Unit Updater for Super Apolyton Pack 2

[Tamerlin]

I would like to adapt the Cradle's Unit_Updater.slc to the Super Apolyton Pack 2. The translation is easy as the hard part of the work (the code, the template... actually all the real work) has already been done by Peter Trigg (I originally wrote Hexagonian as I thought he was the author). I have thought about the Update Paths but I would like to know what the modders as well as the possible users are thinking about them before modifying Hexagonian's slc file.

What I call Dead End Units are the units which I think should not be included in any Update path and thus can't be updated.

I still have an important question for Hexagonian: how have you computed the Per Unit Update Costs in your Cradle mod?

Update Paths

Hoplite>Pikemen>Infantryman>Machine Gunner>Marine>Hover Infantry

Knight>Cavalry>Tank>Fusion Tank

Fighter>Interceptor>Stealth Fighter

Bomber>Stealth Bomber

Archer>Mounted Archer>Cavalry

Diplomat>Empathic Diplomat

Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line>Ironclad>Battleship>Plasma Destroyer

Destroyer>Plasma Destroyer

Catapult>Cannon>Artillery>Mobile SAM>War Walker

Coracle>Longship>Carrack>Troop Ship

Submarine>Nuclear Submarine>Moray Striker

Priest>Televangelist

Spy>Cyber Ninja

Kraken>Dreadnaught


Dead End units

Abolitionist
Aircraft Carrier
Cargo Helicopter
Corporate Branch
Crawler
Cruise Missile
Eco Ranger
Eco Terrorist
Fascist
Infector
Lawyer
Leviathan
Nuke
Paratrooper
PT Boat
Samurai
Scout Sub
Sea Engineer
Settler
Slaver
Space Plane
Spy Plane
Urban Planner
Warrior

[Immortal Wombat]

The translation is easy as the hard part of the work (the code, the template... actually all the real work) has already been done by Hexagonian

um, that would be Peter Triggs' code actually

[Martin the Dane]

Well good idea. But I don't agree on the update paths.

First Warriors have a different function from Hoplites and Pikemenn, the first is a good scout and mediocre defender, the two later are lousy scouts but excelent defenders. Infantrymenn eventually replaced both and archers as well.

Warrior        \ 

(Archer)        >Infantryman>Machine Gunner>Marine>Hover Infantry

Hoplite>Pikemen/

Second Cavalery replaced both Knights and Mounted Archers, maybe Archers should be upgraded to Infantrymen paralell with Wariors and Pikemen

Knight                 \

                        >Cavalry>Tank>Fusion Tank

(Archer)>Mounted Archer/

The Coracle is an unarmed troop carier, and it sounds strange to have a Battleship upgraded to a Destroyer type ship. I'm not sure I think the ships should be upgradeable at all, but if they are upgradeable it should be:

Coracle>Longship>Drakkar>Carrack>Troop Ship



Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line>Ironclad>Battleship(>Plasma Destroyer)

[Maquiladora]

Mounted archers shouldnt be upgraded to Cavalry, thats too easy and mounted archers arent flankers either.

Mounted archers should be a dead end, warriors to infantrymen is... too weird. Id have warriors upgradable to samurai then a dead end, or if not that then warriors should be dead end too.

Everything else i agree with Martin.

Is Longship named Drakkar on the french version?

[Martin the Dane]

Maq you have a point concerning Mounted Archers' lack of flanking ability, but if the price is high enough?

My reasoning for upgrading Wariors to Infantrymen is that Wariors have the same function as Infantrymen, but I do agree that it's a bit strange to make that jump.

Samurais have a major weakness when used as scouting units, beside being quite expensive: They lack the virion range. Personally I'm not sure I would make the upgrade.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Is Longship named Drakkar on the french version?

Yes it is.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat um, that would be Peter Triggs' code actually

As it has been included in the Cradle mod I assumed Hexagonian wrote the code...

[hexagonian]

No the credit goes to Peter on this - and it is probably one of the most important pieces of SLIC coding to come out, IMO, because it makes RB gold very valuable, and it keeps the AI forces up-to-date.

I set the upgrade costs to be the same as the production costs for the more advanced unit. So if the newer unit costs 1000 production, then the upgrade cost for the older unit would be 1000 gold.

The default game does generate a lot of gold for the player (I'm not sure how much Dale tampered with the gold settings for the Pack), so what you can also do is go into the APOL_govern.txt file and bump up the coefficients for Rush Buying in each government.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
Maq you have a point concerning Mounted Archers' lack of flanking ability, but if the price is high enough?

