Why the US has to be and should be "imperialist"

[red_jon]

I don't see how it is socially less advanced. So it's better to have segregated societies? I don;t think there's a definite answer either way.

[Pekka]

Yep, I'm sorry and I apologize from everybody.. I guess I got little overheated .

[Grrr]

From AS' location field:
Philly, the 2nd most murderous city in the world; What happened to bro love?

And you're trying to say that America is SUPERIOR???

[Drake Tungsten]

And you're trying to say that America is SUPERIOR???

I think America also has the 1st most muderous city in the world. Having the number 1 and 2 slots locked up makes us superior, doesn't it?

[Ned]

Assume that the major powers all began to "expand" by adding states to a larger "co-prosperity" union. In other words, what if the US, Russia, China and Japan all began to add states to their own co-prosperity union on a voluntary basis just as the the European Union has been expanding by the voluntary association of new states into its Union. Who would be the most successful in expanding their "empires" by voluntary association?

Viewed in this light, I think Albert Speer would argue that it would be easier for United States to add states because it is multiethnic to begin with. He would further argue that China and Japan would not be able to expand (without force) because no one could expect to become a full fledged Chinese or Japanese citizen without having been born Chinese or Japanese.

I think the European Union has a good track record on expansion. However, they recently turned down Turkey. Does this indicate that the Europeans do not want to be associated with non-Christian cultures?

Russia, in contrast, successfully shared an empire with the peoples of Central Asia who were not born Russian and who were not Christian. But of course, the Russian empire was not built voluntarily.

[Agathon]

I suggest that anyone wanting to comment on this thread download and read the UN Human Development Report. I think that the report is excessively generous to the United States and I would not live there if I could avoid it.

The United States is a lousy place to live because it doesn't have:

(1) A free press. Of course people say it has a free press; but you try living somewhere like New Zealand, where I come from and you will be amazed at the difference. *Surprisingly, I have been very critical of the NZ press considering that the UN ranks it as one of the World's freest - twice as free as the US).

(2) A functioning democracy. Money and a ridiculously arcane electoral system has polluted American democracy to the point where half of you don't vote and the two main political parties push basically the same economic policy with cosmetic differences on social policy. Even when there is an election, it is rife with fraud and corruption unbecoming a civilised state, the man who wins doesn't win, and the so called guardians of the law expose themselves as partisan anti-democrats.

(3) A welfare state. The reason that Norway, Sweden, Canada, et al. do so well in these reports is that they have a welfare state. Most sensible statesmen realised some time ago that unrestrained markets work only slightly less badly as absolute central planning. Health care is a good example - Americans spend about twice what Canadians do on Health care and get about half of what Canadians get. In what other civilised country do the elderly have to make regular trips abroad to be able to afford life saving drugs? Perhaps if you didn't spend all your money on the ridiculously large military budget there would be room for all these things.

More to the point: in New Zealand I have never seen a homeless person. There are a reputedly a few who live in Auckland and smattering elsewhere, but I have never seen one (Hard to believe, eh?). Most New Zealanders who have never been overseas are shocked on their first trip to discover that there is such a thing as homelessness. In the US homelessness and vagrancy is a virtual pandemic.

(4) A realistic perspective on patriotism. It is all very well to love your country: but American patriotism reaches fascist proportions. You know the way you guys feel about North Korean political pageantry - well when we look at you guys that's how we feel. In my country, it was once suggested that all schoolchildren should stand at attention once per day whilst our flag was raised and our anthem was played. There was massive opposition - this is the sort of thing fascist regimes do - besides all the children would have sung the rude words to the anthem (which everyone knows).



The United States is a lousy place to live because it has:

(1) Slaves: well, illegal workers aren't technically slaves, but they don't enjoy any of the rights of citizens and are basically tolerated as an underclass. Forced labourers in prison however are slaves - there is just no other way of looking at it.

(2) Religious lunatics with political clout. In my country the religious party get less votes than the legalise pot people. In the US there are serious debates about whether to teach evolution in schools. And these are the people that complain about Islamic fundamentalists! I could go on...

(3) Appalling rates of violent crime and poverty.

(4) An idiotic lottery system in which a few citizens win millions of dollar while others pay exorbitant ticket prices - it's icalled "suing".

(5) A President who can't read properly and didn't know where most the world's geostrategically important countries were before he was elected. He's now planning to bomb some of them.

(6) A war on black people (called the "war on drugs" - wink wink).

(7) Dull and silly sports that no one else in the world plays and an effeminate version of football played in full body armour (ever played Rugby League? - a man's game).

Oh I could go on all day.. but that's enough.


