Language Version Fiasco: How Would you have done it?

Inverse Icarus · January 17, 2003, 00:48

Do you think it's better for companies to attempt to make localized versions of games for europeans, or would you be happy with an english copy?

also, since apolytonians are farily well educated, please answer for yourself, and the general populous of your area.

ChrisiusMaximus · January 17, 2003, 03:29

Yes Im English and even then there are many differences in the way we speak and spell so I would prefer an English version, and IMO the more languages you cater for the more sales you make.

alva · January 17, 2003, 04:08

I absolute loathe localised versions, I never buy them!!
Don't really care if it's english or american though.

vondrack · January 17, 2003, 04:36

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
I absolute loathe localised versions, I never buy them!!
Don't really care if it's english or american though.

Exactly. As if you said it for me, alva.

However, as far as general populous... well, that's quite different. Localized versions sell significantly better. That's why most games are sold localized or partially localized (game in original, manual translated).

Tiberius · January 17, 2003, 06:54

IMHO that 10 % (? could differ from country to country, but roughly I'd say 10% - 25%) of the population who speaks english well hates localized versions, as they are full of idiotic words and expressions, which normally one would never use to express something that everybody knows in its english form.

However, for the rest of people, those who don't know english that well, what can you do? Localize.

This is why localized versions sell better.

Working in IT support, I must say that I'd have liked if more software titles were localized. I'd have less to work

"What does this mean? What is this? What is this error? I don't understand this message...
I've got an email I don't understand. What does "delivery failure" mean?
How can I print? Oh, click here where it says PRINT?"

Countries with high rates of software piracy are ironically luckier: since the companies sell less sw, they are tempted to not localize.

Alex · January 17, 2003, 09:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiberius

Countries with high rates of software piracy are ironically luckier: since the companies sell less sw, they are tempted to not localize.

And that is precisely the reason why Civ3 was not localized here in Brazil. Back in the days when piracy was not a concern, the companies still made an effort to fully translate a game... I still have my Portuguese version of Civ II. Sometimes the Portuguese versions were extremely well done (Grim Fandango, for instance, which was entirely dubbed into Portuguese, with excellent results!

)

But... usually these localized versions are inferior to the original ones. I'm glad that they did not try to translate Civ3 into Portuguese... part of the humor in the texts would be lost, such as the Beatles reference ("You say you want a revolution?") and the classic "All your base are belong to us" line.

But then, not having a Portuguese version surely put off some players. In a brazilian forum about Civ3, one of the posters mentioned that he used to play CivII with his brother, but when he (the brother) found out that Civ3 was entirely in English, he pretty much lost interest in the game.

I never thought I would say this, but I have to agree with Infograme$ on one thing: with the high levels of software piracy here in Brazil, I'd not spend time and resources to localize a game that will be highly pirated.

alva · January 17, 2003, 14:50

Quote:

such as the Beatles reference ("You say you want a revolution?") and the classic "All your base are belong to us" line.

This is a very good example, transltors don't always get the joke/reference. So they will translate in to something completely different.(to be honest, it's not that easy either).
Besides if they translate it, it's most often in dutch(not flemsh), wich is * shuders *

Datajack Franit · January 17, 2003, 15:36

I CAN'T play PTW as stupid italians didn't import the english version after releasing civIII in that language

piratebrun · January 17, 2003, 17:31

Quote:

and the classic "All your base are belong to us" line.

Where?!!? Too funny, but I haven't seen THAT one yet...

Cesa · January 18, 2003, 05:58

Quote:

Originally posted by vondrack

Exactly. As if you said it for me, alva.

However, as far as general populous... well, that's quite different. Localized versions sell significantly better. That's why most games are sold localized or partially localized (game in original, manual translated).

Not in Sweden, the only recent PC game I can think of that was translated is Black & White, and that didn't sell any better than most new games. In fact, so many people were complaining about the swedish dubbing that they had to put out a patch to change all text and speech back to english!

Almost no games are translated to swedish, and they wouldn't gain anything in doing so. In the B&W case, the possible profits by releasing it in swedish was probably lost to the cost of making the "back-to-english"-patch...

But then we never dub movies or TV-shows at all (except for cartoons), we use subtitles instead, so we are used to having the "original", be it a movie or a computer game.

This assumption may be wrong, but isn't it so that the contries that dub movies and TV-shows more often translate PC games aswell?

Edit: Oh, The Sims was translated aswell, and I actually haven't heard any complaints about that...it's hard to tell whether it helped sales or not though.

vondrack · January 18, 2003, 07:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Cesa
But then we never dub movies or TV-shows at all (except for cartoons), we use subtitles instead, so we are used to having the "original", be it a movie or a computer game.

This assumption may be wrong, but isn't it so that the contries that dub movies and TV-shows more often translate PC games aswell?

Good point. Even though movies are usually dubbed only for the VHS (and to a lesser degree, DVD) releases and subtitled in movie theatres, there is a very strong dubbing tradition in the Czech Republic. Almost everything on the TV is dubbed...