A high enough price would certainly even out the power of this upgrade, but it still looks abit weird. Add to this that mounted archers only ever get used as either scouting units or fast ranged partners for knights or samurai, and knights upgrade to cavalry already so, this upgrade wouldnt be my choice...

Samurais have a major weakness when used as scouting units, beside being quite expensive: They lack the virion range. Personally I'm not sure I would make the upgrade.

Yeah thats why i wasnt sure, but if we try to keep with (slightly obscure) historical accuracy, warriors to samurai just fits nicely, although both have very different uses in the game, especially as samurai are special forces aswell. (not that anyone changes their military readiness settings)

So Warriors dead end and Samurai dead end, to keep the game more focused on unit uses, which is more sensible for gameplay.

My reasoning for upgrading Wariors to Infantrymen is that Wariors have the same function as Infantrymen, but I do agree that it's a bit strange to make that jump.

Well the warrior is an attack unit (albeit a crap one) and infantry is defensive, so id go for warriors as a dead end again.


I wouldnt have upgrades for non-combat units either. Upgrading a settler to a urban planner your buying 2 pop points, you could build loads of settlers then upgrade when you get urban planners.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
First Warriors have a different function from Hoplites and Pikemenn, the first is a good scout and mediocre defender, the two later are lousy scouts but excelent defenders. Infantrymenn eventually replaced both and archers as well.

You are right, I started with the idea to associate defenders with defenders but it made for very short upgrade path or for very long delays between each upgrade. I think the warrior can be a "dead end" and the upgrade path could start with the Hoplite.

Second Cavalery replaced both Knights and Mounted Archers, maybe Archers should be upgraded to Infantrymen paralell with Warriors and Pikemen

My idea was to associate ranged units together but you have a very good point here, I will edit my first post just after my answer.

The Coracle is an unarmed troop carier...

It has an attack strength, can carry a unit and is available with the next tech on the same line as the Longship on the poster. This explains why I thought it was logical to upgrade the Coracle to the Longship though it does not explain why I have put the Coracle on the wrong update path.

...it sounds strange to have a Battleship upgraded to a Destroyer type ship.

I looked at their abilities and thought they have more or less the same role on the battlefield, I am not sure the Activision team choosed the name according to the military classification used by the navies of the real naval power.

Fire Trireme>Ship of the Line>Ironclad>Battleship(>Plasma Destroyer)

I am reluctant to upgrade the Ship of the Line to Ironclad as I have some trouble to imagine doing anything else than sending some of those old wooden ships to a museum and use the other ones as firewood.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
No the credit goes to Peter on this - and it is probably one of the most important pieces of SLIC coding to come out, IMO, because it makes RB gold very valuable, and it keeps the AI forces up-to-date.

What is owned by Cesar has been given back to Cesar.

I set the upgrade costs to be the same as the production costs for the more advanced unit. So if the newer unit costs 1000 production, then the upgrade cost for the older unit would be 1000 gold.

Thanks for your answer, it will greatly ease my conversion. I should have figured it...

The default game does generate a lot of gold for the player (I'm not sure how much Dale tampered with the gold settings for the Pack), so what you can also do is go into the APOL_govern.txt file and bump up the coefficients for Rush Buying in each government.

As I am not a real modder I am a bit afraid to tinker with such important datas...

[hexagonian]

Looks like Dale did not tamper with govern.txt, as there is no APOL_govern.txt file. So he kept the government default, as is.

Anyhow, the entries look like this, in each government entry.

UnitRushModifier 4
BuildingRushModifier 3
WonderRushModifier 6
EndGameRushModifier 6

Simply increase the numbers - changing 4 to 8 means that the cost will be (8x) gold of the remaining production needed to complete the item instead of (4x) gold. Rush buying thus becomes more costly.

(and make a backup of the file before changing if you are hesitant)

Couple that with Upgrading costs and the player has a dilemma - either save your gold for the upgrade or RB a needed item. You end up having to do a lot more long-term planning.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
A high enough price would certainly even out the power of this upgrade, but it still looks abit weird. Add to this that mounted archers only ever get used as either scouting units or fast ranged partners for knights or samurai, and knights upgrade to cavalry already so, this upgrade wouldnt be my choice...