Why all this? Well because those of us used to civilised societies don't want primitive barbarians like you lot telling us what to do.

[Drake Tungsten]

Despite its other benefits, New Zealand obviously doesn't have a very good education system.

[Nubclear]

Come on people.....Can't we just dismiss this thread as another flag waving American desperate to prove American "superiority" to the rest of the world? It happens all the time.....Squashing his ego with information disproving his attempted chest-thumping will only enrage him and make him try harder to prove American superiority and therefore this will never end.....

Just ignore the thread or close it and be done with it

[Grrr]

Originally posted by Agathon
I suggest that anyone wanting to comment on this thread download and read the UN Human Development Report. I think that the report is excessively generous to the United States and I would not live there if I could avoid it.

The United States is a lousy place to live because it doesn't have:

(1) A free press. Of course people say it has a free press; but you try living somewhere like New Zealand, where I come from and you will be amazed at the difference. *Surprisingly, I have been very critical of the NZ press considering that the UN ranks it as one of the World's freest - twice as free as the US).

(2) A functioning democracy. Money and a ridiculously arcane electoral system has polluted American democracy to the point where half of you don't vote and the two main political parties push basically the same economic policy with cosmetic differences on social policy. Even when there is an election, it is rife with fraud and corruption unbecoming a civilised state, the man who wins doesn't win, and the so called guardians of the law expose themselves as partisan anti-democrats.

(3) A welfare state. The reason that Norway, Sweden, Canada, et al. do so well in these reports is that they have a welfare state. Most sensible statesmen realised some time ago that unrestrained markets work only slightly less badly as absolute central planning. Health care is a good example - Americans spend about twice what Canadians do on Health care and get about half of what Canadians get. In what other civilised country do the elderly have to make regular trips abroad to be able to afford life saving drugs? Perhaps if you didn't spend all your money on the ridiculously large military budget there would be room for all these things.

More to the point: in New Zealand I have never seen a homeless person. There are a reputedly a few who live in Auckland and smattering elsewhere, but I have never seen one (Hard to believe, eh?). Most New Zealanders who have never been overseas are shocked on their first trip to discover that there is such a thing as homelessness. In the US homelessness and vagrancy is a virtual pandemic.

(4) A realistic perspective on patriotism. It is all very well to love your country: but American patriotism reaches fascist proportions. You know the way you guys feel about North Korean political pageantry - well when we look at you guys that's how we feel. In my country, it was once suggested that all schoolchildren should stand at attention once per day whilst our flag was raised and our anthem was played. There was massive opposition - this is the sort of thing fascist regimes do - besides all the children would have sung the rude words to the anthem (which everyone knows).



The United States is a lousy place to live because it has:

(1) Slaves: well, illegal workers aren't technically slaves, but they don't enjoy any of the rights of citizens and are basically tolerated as an underclass. Forced labourers in prison however are slaves - there is just no other way of looking at it.

(2) Religious lunatics with political clout. In my country the religious party get less votes than the legalise pot people. In the US there are serious debates about whether to teach evolution in schools. And these are the people that complain about Islamic fundamentalists! I could go on...

(3) Appalling rates of violent crime and poverty.

(4) An idiotic lottery system in which a few citizens win millions of dollar while others pay exorbitant ticket prices - it's icalled "suing".

(5) A President who can't read properly and didn't know where most the world's geostrategically important countries were before he was elected. He's now planning to bomb some of them.

(6) A war on black people (called the "war on drugs" - wink wink).

(7) Dull and silly sports that no one else in the world plays and an effeminate version of football played in full body armour (ever played Rugby League? - a man's game).

Oh I could go on all day.. but that's enough.


Why all this? Well because those of us used to civilised societies don't want primitive barbarians like you lot telling us what to do.

1) ... not to **** in our own nest ... but have you EVER seen the NZ press report on something worthwhile. International news is relagated to after the first ad-break on the 6 o'clock news ... and is often canned if there is important news (eg Rugby scandals).

2) ... Yep down with Christian Heritage ...
... And also the fact that we have seven politcal parties bringing many values to our government.

3) ... you've obviously never walked down Cuba St in Wellington or Karangahape Rd in Auckland. Plenty there ... but most do it voluntarily ... if they didn't spend all their money on booze and hookers it'd be a lot better.

4) ... Yeah. But I look at america like that.

...

But we do have Winston Peters ... he should be deported to America ... would raise the average IQ of both countries.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Despite its other benefits, New Zealand obviously doesn't have a very good education system.

Would you like to get into a discussion about the AMERICAN education system?

