Maximum Amount of Trade Arrows

ramses II. · January 14, 2003, 02:08

The highest amount of arrows for a trade route was 39 for one route.
In my last OCC game I had a trade route with a city that was only 15 fields away - but brought me 32 arrows per route (had 3 trade routes to this city

). I think it was behind the date line.
Does anybody know the highest possible amount of trade arrows for one route?
What's your personal record?

DrFell · January 14, 2003, 12:03

I've seen nearly +70 for a specially optimised city (superhighways, rails, etc on a 4 gold and the rest sea location) in 2x production. The limit is probably quite a bit higher, maybe +255.

solo · January 14, 2003, 16:14

The best I've seen is 40 arrows per route using a site found on a random start. I imagine that in an MP game where two players cooperate, each having a Super Trade City on good sites, this can really get a lot higher.

War4ever · January 14, 2003, 17:21

i dont think i have had higher than 25 on a route

rah · January 14, 2003, 18:32

I can remember some SPIKE like numbers when I was playing record score setting games. But in MP, we never get that far so the most I've seen in a long time is in the WAR4 range.

(o.k. maybe a little higher than that)

RAH

War4ever · January 15, 2003, 01:38

rah, its always about +1 upmanship for you isnt it

in mp i have seen 23 or so, but that is tops that i remember as of this moment

DrSpike · January 15, 2003, 05:43

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
I can remember some SPIKE like numbers when I was playing record score setting games.

/me takes a bow.

Scouse Gits · January 15, 2003, 05:46

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
* DrSpike takes a bow.

Even if the accolade was intended for DrFell ?

SG[1]

DrSpike · January 15, 2003, 05:55

Never let merit stand in the way of credit SG.

Scouse Gits · January 15, 2003, 07:29

SG[1]

DrSpike · January 15, 2003, 08:25

Hehe thanks.....it's a nice line.....someone should use it as their sig.

rah · January 15, 2003, 09:34

Oppps, wrong Doc.
Just another Senior Moment.

War4ever · January 15, 2003, 17:09

actually we should all be bowing to you SG....is your hut finder in the GL yet?

Lars-E · January 15, 2003, 18:06

Quote:

Originally posted by DrFell
I've seen nearly +70 for a specially optimised city (superhighways, rails, etc on a 4 gold and the rest sea location) in 2x production. The limit is probably quite a bit higher, maybe +255.

I tested a game with no specials IIRC. I had rivers and traded with different continents. Normal production. I used the editor to get the rivers and continents:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...=8568#post8568
http://home.online.no/~lar-oeve/arti...x_sci_city.jpg

2640 science beakers
282 trade icons
3 trade routes each 52
Production 110

Next time I'd like to test using 4 golds in my city and the receiving one(s). Always trading with the one who has the highest # trade arrows. Living on a small island as "possible" as far away from the tradepartner as possible. Rivers of course. Optimal phantom railpaths btw the foreign cities (they will be on different islands) Initiate trade btw themselves.

If I put my island to the far east and the ones I will trade with on the far west will this actually be close? Can anyone give coordinates for what would be optimal?

I guess I have to check up on samson's thread on trade calculation before I do this. If I do it...

Scouse Gits · January 16, 2003, 06:49

I have dim recollections of trade routes in the 80's from my OCC fortnight games - but my memory could easily be at fault...

SG[1]

DrSpike · January 16, 2003, 10:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
but my memory could easily be at fault...

SG[1]

Hmm, alcohol kills brain cells:

/me puts 2 and 2 together

/me gets 4.

DaveV · January 16, 2003, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Lars-E
I had rivers and traded with different continents. Normal production.

As I understand it, the cities must share a continent in order to maximize the trade arrows. Different continents give higher delivery bonuses, but lower ongoing values. Even with your phantom railroads, I don't think you can gain the road/rail bonus if the other city is on a different continent.

solo · January 16, 2003, 12:15

Lars-E,

Trade route arrows are increased with a connecting road and railroad, if the cities are within a distance of 22. I believe these bonuses will outdo anything you can set up between two distant islands. IIRC, these bonuses each add 50% to the trade route arrow totals.

War4ever · January 16, 2003, 17:23

actually now that i remember, i think i have had low 50's for trade routes in OCC, does that count? i forgot about OCC and then saw SG's report on trade. IIRC it was a wine, gold, silk, whale city

rah · January 16, 2003, 19:32

Yeah, now that I think about it, I think I had one in the mid to upper 50's in OCC.

Of course my memory is so poor, it was probably higher.

War4ever · January 16, 2003, 21:24

well thats just it, not to mention i can't remember that far back.....perhaps someone else can trigger my memory

solo · January 16, 2003, 22:24

I set up two cities using the cheat menu. Each had 4 gold and the other tiles were grassland. All city tiles had roads and rivers. Both cities had superhighways, and one had the Colossus wonder. The two cities were connected with a road and a railroad. In the Colossus city I added a marketplace, bank, stock exchange, and all scientific improvements and wonders. After this 3 freights were used to establish 3 trade routes.