Your choice would then be a shorter Update Path like :

Archer>Mounted Archer

Yeah thats why i wasnt sure, but if we try to keep with (slightly obscure) historical accuracy, warriors to samurai just fits nicely, although both have very different uses in the game, especially as samurai are special forces aswell. (not that anyone changes their military readiness settings)

So Warriors dead end and Samurai dead end, to keep the game more focused on unit uses, which is more sensible for gameplay.

Warrior and Samurai are now dead end units.

I wouldnt have upgrades for non-combat units either. Upgrading a settler to a urban planner your buying 2 pop points, you could build loads of settlers then upgrade when you get urban planners.

You are right for the Settler>Urban planner Update Path, I have overlooked this fact and I have removed it.

For the other civilian units I am more reserved, I can't see why you could not upgrade a Diplomat to an Empathic Diplomat.

[Tamerlin]

Thanks for your help Hexagonian.

Originally posted by hexagonian
Simply increase the numbers - changing 4 to 8 means that the cost will be (8x) gold of the remaining production needed to complete the item instead of (4x) gold. Rush buying thus becomes more costly.

Isn't doubling the Rush Buy cost too much especially in the earlier part of the game?

(and make a backup of the file before changing if you are hesitant)

I would be well advised to do so...

Couple that with Upgrading costs and the player has a dilemma - either save your gold for the upgrade or RB a needed item. You end up having to do a lot more long-term planning.

The dilemma is indeed interesting.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Thanks for your help Hexagonian.
Isn't doubling the Rush Buy cost too much especially in the earlier part of the game?

I have not played the default game for over 2 years now, so I cannot recall just how much gold is generated, but I do recall it was a lot. I do feel that Rush Buying should be hard - if used, it should save a few turns but not a lot, and it should be used sparingly. I pushed it higher in Cradle across the board because that was the easiest way to make it tougher.

It does depend on what you are comfortabe with. Upgrading costs should put a dent in your gold though, so you may want to leave it alone.

You may want to test it with just the upgrade costs alone, but ask the question while playing... 'Is it still too easy to both upgrade units and consistently rush buy'?

In setting up my files, I tried to make it so I could not do both - so now I save my gold for upgrading and rush buy very rarely - and its based solely on emergency when I do.

Now I build a lot of caravans/gold enhancements because I need to.

[Maquiladora]

Heres probabaly what i would go with, not exactly flowing but...

[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]

[start] Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

[start] Paratrooper >>> Hover Infantry [end]

[start] Archer >>> Mounted Archer [end]

[start] Samurai >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>> Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

[start] Ironclad >>> Submarine >>> Nuclear Sub. >>> Morey Striker [end]

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
I have not played the default game for over 2 years now, so I cannot recall just how much gold is generated, but I do recall it was a lot.

Quite high for the human player, I don't know if the AI can generate a similar amount of money but gold is flowing near the end of the game...

I do feel that Rush Buying should be hard - if used, it should save a few turns but not a lot, and it should be used sparingly. I pushed it higher in Cradle across the board because that was the easiest way to make it tougher.

It does depend on what you are comfortabe with. Upgrading costs should put a dent in your gold though, so you may want to leave it alone.

You may want to test it with just the upgrade costs alone, but ask the question while playing... 'Is it still too easy to both upgrade units and consistently rush buy'?

When I consider the amount of money I have at my disposal in my current game I guess leaving the game unchanged can unbalance a few things.

In setting up my files, I tried to make it so I could not do both - so now I save my gold for upgrading and rush buy very rarely - and its based solely on emergency when I do.

Now I build a lot of caravans/gold enhancements because I need to.

I think I will test two settings :

Rush Buy x6
Rush Buy x8

One of the goal I am targetting for the updater is to get rid off the burden of "manually" upgrade the units scattered throughout my empire having to move them physically where they must replace another unit that will be disbanded.

The Rush Buy setting I will choose is the setting that will even the earn benefit but will not hinder the player to the point he can't upgrade its units. But you are right, I won't appreciate a game becoming too easy because of the possibility to update units.

By the way, I am sorry to bother you with this but I have a few questions left:

1 - I have had a better look to the "code" part of the slic file and I have noted the UnitDB of the Coracle is named UNIT_CORACLE in the CRA_Updater where the APOL_gl_str.txt shows a UNIT_CATAMARAN which must be called "Coracle".

I suppose I must base my work on the strings as they are named in the said APOL_gl_str.txt

2 - In the texts appearing in the message boxes, Peter Trigg is using the word "kill" while speaking about units on the field or in the Production Queue, I suppose it must be understood as "Disband" or "Remove"...

