for tribute every other round, but DaveV says to ask every round. Do the AI civs react differently if you ask too often, or do they just go on paying whenever they have the money?

RJM at Sleepers

Straybow · January 11, 2003, 06:26

0160 Washington's Phalanx falls before the thundering charge of heffalumps. Our
–––– newest province is dominated by the Pyramids, and thus our awed peasants
–––– are inspired to create granaries in every city. The phenomenon isn't easily
–––– explained by our wise men.

0180 New York's defending Archers bravely (and futilely) aim for the eyes of our
–––– fearsome eleys. 8 gold are recovered from the ruins (26 had been plundered
–––– from Washington).
0220 Our antarctic explorer discovers wandering nomads (boy are they lost

).

0240 Explorer discovers the nomads' angry neighbors. Fortunately, they get lost
–––– before they decide to vent their anger on our explorer. Indian eley killed.
0300 Indian settlers killed outside Madras.
0320 Indian Legion killed in Madras. Indians kill our damaged eley.
0360 Barb leader wanders away from his escort—150g

0380

Straybow the Nincompoop vaguely remembers some advice about
–––– collecting tribute at every opportunity. Greeks ask for peace, it's worth 50g
–––– to them. Spanish sue for peace, and give our emissary 75g to make it worth
–––– our time. Indians do the same. Good, 'coz we've only 2 eleys left nearby, and
–––– we've got an explorer wandering nearby. Been busy with settlers and ships.

0400 Baltimore founded near Washington (canal

)
0420 Barbs kill Minsk settler

Adv tribe Sevastapol on island S of Kiev

Straybow · January 11, 2003, 06:38

Convinced that Mother Russia exists primarily for the purpose of building canals, a Great Plan is put forth. Straybow's heirs immediately decide he's hit the vodka too much. Straybow retires to take the position of Imperial Surveyor of the Great Canal.

-Jrabbit · January 14, 2003, 14:41

Looks

like the SGs are up next.

FYI, I'll be away from home base through Sunday and thus unable to play. Will be forced to play golf in LA instead.

Looking at the rota, that shouldn't hold things up. Go get 'em Gits!!

Ben Kenobi · January 15, 2003, 03:18

"Our newest province is dominated by the Pyramids, and thus our awed peasant are inspired to create granaries in every city. The phenomenon isn't easily explained by our wise men."

-Straybow

I'll give it a shot. The real life Nile floods every year enriching the delta with fertile mud. Unfortunately all the fields get rearranged every time. The pyramids create a reference point, allowing land plots to be re-established more quickly, increasing yearly food production and city growth.

How's that?

Scouse Gits · January 15, 2003, 05:09

Quote:

Originally posted by rjmatsleepers
I was asking for tribute every other round, but DaveV says to ask every round. Do the AI civs react differently if you ask too often, or do they just go on paying whenever they have the money?

In my experience demanding cash every other turn - alternating with swapping maps - works well if you want to keep the neighbours sweet.
In this game we have no such intentions so acting like greedy imperial rodents is just showing our true colours

SG[1]

Straybow · January 16, 2003, 18:12

Is anybody playing this round??

Scouse Gits · January 16, 2003, 20:25

Yep ... both Gits will play a double-header on Friday night

----------------------

SG(2)

Hydey · January 17, 2003, 01:53

Must have a case of wine for a double-header

Scouse Gits · January 17, 2003, 17:06

Happy to oblige - wine caravan delivered to (2)'s - Gits on the job

The SGs

Scouse Gits · January 17, 2003, 17:16

Yikes - it's difficult to utilise eins when your largest city is size 3!!!

The SGs loading their robust constructive criticism cannon!

Six Thousand Year Old Man · January 17, 2003, 17:35

*puts on anti-robust constructive criticism hat*

Scouse Gits · January 17, 2003, 22:34

First priority was to improve the infrastructure then to go for the war academy - choose your favourite target...
0440 = Feudalism from Spain; Nada from all else
0460 = MarketPlace in Moscow; Temple in Washington; Japanese 100g; Spain War; Greeks War; Indians nada
0480 = Temple Minsk; Japan War; Spain War; Greeks 100g for CF; Indians War
0500 = Harbour Moscow; 400,000; Japan War; Spain 100+100 Peace; Greeks War; Indians 100 CF;
0520 = hut Tbilisi; Japan War; Spain 0; Greeks 50 CF; Indians 50 Peace;
0540 = We are the MOST ADVANCED nation! No tribute;
0560 = 500,000; Beads Kiev-StP 24; Sverdlovsk; Japan 50 CF; Spain, Greece 0; Indians War;
0580 = Courthouse Kiev; Trondheim(Indian) razed 6g; Greeks 50 Peace; Indians 150 CF;
0600 = 600,000; Salt Wash-Bost 12; No tribute; We have an Ein in Moscow;
0620 = Temple Sevastapol, Kiev; We start research on Bridge Building; Salt Mosc-Kiev 44; Yakutsk; Vladivostok; hut Navigation a trade killer

; No tribute, War with Indians

(they have a stack next to our vet legion!) they had a stack next to our vet legion;
0640 = Harbour StPete; 700,000; Novgorod; Japan 50 Peace;
0660 = Harbour Kiev; Krasnoyarsk; hut 25g

; Beads Iron-Athens 6

; We are Supreme; Japan War; Spain 75; Greeks War; Indians 50;
0680 = 800,000; Riga; Spain 50;
0700 = Market Kiev; hut 50; Spain 25; Greeks 50 CF;
0720 = Boston Temple; Spain 25; India 50;
0740 = 900,000; Japan 50 CF; Spain 25; Greece 50 Peace;
0760 = 1M; Spain 25;
0780 = Temple Baltimore; Rostov; Japan War; Spain 25;
0800 = Temple Iron Mount, Moscow; Indians War;
0820 = Market St Pete; Beads Mosc-Wash 38; Spain 50; India 50 CF;
0840 = Temple Sverdlovsk; India War;
0860 = Sun Tzu Boston; Astrakhan; Hides Iron-Athens 6; Japan 50 CF;
Don't forget to sell the last couple of barracks ...

The SGs well pissed after 5 and a half hours of solid drinking...