Why are Americans so different from the rest of us Westerners

[Alexander's Horse]

I have been pondering this for some time and the internet is where you really see it. Different values, different standards, different issues, different living standards, goals in life, a different view of the world. Different tastes in music, art, literature. A lot of the clashes on this forum boil down to the Americans versus the rest.

Is it the militant protestantism? The burden of empire? The hubris of being the sole surviving superpower? A reaction to 9/11? Citizens feeling they have a duty to act in certain ways with foreigners like the Brits used to do when they were number 1? (USA! USA! USA!) The unbridled capitalism? Other historical reasons? The uncomfortable feeling that maybe we have it better than they do in spite of all their national power? The insularity of the United States?

Is their contact with the rest of the Western world making them uncomfortable? Think twice? Is it changing them?

What is it that makes them so unlike the rest of us?

[Ming]

And why are Aussies so different than everybody else. Could it be because it started out as a prison island, and all the worst scum of the world was sent there to multiply...

Blah... Blah... Blah... Another boring AH troll...

.0000000001/100

[Skanky Burns]

This should be interesting.

[Jon Miller]

this should be boring

Jon Miller
just evening it up

[Main_Brain]

Well what diverts them from me is that my Country has no Nationalism and its quite an taboo to be 'patriotic'.

//Aussies arent different they are just way cooler

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Ming
And why are Aussies so different than everybody else. Could it be because it started out as a prison island, and all the worst scum of the world was sent there to multiply...

Blah... Blah... Blah... Another boring AH troll...

.0000000001/100

Er do you find my observation somehow threatening?

You kind of illustrate my point because you see it as a troll but the non Americans know exactly what I am talking about. Of which your instinctive reaction is a perfect example. Thanks for making my case Ming

[Pekka]

you are not so different from us, as we are not so different from you.

[Jaakko]

AH is one of the better trolls on Poly, I must admit.

[Ming]

No AH... I didn't MAKE YOUR POINT. I think other people have made the real point here. Everybody is different. And that's the fact. The fact that you are specifically pointing out Americans when everybody is different just proves what a troll this really is

[Ned]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
Well what diverts them from me is that my Country has no Nationalism and its quite an taboo to be 'patriotic'.

//Aussies arent different they are just way cooler

What country are you from, main brain?

But you are largely right. Americans are extremely proud of their country, proud of its achievements, proud of its Constitution, proud of its role in WWII, proud of its role in defeating communisim and proud of its role in championing democracy and human rights in today's world.

Most of the anti-American world seem intent, in our view, of demonstrating that America is evil in one form or another - that our achievements are built on slavery, for example, or that we fought WWII for empire and not democracy. But we in the US know differently because we are idealists who elect leaders who are idealists as well. We simply will not support a foreign policy that aims at empire. We will support a foreign policy that aims at stability, democracy and human rights.

Perhaps there has never been a country that operates almost exclusively on idealism, and for that reason most seek to understand the "ulterior motive" in all our actions.

But we are idealists who will fight for democracy, freedom and human rights. This is our Manifest Destiny.

[TCO]

I've answered it before. It's the Revolutionary War and the Founding fathers and the Pilgrims and that stuff. That stuff is what we're all about.

[Inverse Icarus]

technically, you're in the far east. as far as i care to konw anyway.

those dingos and kangaroos must be messin with you're head, mate, shrimp on the barbie.

[ravagon]

I don't think its anywhere near as clear cut or as recent as you seem to imply.
I'd date it largely back to the early-mid 20th C - From their point of view - After coming in late to WW1 and finishing it off they were largely ignored when Europe pushed severe reparations on remnants of the Central Powers, returned to isolationism, and 20 years later had to intervene again in WW2.
Having learned the hard way that Europe couldn't be trusted enough to deal with their own problems and with the waxing power of the USSR on the horizon they were hardly about to make the same mistakes again and began to impose their own will on the outside world.
At a guess they see themselves as having learned from history whereas most others haven't.

And I'd think the US has influenced the rest of the world far more than the other way around...

[TCO]

Read DeToqueville if you want some perspective (he was European by the way). It was written in the early 1830's, yet his analysis of American mood is eerily correct even today.

Seriously, go read it. It is a very easy, enjoyable read. And it is a classic.

[Inverse Icarus]

Greg Proops, a comedian said something alone these lines:

That's how they are...and I realised why America comes off as an ignorant place. Perhaps it's the prevaling attitude of Neo-nazi, psycho-christian, gun toting, truck driving, guinea cap wearer, and malitia armband, Tim Mc Veigh rally, antichoice, redneck, huge belt buckles with their name on which they wear upside down so they can go, "Sh*t! That's my name!" attitude that prevails. And, by large psycho christians set the agenda for everything in my country, cause my country was born of ignorance. The English sent over a group of well armed psycho christians...called the Pilgrims, who had no knowledge of the native language...and bought no farming implements with them. Two hundred and seventy five years later, I hear this all the time in England, "...well, all Americans are fat and stupid."...Really? Well, thanks for sending over the best and brightest to start the party huh! Maybe we it's about time we send back some inbred hicks back to your country!

[Alexander's Horse]

Let's look at a few issues:

Gun control - The US is the only Western country that doesn't have it.

The death penalty - only the United States executes criminals.

Crime and punishment - The US has a prison population about 10 times larger than the Western average.

Support for Israel - only the United States is 100% behind Israel.

War on Iraq - only Americans claim this is somehow anything but a cynical exercise in power and oil politics.