Thanks again for your help.

[Martin the Dane]

I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right. Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

Finaly I don't se how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) thogh not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]
[start] Archer >>> Infantryman[end]

[start] Samurai >>> Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

[start] Paratrooper [end]

[start] Hover Infantry [end]

[start] Mounted Archer >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>>  Ironclad [end]

[start] Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

[start] Submarine >>> Nuclear Sub. >>> Morey Striker [end]

[start] Coracle >>> Longship >>> Carrack( >>> Troop Ship) [end]

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order. Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

[Tamerlin]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Martin the Dane

I have some troubles keeping up with the pace of the thread today as I have my seven years old kid for the week end and until 8 p.m tonight, I will caught up this night.

I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right.

I would let Samurai as a Dead End, it is a very specific and limited use unit.

Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

It would be my choice.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

I agree with you Martin, I see Hover Infantry as the ultimate development of foot units.

Finaly I don't see how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) though not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

They have had a very short lifespan and proved clumsy on the battlefield and were quickly replaced by the battleship they were the ancestors of though Hexagonian allows for the replacement of the Ironclad by the Submarine. As far as I am concerned I would let the Update Path "as is".

[CODE]
[start] Hoplite >>> Pikemen >>> Infantryman [end]
[start] Archer >>> Infantryman[end]

[start] Samurai >>> Machine Gunner >>> Marine [end]

My main concern is I would like the updater to ease the flow of the game, this is why I would like the Infantryman to be replaced by the Machine Gunner and then the Machine Gunner by the Marine as they are available when you have many cities and many units to update. You could reply, and you would be right, that they don't have exactly the same role as the Machine Gunner is a defensive unit and the Marine an offensive one. I would let the Samurai a dead end unit as it is a special offensive unit where the Machine Gunner is a defensive modern unit. The abilities of the Marine allow it to fulfill both roles.

[start] Mounted Archer >>> Cavalry >>> Tank >>> Fusion Tank [end]

[start] Knight >>> Cavalry >>> . . . (as above) [end]

My initial post has been edited and corrected to include this new path.

Btw, do you prefer me to send a new post when I have made some corrections in order to spot mthe said corrections more easiliy?

[start] Fire Trireme >>> Ship of the Line >>> Ironclad [end]

Though it sounds odd to me, I can modify the Upgrade Path so the Ship of the Line can upgrade to the Ironclad if a majority of you is OK.

[start] Destroyer >>> Battleship >>> Plasma Destroyer [end]

I still think the Ironclad should upgrade to the Battleship as it is clearly the ancestor of the Battleship.

[start] Coracle >>> Longship >>> Carrack( >>> Troop Ship) [end]

Already included in the update path...

[start] Kraken >>> Dreadnaught [end]

I have wondered for a while in my first worksheet if the Kraken should be upgraded to the Dreadnought, their different abilities (attack, defense...) seemed to point at the contrary, but if a majority agree I will correct my initial post.

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order.

I am not a slic programmer and I really don't know how it can be done.

Remember my main goal is to ease the flow of the game and that I don't want to move tens of units on the map to reach the replacement area.

Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

You are right but this is a more general modification of the game which is beyond the scope of the Updater.

See you after 8 p.m.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
1 - I have had a better look to the "code" part of the slic file and I have noted the UnitDB of the Coracle is named UNIT_CORACLE in the CRA_Updater where the APOL_gl_str.txt shows a UNIT_CATAMARAN which must be called "Coracle".

I suppose I must base my work on the strings as they are named in the said APOL_gl_str.txt

Correct - make sure you are using the name as it appears in the Apolyton files, as I have added new units in Cradle.

Originally posted by Tamerlin
2 - In the texts appearing in the message boxes, Peter Trigg is using the word "kill" while speaking about units on the field or in the Production Queue, I suppose it must be understood as "Disband" or "Remove"...

The only thing you need to change in the updater file is the unit entries, the cost, the enable advances and the bracketed numbers that appear in each unit entry. All the other stuff is the coding that activates the updater - changing that info will cause the code to crash the game.

But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read. Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

[Martin Gühmann]

Originally posted by hexagonian
But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read.
Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by hexagonian
Correct - make sure you are using the name as it appears in the Apolyton files, as I have added new units in Cradle.

This is what I thought but it is better to be sure of this as I don't want to send a buggy Updater.