[Zero]

Originally posted by Ned
Viewed in this light, I think Albert Speer would argue that it would be easier for United States to add states because it is multiethnic to begin with. He would further argue that China and Japan would not be able to expand (without force) because no one could expect to become a full fledged Chinese or Japanese citizen without having been born Chinese or Japanese.

Ned is right. This is all AS really wanted to say IMO. I understand what AS meant by saying US is more socially advanced by saying US is more multiethnic, but I disagree on his definition of advanced society thus I cannot agree. But I see how US social system is advantageous over other systems.

and red jon,
"I don't see how it is socially less advanced. So it's better to have segregated societies? I don;t think there's a definite answer either way."

No in AS's example it would actually support the notion that seggregated societies would be inferior to that of multiethnic society that lives without segregation. Once again, I disagree. Segregated society CAN be more socially advanced in my definition of "advanced society" and doesnt have definitve answer regarding segregation. (I am not in favor of segregation )

[Ned]

[SIZE=1]

Why all this? Well because those of us used to civilised societies don't want primitive barbarians like you lot telling us what to do.

In other words, NZ woud join with China or Japan, the other Pacific powers, over the US if it were offered a choice? That is the real question on the table.

[red_jon]

Originally posted by Tassadar5000




Would you like to get into a discussion about the AMERICAN education system?

Shut up, just because they teach the truth, like how God created the world in 7 days and the world is flat

[Zero]

World is square my friend, and one day i will prove it.

[red_jon]

Actually the world is in the shape of a giant turtle.

[Ned]

Originally posted by red_jon


Shut up, just because they teach the truth, like how God created the world in 7 days and the world is flat

No, we do not allow such to be taught in our wretched public schools. We, rather teach remedial English and math to first year college students because they somehow managed to go to public school for 12 years, getting straight A's, while learning virtually nothing.

[Drake Tungsten]

Would you like to get into a discussion about the AMERICAN education system?

One good troll deserves another...

[Zero]

Originally posted by red_jon
Actually the world is in the shape of a giant turtle.

Nooooo!~ (starts burning lifetime worth of research then pauses)

I am in denial phase now.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Grrr

1) ... not to **** in our own nest ... but have you EVER seen the NZ press report on something worthwhile. International news is relagated to after the first ad-break on the 6 o'clock news ... and is often canned if there is important news (eg Rugby scandals).

Don't blame me - it is right there on page 38 of the UN's HDR report. NZ score = 8; US = 15 (lower is better).

Didn't you see me complain about the NZ press. The TV are not too hot (still better than the Yanks though); the papers are not too bad though - less biased than most.

2) ... Yep down with Christian Heritage ...
... And also the fact that we have seven politcal parties bringing many values to our government.

And few people seem to think it is appropriate to legislate one's religious prejudices.

3) ... you've obviously never walked down Cuba St in Wellington or Karangahape Rd in Auckland. Plenty there ... but most do it voluntarily ... if they didn't spend all their money on booze and hookers it'd be a lot better.

I've never seen any. Apparently it has been slightly worse since I left 3 years ago - but still nowhere near Canada's level of homelessness not to mention the US rate. I suppose there will always be some hard core losers who just don't care.

But we do have Winston Peters ... he should be deported to America ... would raise the average IQ of both countries3) ... you've obviously never walked down Cuba St in Wellington or Karangahape Rd in Auckland. Plenty there ... but most do it voluntarily ... if they didn't spend all their money on booze and hookers it'd be a lot better.

At least he's smarter than Bush.

4) ... Yeah. But I look at america like that.

Like what?

[chequita guevara]

stupidest thread ever

[Zero]

Show me a metropolis with no homeless. Then maybe you can say NZ doesnt have homeless people. (unless you dont have cities! and kicking the homeless out doesnt count either!)

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ned

In other words, NZ woud join with China or Japan, the other Pacific powers, over the US if it were offered a choice? That is the real question on the table.

No we can't be bothered with the whole bunch of you. P*** off and leave us alone with our beer and our 60 million sheep. And you can stick Britney Spears, Mickey Mouse and your nuclear weapons up your a*** and all.

And I'd have the Japanese before you.

- Over the last 40 years or so they've been better behaved than the US

- American women are generally fat whining hogs (well the lot of you are fat whining hogs, but I ain't gay). Japanese women are just great - attractive, smart, not the size of an SUV.

- Sapporo is a better pint than the horse p*** you guys call beer.

- sushi is better for you than McDonalds

- and they are so polite.

- we can thrash them at rugby.

- the Godzilla films were one of the highlights of the 20th century.

- the other choice is Australia.


Actually - you can do us a favour.

Dear George Bush Jr.