War on Terrorism - does anyone else believe in it outside the US? Note the difference in the muted Australian reaction to Bali and the hysterical US reaction to 9/11. The European reaction to the frequent terrorist incidents there.

Guantanamo Bay - The US is the only Western country that thinks its okay to hold prisoners without legal process.

Social Welfare - The US, although the richest country in the world, is the only Western country without a social safety net. In some ways the US is more like a Third world country for many of its poorer citizens and nobody seems to have a problem with that.

Healthcare - The US is the only Western country that doesn't offer a universal health care scheme to its citizens.

Abortion - the only country where the right to an abortion is under serious threat.

War on drugs - the only Western country which thinks prohibition is the answer.

I mean, don't you find these differences striking? And I've listed just a few.

[The Vagabond]

It's the burden of being at the top. The rest of the Western world rejoices in the shadow of America, in the convenient second place, with a more relaxed lifestyle and irresponsible views of the world.

[TCO]

You can also look at it in reverse, AH. It is easy to be the little brother who *****es all the time, but has the US to call on when they need them.

[Ned]

Originally posted by GP
Read DeToqueville if you want some perspective (he was European by the way). It was written in the early 1830's, yet his analysis of American mood is eerily correct even today.

Seriously, go read it. It is a very easy, enjoyable read. And it is a classic.

Great book. One of the most important books ever written.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Let's look at a few issues:

The death penalty - only the United States executes criminals.

Abortion - the only country where the right to an abortion is under serious threat.

I mean, don't you find these differences striking? And I've listed just a few.

I sure do, every other country apparently believes that it's better to kill criminals before they are born.


ACK!

[Skanky Burns]

They also write the dates out of order, and don't use metric.
The savages.

[Guynemer]

I'm going to make two radical statements (by 'Poly standards) that is sure to make both Americans and other Westerners hate me.

Americans could stand to learn a lot from Euros, Canucks, Aussies, and Kiwis. And Euros, Canucks, Aussies, and Kiwis could stand to learn a lot from Americans.

Of course, I acknowledge that this would require an end to the all the posturing and blaming and arrogance and generalized *****-waving that occurs on both sides, which is as likely an occurance as George W. Bush winning the Nobel Prize for Physics.

[Main_Brain]

- Oh US has Gun Control its just uhm not so strict ;=)
I guess that comes from Old Pioneer Times.

- China,India some Arabian States execute Criminals too

- On what is the Western Average based?

- I partly agree partly disagree. US intervenes but you cant say the 100% support Israel. They also hear the Palastinian side alhough.. well...

- Well i remember the French actions after the Metro terror act...

- no, Turkey does that too

- No, its just closer to the original Idea of Free Market which has upsides and downsides

- Well heathcare is expensive and is directly related to taxes in a country ..some have more some less.

- Mhh African Countries, Arabian Countries, the debate in Italy? was also quite harsh If i remember correctly?

- http://europa.eu.int/comm/public_opi...ebs_172_en.pdf near the end.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by GP
I've answered it before. It's the Revolutionary War and the Founding fathers and the Pilgrims and that stuff. That stuff is what we're all about.

Oddly enough, I was making this point in another thread.

True, but the French state is born of revolution, although France did exist before that (which makes the difference). I think that is some of it, but there is also:

(1) The British Empire: the English speaking countries other than the United States were part of the BE in recent memory and share judicial and political similarities as well as a large contingent of people who moved between them. For example, as a New Zealander I have English, Scots, Irish and Canadian ancestors and my wife has Welsh, Australian and Canadian family.

(2) The Welfare State: the other "Western" countries had successful experiments with the welfare state. In short, apart from occasionally needed fine tuning, the welfare state works. This tends to make people more egalitarian in outlook (for instance: NZ's conservatives are to the left of Clinton).

(3) World War 2: all the other Western states were affected much more deeply by World War 2. For Australians and New Zealanders it was a war in defence of the Empire and we sent our soldiers away to Europe to fight it. For the rest of the European nations it was what I believe is the final antidote to war. None of them are now interested in fighting each other and the inhabitants are generally more anti war than their American counterparts. One reason is that the civilian populations of these countries were devastated by the war or at least threatened territorially. Neither is the case in the US. For Americans wars are fought somewhere else, and someone else's civilian population dies.

(4) We play soccer. American football is boring.

[KrazyHorse]

(4) Canadian Football is much better

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by GP
You can also look at it in reverse, AH. It is easy to be the little brother who *****es all the time, but has the US to call on when they need them.

Lol, we don't believe you are going to come to our assistance.

And who is *****ing? I like America and Americans. I'm just pointing out some pretty obvious differences we see here all the time.

Maybe the problem is Americans are kind of shocked that when the rest of the Western world finds out about the American way, which we hear about here all the time, they say "no thanks" pretty emphatically.

That must seem odd since you are "number 1". I mean, when the Romans and the Brits were on top people wanted to copy them. Why don't people want to copy American laws, values, government policies?

Take a simple thing like accents, noone wants to speak English like an American. When the Brits were on top, everyone who spoke English in the British world wanted to speak it like a Brit. The American way is explicitly rejected by most Western countries. Why?

[monolith94]

"Turkey does that too" is hardly an adequate defense for ANYthing.

[KrazyHorse]

I like how none of his counterexamples are Western...

[DinoDoc]

Lol, we don't believe you are going to come to our assistance.

Then why do you come to all of our wars?

[KrazyHorse]

Cept maybe the French thing. But I don't remember the French getting very hot and bothered about it...