January 9, 2003, 12:48
|
#1
|
Warlord
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N/A
Posts: 237
|
Westerners as human shields in Iraq
Westerners plan to be human shields in Iraq in case of a war. The news article talks about a 21 year old Brit. There is also a picture of a 5-year old British kid greeting Saddam in Iraq. The boy is supposedly also a human shield. Is this abusing+++ kids?
I think an American is behind this. I heard the web adress on the radio today, but don't remember the exact name. Uk service something.
The American got 200 other Americans with him and it seems like Brits will join.
Is this despicable? Will it prevent an eventual war?
PS If someone else posted this I am sorry. Didn't see anything on the 1st page.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:49
|
#2
|
Warlord
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N/A
Posts: 237
|
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:51
|
#3
|
Emperor
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: a raving alcoholic drama queen with a penchant for the biosciences
Posts: 3,646
|
Genius idea, because we all know cruise missiles take the time to check passports and nation of origin before killing you......
__________________
Exult in your existence, because that very process has blundered unwittingly on its own negation. Only a small, local negation, to be sure: only one species, and only a minority of that species; but there lies hope. [...] Stand tall, Bipedal Ape. The shark may outswim you, the cheetah outrun you, the swift outfly you, the capuchin outclimb you, the elephant outpower you, the redwood outlast you. But you have the biggest gifts of all: the gift of understanding the ruthlessly cruel process that gave us all existence [and the] gift of revulsion against its implications.
-Richard Dawkins
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:55
|
#4
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Re: Westerners as human shields in Iraq
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Lars-E
The American got 200 other Americans with him and it seems like Brits will join.
|
Where ever they are should be the first targets hit if possible. If they can get some French to join in as well, so much the better.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:55
|
#5
|
Settler
Local Time: 16:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
And then there's also this...
Quote:
|
Greece Launches EU Peace Mission on Iraq
Wed Jan 8, 4:31 PM ET Add Top Stories - Reuters to My Yahoo!
By Brian Williams and Nadim Ladki
ATHENS/BAGHDAD (Reuters) - European Union (news - web sites) president Greece said on Wednesday it would lead an EU mission to Arab states in a bid to avert war in Iraq, as Washington and London beefed up firepower in the Gulf region.
Reuters Photo
AP Photo
Slideshow: Iraq and Saddam Hussein
Blair Reiterates Strong Stance Against Iraq
(AP Video)
Iraq: U.S. Preparing a 'Devastating' War
(AP Video)
Iraq Denies 'Gaps' in Its Weapons Report
(AP Video)
Iraq Accuses Inspectors Of Spying
(Reuters Video)
U.N. arms inspectors are expected to report on Thursday that Iraq has still failed to answer key questions, providing possible fresh ammunition for Washington's case for war.
The Greek announcement surprised other EU members whose attitudes to attacking Iraq vary widely, ranging from staunch British support for U.S. hard-line policy on Baghdad to Germany's refusal to get involved in combat.
The trip was timed to start around late January when the U.N. Security Council holds a meeting on Iraq that is increasingly seen as possible showdown time for war.
There was no immediate response to the Greek initiative in Washington but in London a Foreign Office official said any effort to get Iraq to honor U.N. resolutions was welcome.
"On the trip we want to see if we can have a positive development on Iraq," Greek Foreign Minister George Papandreou told Reuters TV, adding he would urge Arab nations to play a bigger role in mediating between the United States and Iraq.
"As EU president we have decided we cannot just wait for things to happen," a close Papandreou aide told Reuters.
A Foreign Ministry official said the mission was likely to be in late January or early February and would take in Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and Saudi Arabia as well as meetings with Palestinian and Israeli officials.
It was unclear whether the planned timing of the EU mission suggested Athens had information that Washington would avoid military action against Baghdad before then.
ALL EYES ON U.N. REPORT
U.N. experts said on the eve of the report to the United Nations (news - web sites) Security Council that Iraq had not cleared up issues about biological and chemical programs, including 6,000 missing poison gas bombs.
