Uniqueness of Civs? (Idea for addon/Civ4)

[Adagio]

It has always bothered me, with Civ3, that all Civs uniqueness are pre-set.

What if we say: All Civs starts alike, but within short time they gain their uniqueness depending on how they play the game. We could say that after 3000 years (for first trait) and 4000 years (for second trait), the Civ traits have been found. Each Civ can still only have 2 traits, and they could be calculated like this:

Religious: By building lots of temples (Depending on the size of the civ), you get a higher chance to be a religious civ

Commercial: You get a higher chance to be a commercial civ, if you: 1) explore the map 2) meet new civs 3) Trades with the other civs

Militarism: You get a higher chance to get this trait, if you start out early building a strong military

Scientific: The more you put into science, the greater the chance are to be a scintific Civ (=The more money you spend, the more libraries you build... depending on Civ size)

Expansionist: If you build lots of Settlers/worker or explore the map, the chance to be an expansionist civ is greater

Industrious: By building lots of city improvements and terrain improvements, you get a greater chance to get this trait


Of course this requires the traits to be changed a bit, since e.g. Expansionist civs doesn't get much of the trait, if they don't have the trait before 1000 BC, but maybe the settlers could get much cheaper, or the settlers builds size 2 cities (but don't give 2 citicens to a city when joining... they also only require 1 population)...



Other things that could be changed depending on how you play:

If you build tons of cavalery, you'll have a higher chance to get a new cavalery type unit (+ all existing cavaleries will be upgraded at no cost). The new type cavalery could then have a bonus in attack (of 2)...
Or if you e.g. don't build lots of one type unit, but maybe build lots of offensive type units (or defensive), then all your offensive units gets a +1 offensive (or if defensive, you get a +1 defense, for all defensive units)

Would also be nice (I think) to have certain wonders, that requires certain terrain, e.g. the Pyramids should require dessert near the city...


I know that the numbers should be changed, but this was just meant to give an idea... What do you others think about it?

[bobbo008]

exactly what was brought up yesterday

[Adagio]

Sorry, I did try to go through the pages, but couldn't find anything about that...

[Adagio]

Could you please point me to that thread?

[bobbo008]

ahh.. can't find it... you got it down even to the cavalry example, though.

[Adagio]

Hmmm... nice coincidence

[bobbo008]

the thread entitled "Civ Specific Wonders"

[Trifna]

I also made one or two threads about it and someone made, like a month ago maximum, something quite complete about it. it was about adaptative civs that would have many factors instead of just "Commercial" and "insdustrious". Was more like many factors with every civs placed somewhere on it (more like MOO). like industry: awful, good, very good... something like that... oh well, don't remember alot.

I do agree with you.

[bobbo008]

hmmm... a rating system would be a good idea instead of just two "bonuses"

[Adagio]

Hmmm.. with so many threads about, it seems like many people want it

[bobbo008]

many people do want it. although, many people like it this way. so, somebody's unhappy no matter what.

[Adagio]

Well... can't make everybody happy...

But what do you mean with a rating system?

[bobbo008]

i think what it means, is like this:
everyone has industrial, commercial, military "traits"

if you use one a lot, you become good at it, for example, the Aztecs may have a "Very good" or "5/5" rating for military but "Very Poor" or "1/5" rating in science, if that makes sense.

[Adagio]

Ok, that sounds like a better idea

[bobbo008]

much better, IMO, than just a civ getting a 50% reduction on certain buildings and other stuff.

[Adagio]

Yes, but I guess it'll be harder to implent also...

[bobbo008]

unfortunately. I think it would still be better if civs were pre-set to those, though. Not just "militaristic and religious".

[Trifna]

It's exactly what was implemented in MOO3 (Master of Orion 3) and that is coming out this month (normally). So we'll see how they've put it, and how it could be implemented in Civ.

[SMIFFGIG]

lol i see this more and more on the Civ3 forums

Is Civ3 that bad that people are already trying the cunjure up ideas for Civ4

If Civ3 where a good game, people would be trying to cumjure up ideas for mods, but as Civ3 is almost un-moddable compared to alot of games ESPECIALLY CtP2 then this isnt possible

Sad situation really, Firaxis where quite capable of making it MUCH more moddable im sure

P.S. Before anyone says it making maps with the most basic of rule changing using an inbuilt program is NOT modding

[aahz_capone]

Originally posted by bobbo008
i think what it means, is like this:
everyone has industrial, commercial, military "traits"

if you use one a lot, you become good at it, for example, the Aztecs may have a "Very good" or "5/5" rating for military but "Very Poor" or "1/5" rating in science, if that makes sense.

this is the kind of thing that is being implemented in galactic civilisation. traits are belonging more to political parties that control your senate though. Absolutley cool looking game.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by SMIFFGIG
Is Civ3 that bad that people are already trying the cunjure up ideas for Civ4

No, but I'd say we should come with the ideas, when we have some (Like if this idea was possible to add in an addon, now would be the time to come with the ideas...)

[Trifna]

ADG, I would propose we see what are the few alternatives on the subject and maybe you could make a poll explaining each alternative and how they could work. Could be interesting... maybe it should be done after MOO3's release, since it'll give more information on the workings.

[Adagio]

Good idea, let's start collection the alternatives in this thread then

[Trifna]

The problem of out Apolyton community isn't that we do not have enough ideas but that we do not organize them (as any forum-based communities).

Here's some alternatives I see:

First of all, all systems can be
1- "static" (stays same from beginning to the end) or
2- "dynamic" (changes conformly to what you do : you go temple, you get more religious and builder, you go fishing then you get this or that, etc.)

After:
- A system based as MOO3 and SMAC (caracteristics based on sectors: industry, economics, science, diplomacy...)
- Same system as Civ3
- Civs beeing influenced by their environment (rivers, good places for crops, sea...) [this seems limited but maybe it'd play a little role. I think it should mainly play a role through the dynamic model where someone next to the sea may go sailing]
- Civs could get technological strenghts/weaknesses based on their caracteristics (easier military researches, etc.)

It's just a little base...