Please nuke Australia as soon as possible. Iraq and North Korea have never been the real danger. The Australians are evil, they smell, and they have sex with farm animals.

Yours in hope of an impending first strike


Agathon

[Ned]

Originally posted by Agathon


No we can't be bothered with the whole bunch of you. P*** off and leave us alone with our beer and our 60 million sheep. And you can stick Britney Spears, Mickey Mouse and your nuclear weapons up your a*** and all.

And I'd have the Japanese before you.

- Over the last 40 years or so they've been better behaved than the US

- American women are generally fat whining hogs (well the lot of you are fat whining hogs, but I ain't gay). Japanese women are just great - attractive, smart, not the size of an SUV.

- Sapporo is a better pint than the horse p*** you guys call beer.

- sushi is better for you than McDonalds

- and they are so polite.

- we can thrash them at rugby.

- the Godzilla films were one of the highlights of the 20th century.

- the other choice is Australia.


Actually - you can do us a favour.

Dear George Bush Jr.

Please nuke Australia as soon as possible. Iraq and North Korea have never been the real danger. The Australians are evil, they smell, and they have sex with farm animals.

Yours in hope of an impending first strike


Agathon

I like the Japanese too. But I don't think I would ever be fully accepted into their society.

But based simply on your attitude, Agathon, you'd make a good American.

[Grrr]

Yeah ... nuke the aussies !

Agathon ... you're forgotten about that very degrading sport of the yanks ... cheerleading (the best way to advertise a daughter as a slut ripe for rape).

[Sava]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
The United States is, without a doubt, the most socially advanced society in the world...


we are superior in terms of the progress of civilization...

I guess Nazi boy Speer has forgotten that the US has by far the highest murder per capita rate in the world. And is the only "civilized" Western country without socialized medicine, and has the highest rate of people living below the poverty line.

[Zero]

Originally posted by Sava


I guess Nazi boy Speer has forgotten that the US has by far the highest murder per capita rate in the world. And is the only "civilized" Western country without socialized medicine, and has the highest rate of people living below the poverty line.

Like I said, I fully understood what speer was getting at, but I disagree with his definition of "advanced society". According to his definition, as long as society can different ethnic groups, it is advanced. And by the way I also disagree with you in that some things you mention does not need to be resolved to be necessarily be socially advanced in my definition....

Agathon ... you're forgotten about that very degrading sport of the yanks ... cheerleading (the best way to advertise a daughter as a slut ripe for rape).

I disagree. God bless the Cheerleaders.

American women are generally fat whining hogs (well the lot of you are fat whining hogs, but I ain't gay). Japanese women are just great - attractive, smart, not the size of an SUV.

Ok racists statement, but Asian women in general are usually flat. But then theres wonder of surgery. So choose wisely. Liposuction (flabby skin) or fake breasts? I dont mind if they are small so asian women are usually perfect for me

I like the Japanese too. But I don't think I would ever be fully accepted into their society.

No you will not. I forgot the specifics on how to acquire japanese citizenship. It's ridiculous compared to US naturalized citizenship. (Not to mention even with citizenship you will be forever "foreigner" to them. It will forever show as you have to write your name in Katakana.)

[Al B. Sure!]

I like the Japanese too. But I don't think I would ever be fully accepted into their society.

My point EXACTLY... an ethnic state like Japan must never be imperialist because, for example, Manchurians would never be accepted into Japanese society. Any imperialism done by such an ethnic state will be racist.

The United States, however, being a multi-national state, if it does act imperialistically, would do so in a way where the citizens of the 'vassal' would be fully embraced as the Gauls and Egyptians and what not was embraced by the Romans


thanks

[Sava]

multi-national state? You do know of course, that the percentages of our government officials don't translate into equal ratios of the actual US population.

Of all the Western countries, the US is the least civilized and advanced socially. Military and economic superiority doesn't equal social and cultural "superiority. In fact, the idea that one culture is better than another is very ethno-centrist. But, I don't expect any more from a guy like Speer.

[Al B. Sure!]

Sava:

Once again...

Japanese act imperialistically in Korea... Koreans become second-class citizens of the Japanese Empire with no hope of being accepted into the ethnic state that is Japan.

US acts imperialistically in Korea. Koreans will be equals to Americans and be accepted into a multi-national state that has a history of accepting people of various ethnicities

Multi-national states are better... Achaemid Persia, Rome, Ottoman Empire...


thanks

[Drake Tungsten]

multi-national state? You do know of course, that the percentages of our government officials don't translate into equal ratios of the actual US population.

That made no sense whatsoever...

Leave it to Sava to make Speer look like a genius!