Hans Blix, in charge of chemical, biological and ballistic arms inspections, and International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohamed ElBaradei have made clear their teams have not been in Iraq long enough to uncover any weapons of mass destruction.
Washington and London say they have intelligence Iraq has such weapons and have threatened war unless Iraq comes clean. Iraq denies having any nuclear, biological or chemical arms.
A fuller report by Blix and ElBaradei on January 27 is widely seen as a possible trigger for war if Iraq fails to satisfy the weapons inspectors. But diplomats say that report may not include any dramatic disclosures either.
The United States and Britain have already said there are holes in Iraq's arms declaration to the United Nations in December, and Washington has gone further in saying the gaps put Baghdad in material breach of U.N. resolutions.
Other countries, especially in the Muslim world, have opposed any military action unless hard evidence emerges that Iraq has banned weapons.
SADDAM STILL DEFIANT
Iraqi President Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) fired another defiant salvo of words at Washington on Wednesday.
The United States had superiority in the air but in face-to-face fighting the American GI's 21st-century kit would count for nothing, he said.
Amid tight Iraqi food rations however, supplying the troops with food could be a real concern, Saddam was quoted as saying by Iraqi television.
"It is enough to have grenades, launchers, a loaf of bread, a drink of water and a rifle. Then, counting on God, Iraq will be safe...unless the fighter says he has no bread or no water to drink," Saddam said.
U.S. Army General Tommy Franks, who would lead any American war against Iraq, briefed President Bush (news - web sites) and his national security team on Wednesday as the U.S. and British military build-up in the Gulf region gathered pace.
The Pentagon (news - web sites) is pouring warplanes, ships and thousands of troops into the region. It plans to double the 60,000 already there and is sending war planners to a base in Qatar.
U.N. inspectors, backed by a tough Security Council resolution passed in November, searched at least eight sites in Iraq on Wednesday, upping the tempo of their inspections.
|
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:57
|
#6
|
Prince
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: The Palace of Justice
Posts: 445
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Starchild
Genius idea, because we all know cruise missiles take the time to check passports and nation of origin before killing you......
|
I never knew that.
But I guess the dummies doing this are at least going to remove their genes from the pool.
__________________
Some days are diamonds, some days are rocks...
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:59
|
#7
|
Settler
Local Time: 16:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
That's not the first time something like this is being planned and done BTW.
When NATO bombed targets in Serbia, human shields were formed on bridges etc all wearing a t-shirt with a target drawn on it.
The media were filming the whole thing.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 12:59
|
#8
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
|
Using children. Yepper. Saddam backers.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:08
|
#9
|
King
Local Time: 14:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Kuzelj
Posts: 2,314
|
Well they are not Saddam backers, but merely to fundamentalist pacifists... now all they should do instead is go around and make political campaigns for some more peace loving MP's (or for better sentors and congressmen) and such, however a holiday in Iraq is easier. One thing is for sure, they'll be sorry after the first missile lands for those who stay alive and injured.
It's no good being fundamentalist not even a pacifist.
__________________
*** Apolyton Champions League 2002/2003 Champion***
Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:13
|
#10
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave
One thing is for sure, they'll be sorry after the first missile lands for those who stay alive and injured.
|
That's why the building they are serving as a shield for should be the first to be hit.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:16
|
#11
|
Warlord
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N/A
Posts: 237
|
Would Bush kill Americans?
He would be persona non grata politically in the USA, if he did that.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:25
|
#12
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
|
If they act like more American Taliban, guess what? You're wrong.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:28
|
#13
|
Warlord
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N/A
Posts: 237
|
John Walker got off "easy".
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 13:32
|
#14
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
|
Yes, he did.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 14:41
|
#15
|
King
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: All Connections That Have Been Made Are Now Dead
Posts: 2,981
|
well if he wants to go out there and get himself killed, then it's his own problem. involing children is and would be utterly disgusting though.