Total Trade Produced: 423 arrows
Trade route sizes: 87 arrows each
With taxes at 100%: clearing over 1000 gold/turn
With science at 100%: 3384 beakers
With luxuries at 100%: No worries

The road and rail bonuses were not as stated in my last post. This Super Trade City without a rail connection was producing 372 arrows and without a rail and road connection, 318 arrows, so by adding both of these connections, the arrows went up 33%, from 318 to 423. I believe the 50% increases apply to the amounts received when delivering commodities.

I do not think higher trade values can be achieved with a two continent setup having two cities at maximum distance, which will just increase your payoff bonuses, and not the route bonuses. I think the best you can do for a two continent route is 52 arrows.

War4ever · January 17, 2003, 00:41

now i have to test this out too......but in a game , not in the cheat menu

solo · January 17, 2003, 09:53

It's very unlikely that a random start will produce an opportunity to obtain as much trade. Probably a little more than half these amounts is the best I would expect from an actual game.

I was interested in seeing how many arrows could be generated with fully optimized cities, necessitating the use of an edited map to create ideal cities and use of the cheat menu to speed things up in order to get a quick answer to the question being posed in this thread.

DaveV · January 17, 2003, 10:34

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
The road and rail bonuses were not as stated in my last post. This Super Trade City without a rail connection was producing 372 arrows and without a rail and road connection, 318 arrows, so by adding both of these connections, the arrows went up 33%, from 318 to 423. I believe the 50% increases apply to the amounts received when delivering commodities.

Solo - are you adding in the city's base trade when calculating the road/rail bonus? Using your numbers, I calculate the trade routes at 70 with roads, 52 with neither roads nor rails. This gives a trade route income bonus of 33% for roads, and another 33% bonus for rails.

War4ever · January 17, 2003, 17:23

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
It's very unlikely that a random start will produce an opportunity to obtain as much trade. Probably a little more than half these amounts is the best I would expect from an actual game.

I was interested in seeing how many arrows could be generated with fully optimized cities, necessitating the use of an edited map to create ideal cities and use of the cheat menu to speed things up in order to get a quick answer to the question being posed in this thread.

yes point taken, i am also curious as to what the possiblities are on a regular game.

i will have to monitor my small maps mp games for the results....

one question i have, is four gold the highest amount our trade arrows that a city can get from specials, or do combinations work best. IIRC gold produced the most arrrows...so naturally i would assume this to be the case, but have not tested this theory, especially since i usually end up with an iron or two mixed in with my golds

in this case, not so much in an mp game as production and trade is a nice blend

solo · January 17, 2003, 18:07

DaveV,

Yes, I was speaking about base trade. The road and rail add 33% each to the arrows for each route, as you say. Here is a summary:

Without roads or rail

Route arrows: 52
Base Trade arrows: 318

With just a road connection

Route arrows: 70
Base Trade arrows: 372

Add a railroad connection

Route arrows: 87
Base Trade arrows: 423

The road and rail added 33% to the base trade arrows, resulting in an increase from 318 to 423. Route arrows went up 34% with a road and another 33% after the rail was added, with both providing a net increase of 67%.

The 50% bonuses I was referring to are those that you get from roads and rails when calculating caravan and freight delivery payments, which is a separate matter not affecting the number of arrows a city can obtain for its routes or base trade.

War4ever,

I'd be curious to see what you can manage in a regular game, too.

I'm sure you can not do better than gold, since gold provides more arrows than any other special, and all amounts associated with Trade are based on arrows.

Other trade specials such as wine, silk, and spice are good to use, if 4 gold are not handy, which is almost certain to be the case with a random start. (I have never seen this happen).

Iron is great for production, but useless for trade, but combining it with gold creates a strong city, very potent for MP games.

A mined wine gives very good production and trade and is perhaps the best special when you want or require both shields and arrows.

Oil is not bad, if you want shields early, but would prefer some arrows later, since it can eventually be transformed into silk.

Similarly, wheat is very good for rapid growth, after which it can be mined into silk for more shields and trade.

ramses II. · January 18, 2003, 04:26

Has anybody seen oil on a river yet?
----
In some MP games, I build some cities on (pre)mined oil (if oil is available, else iron or coal) ... only fo caravan production purposes.

Lars-E · January 18, 2003, 08:07

Quote:

Originally posted by solo
I do not think higher trade values can be achieved with a two continent setup having two cities at maximum distance, which will just increase your payoff bonuses, and not the route bonuses. I think the best you can do for a two continent route is 52 arrows.

Would be interesting to see how high the payoff bonus could be.

Caesar the Great · January 18, 2003, 11:03

during OCC games i've seen upper 40's... but that was with a mid-sized AI city - of course my city had the works