The only thing you need to change in the updater file is the unit entries, the cost, the enable advances and the bracketed numbers that appear in each unit entry. All the other stuff is the coding that activates the updater - changing that info will cause the code to crash the game.

Ooops ! I thought some of the texts in the code part of the .slc file were actually the messages displayed in the message boxes.

But its a good think you brought this up - there is another file that you need to be aware of. It's in the english/gamedata folder - for Cradle, it's called...
CRA_update_str.txt
and its the actual message file. You can take a look at it to see if the message reads the way you want it to read. Change the name of the file to...
APOL_update_str.txt

This will greatly help me to translate the messages to french and release english and french versions of the Updater.

Then open the file...
APOL_Strings.txt
and add the entry at the bottom of the file...
import "APOL_update_str.txt"

I will also write a little read me to help the other apprentices like me.

Thanks for your invaluable help Hexagonian.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

I suppose I still have to enable the Updater and add the line
#include "APOL_Update.slc" at the end of the APOL_script.slc file.

[Maquiladora]

Originally posted by Martin the Dane
I don't like the Samurai becomming Cavalery, it just don't seem right. Maybe let them upgrade to Machine Gunner, they are foot soldiers.

I just copied this from civ3 I didnt really like to see so many units at a dead end. Theres alot of distinct units you can say would never upgrade to another, because theyre from different parts of the world.

And I would never upgrade all my Paratroopers to Hover Infantry, They have distinct roles on the batlefield.

I would never build paratroopers full stop, but just a gameplay issue to make humans build paratroopers. In fact all the lines are really with gameplay in mind...

Finaly I don't se how Ironclad upgrades to submarines, Ironclads were far from stealthy, as they were an upgrade on the Ship of the Line (in real history) thogh not all navies ever used them. Correct me if I'm wrong but IIRC they never realy became an important part of naval combat.

The shape and form of an ironclad is very reminiscent of early submarines, i dont think submarines wouldve looked exactly as they do without the ironclad "phase".

I also did this because i never build ironclads. The science speed is often so fast at that stage that you totally bypass ironclads and can wait easily for submarines, and just keep ship of the line until then. I see ironclads as the start of a different kind of naval unit.

A final note I think upgrade could/should be a build order. Or make disbanding units within cities contribute to production of units.

Actually if you right click and disband a unit thats inside a city the production will go to the item currently on the build queue, but theres yet to be an updater code to upgrade a unit this way.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann
Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.

-Martin

This is so true that I have already translated the APOL_Main_str.txt in French as part of my translation of the Apolyton Pack. This is actually one of the first file I have translated when I started working on this.

Thanks for your help Martin.

[Tamerlin]

Martin the Dane thinks the Kraken should be ugraded to the Dreadnaught, what do you think about this? (In my own opinion they are very different units...)

Do you also think the Ship of the Line should be upgraded to the Ironclad?



Maquiladora: I understand your point of view but I would have the feeling to somehow betray history if the Ironclad could be upgraded to the Submarine.

Btw, a submarine prototype was proposed by an engineer well before the first Ironclads. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was at the time of Napoleon the First and that the english Navy refused the idea as it was considered impractical.

[Tamerlin]

Double post...

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
I just copied this from civ3 I didnt really like to see so many units at a dead end. Theres alot of distinct units you can say would never upgrade to another, because theyre from different parts of the world.

Copied from what?

True there are many dead end units but most of them are special units that you don't produce (as the Paratrooper ) or that you use in a specific purpose (the Corporate Branch, the Cruise Missile and even the Paratrooper ).

I will include in the Read me a few datas that will allow anyone to change the Update.slc in a few minutes so that it can suit his taste.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Actual there is no need to do this, the according unit updater strings are already part of the APOL_main_str.txt and can be used without any problems, there is also a German version of these strings.
-Martin

But does the updater SLIC file (at least the version that Tamerlin is using) have the links to those messages? Dale didn't include the updater SLIC in the Apolyton Pack, but based on what he did in that file (APOL_main_str.txt), it looks like he had planned on it at some time.

[Martin the Dane]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
Martin the Dane thinks the Kraken should be ugraded to the Dreadnaught, what do you think about this? (In my own opinion they are very different units...)

Well actualy that was Maq's idea, and looking at it now, i'm not so sure, it depends on wether or not the Dreadnaught can attack Sea Colonies, it is a bit slower than the Kraken, so ther might be room for both in my navy.