__________________
"The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.
"The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 14:49
|
#16
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
|
The picture of the five-year old is from 1991.  Can you people read?
Those people are f*ck*ng brave. They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. How many here can say the same? I think it's misguided, but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:00
|
#17
|
Emperor
Local Time: 17:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
|
Quote:
|
Those people are f*ck*ng brave.
|
yes.
Quote:
|
They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in.
|
yes.
Quote:
|
How many here can say the same?
|
no
Quote:
|
I think it's misguided,
|
yes
Quote:
|
but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.
|
no.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:02
|
#18
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The picture of the five-year old is from 1991. Can you people read?
Those people are f*ck*ng brave. They're putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. How many here can say the same? I think it's misguided, but maybe if more people were like them, there wouldn't be any more wars.
|
i think what they believe in is incredibly stupid. i wouldn't sacrifice myself for something so stupid.
tienemen square, now that was bravery. AND it was people IN A SOCIETY resisting, not people from HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD resisting something that started NEXT DOOR TO THEM by going to THE MIDDLE OF IRAQISTAN
plus, if they think they're going to make a difference, they're morons.
lets see though che, what do i believe in that i am willing to die for... i believe in equality of all people, political, social, and economical. if my death could some how serve to either create, sustain, or enhanse such a society, i'd gladly step up, and i'd hope every citizen in such a society to have a similiar mindset.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:04
|
#19
|
Deity
Local Time: 15:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Germans own my soul.
Posts: 14,861
|
Good on them. All I see is the sabre rattling of the west, itching to bomb Iraq into oblivion once more, and yet there is still no evidence of any weapons of mass destruction. Look, if the UN won't find them on the ground, the Air Forces of the west aren't going to find them in a f**king plane! It just takes the piss.
__________________
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:14
|
#20
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
|
I see this the same way Azazel does.
It's better than just whining about it, I'll say that: they've got balls (they've really got balls if they stick it out if a war does get underway and they start to get killed).
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:14
|
#21
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Fort LOLderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Posts: 9,091
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by UberKruX
tienemen square, now that was bravery. AND it was people IN A SOCIETY resisting, not people from HALF WAY AROUND THE WORLD resisting something that started NEXT DOOR TO THEM by going to THE MIDDLE OF IRAQISTAN 
lets see though che, what do i believe in that i am willing to die for... i believe in equality of all people, political, social, and economical. if my death could some how serve to either create, sustain, or enhanse such a society, i'd gladly step up, and i'd hope every citizen in such a society to have a similiar mindset.
|
First off, I'm willing to be these are religious people, so the probablity of their demise doesn't make their sacrifice as meaninless to them as it would to you or me. Since I know there's no afterlife, I would want my death to produce tangible results, I'd want to know it would actually help. Personally I think it's adventurism, but that doesn't mean it should be respected. They are will to die to protect others, and there's nothing nobler than that.
Second, it's well known that the deaths of others means nothing to our goverment. Civilians in Yugoslavia tried to act as human shields for their bridges and factories, and they were bombed and unmorned by the West. These people are hoping that the higher value that Westerners have on Westerners' lives will somehow either deter our governments from acting or inspire others in the West to stand up and resist our governments.
And I don't think that the students in Tienemen were all that brave, given that they were children of the elite. They though the state wouldn't hurt them, they were too well-connected. It's the workers of China who laid it on the line and paid for it in spades. It wasn't a student who stood in front of a tank, it was a daily worker. Most o the people executed following the massacre were workers, again, unmourned by the West.
__________________
Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:18
|
#22
|
Deity
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Quote:
|
Most o the people executed following the massacre were workers, again, unmourned by the West.
|
How do you support that statement given all fo the bad press the regime has recieved as a result of the massacre?
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 15:20
|
#23
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
|
Quote:
|
again, unmourned by the West.
|
I don't know about the rest of you assertions with respect to Tiennemen Square, but this one I think is unfair, Che.
A lot of people remmember what happened and believe me, the image of that guy (lowly worker, you say) standing in front of a column of Tanks is not one I will ever forget. If he was executed, I do indeed mourn for him.
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 17:42
|
#24
|
Settler
Local Time: 16:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
|
Hmmm, you would mourn about the poor chinese under their brutal dictatorship which is what the US policy is at too
but would you mourn about the dead children in Cambodia killed by your bombs? Or those in Afganistan?
Selective mourning is hypocricy especially if it fits all too well at your government's policies.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 18:07
|
#25
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Kneel before Grog!
Posts: 17,978
|
I would mourn innocents killed by bombing anywhere. Who said anything about "selective mourning?"
-Arrian
__________________
grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 20:21
|
#26
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Antonio TX USA
Posts: 3,815
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Lars-E
Would Bush kill Americans?
He would be persona non grata politically in the USA, if he did that.
|
Om Sept 11, Bush issued orders to shoot down the last of the four hijacked jets (the one the passengers fought back on and caused to crash) if necessary to prevent it from reaching a target. He got mostly praise here for that command decision. You just have no idea what you are dealing with in regard to USA resolve.
__________________
Gaius Mucius Scaevola Sinistra
Japher: "crap, did I just post in this thread?"
"Bloody hell, Lefty.....number one in my list of persons I have no intention of annoying, ever." Bugs ****ing Bunny
From a 6th grader who readily adpated to internet culture: "Pay attention now, because your opinions suck"
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 20:52
|
#27
|
Prince
Local Time: 17:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 856
|
Hundrends of Europeans (mostly Italians) did that last spring, in Palestine, to protect Arafat and Palestinian hospitals against the Israeli aggression. Their presence and witnessing was critical for saving many lives. The Palestinians said that they were deeply obliged to them for that service.
Hundrends of westerners (mostly Spanish and Americans) are also present in Chiapas, witnessing the paramilitary violence against the indian communities nad trying to thwart it where they can. They are welcomed by the Indians.
So why not go to Iraq and camp inside schools, water and sewage plants, hospitals, e.t.c.? If that will help save the infrastructure and many Iraqi lives, why not? The only problem I see is that the Americans are such cowards that they fight from a distance, using bombs and planes, unlike the IDF or the paramilitaries...
__________________
"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
George Orwell
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 21:02
|
#28
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
|
why risk american lives when it is not required?
sorry if we dont go marching to our deaths like you "brave" europeans
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 21:16
|
#29
|
Emperor
Local Time: 17:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
|
The way I see this is that these people are against war in general.. and they want publicity, and this is a stunt, but with a great price.
I think they are brave, but little stupid.
No, it won't stop war, it won't even slow it down, and they will get killed and it's their own fault. But still I think they're quite brave, and at least they're ready to die for something they believe in.. even if other people won't give them credit for it.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
|
|
|
|
January 9, 2003, 21:21
|
#30
|
Emperor
Local Time: 17:03
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Xrr ZRRRRRRR!!
Posts: 6,484
|
Plus I don't see what the problem would be at all. I'd give good personal warning to my citizens that bombs are on the way, get the hell out. If they wanna die, then sure. I don't think it's any worse, innocent civilians ARE going to die anyway, what's a few youngsters in it anyway. Sure they get few headlines maybe, but that's all there is to it, innocents are innocents no matter what nationality, and if they WANT to be innocent victims, then they're not victims but on a suicide mission. And it's their own fault. Local civilians won't have the chance to flee maybe, and they'll die because they happen to live there. Now that's tough. If someone spends money to go and die there, why couldn't he just save little bit more money and try to bring people from there to his home, thus actually saving lives than just adding to the inevitable body count. He could still protest, and if he gest few families out from the danger zones back to his country and home, I'll bet he gets even more headlines and encourages maybe just few people to do the same.
__________________
In da butt.
"Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
"God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:03.
|
|