I can imagine that dubbing/localizing games helps little in Sweden - that must be related to the fact that almost everybody speaks English there (correct?). It will take quite some time before we catch up in this regard...

Cesa · January 18, 2003, 10:21

Quote:

Originally posted by vondrack

Good point. Even though movies are usually dubbed only for the VHS (and to a lesser degree, DVD) releases and subtitled in movie theatres, there is a very strong dubbing tradition in the Czech Republic. Almost everything on the TV is dubbed...

I can imagine that dubbing/localizing games helps little in Sweden - that must be related to the fact that almost everybody speaks English there (correct?). It will take quite some time before we catch up in this regard...

"Everyone" (more or less) in the younger generation(s) speaks english, and since it's mostly young people who play computer games, there is little need for translation.

When I think about it the localisation probably helped The Sims, since a lot of kids play it. But I really don't think it helped B&W at all.

The reasons that we speak english pretty good in Sweden are that we begin reading english in first grade (yep, at the same time we start to learn how to write and read...

) and that we don't dub movies.

alva · January 18, 2003, 15:06

Don't forget that we are smaller countries too (Sweden included

), so that it takes a rather high investment to translate/dub it for a relative low yield compared to countries such as France or Italy.

Here too, just about everyone speaks english...

Alex · January 18, 2003, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by piratebrun

Where?!!? Too funny, but I haven't seen THAT one yet...

Tokugawa likes to say that when he's pissed off.

The Viceroy · January 21, 2003, 08:24

Localisation is great, as long as its the same damn compile of the game ! There's nothing more dumb than to have to support several different versions, when all you needed to do was include the language files/data with a single version. It then allows local people to improve upon your own dire ability to translate, and these files could easily be hosted elsewhere for download.. Having a European version, and a US version with different CD protection etc is just daft, and has caused no ends of problems.

There should be 1 CIV3/PTW version for the world, we should all get it at the same time(release date) and that version should have an option for what language/localisation you would like to play with..

aaglo · January 21, 2003, 09:15

I think that only games, which are localized for finland, are based on Ice-Hockey, Rally and Formula 1 -games (due to their 'high status' among the Finnish people).

And I think we are lucky that it stops there

Alex · January 21, 2003, 09:55

Quote:

Originally posted by The Viceroy

There should be 1 CIV3/PTW version for the world, we should all get it at the same time(release date) and that version should have an option for what language/localisation you would like to play with..

This would be an ideal solution, but patches would be more expensive to produce and would take too long to be released.

Datajack Franit · January 23, 2003, 11:11

You don't want to buy anymore localized games when SMAC mind worms are translated as telepathic bugs

The Viceroy · January 25, 2003, 12:21

Why would having one version make it longer to produce a patch, some people have to wait months and months before they get a patch (after the patch has been released for the US version) .. however, I can't see how fixing a bug in one version can be any different to fixing the same bug in another version, unless Firaxis are very very dumb, and have different designs for each, only Language dependant fixes would add time, and they need to be done anyway.

So I have to agree with your first analysis "Its ideal", but disagree with your belief it will take longer to patch.

Anyway, Firaxis don't tell you when they are releasing things anyway, so it will hardly matter.

BigFurryMonster · January 27, 2003, 12:09

I am =so= glad that I got myself the US version of the game...

Panag · January 29, 2003, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by UberKruX
Do you think it's better for companies to attempt to make localized versions of games for europeans, or would you be happy with an english copy?

also, since apolytonians are farily well educated, please answer for yourself, and the general populous of your area.

hi ,

well US english should have been the only version , it would have saved loads of time and money that could have been used towards developing other aspects of the game (!)

an instruction book in english and the local market language , yes that would have been possible , but as for the rest , one hundred percent of english

and if they would have kept it like that , there would have been almost no software conflicts , ....

have a nice day

joomer · January 29, 2003, 21:22

I'm in Korea and we can only get localised versions here. Publishers such as EA cater for choices among different languages when installing the game, but PTW only had Korean as the language. The translation is awful. Different words are used in the game from the printed manual. The publisher should definitely proofread the translation work.

aaglo · January 30, 2003, 02:22

Here in finland the PTW is coming to stores in 13th of Feb (which is bad). And it's not localized in finnish (which is good).

What is taking so long!?!?!

Panag · January 30, 2003, 07:12

Quote:

Originally posted by aaglo
Here in finland the PTW is coming to stores in 13th of Feb (which is bad). And it's not localized in finnish (which is good).

What is taking so long!?!?!

hi ,

check the civ III section of this site , you can order your copy for 25 USD / EURO , its US english , so you are sure to have allways the newest patch when it comes out , long before a local language and shipping is free , ......

have a nice day

aaglo · January 30, 2003, 07:24

do they take cash?

Panag · January 30, 2003, 07:38

Quote:

Originally posted by joomer

I'm in Korea and we can only get localised versions here. Publishers such as EA cater for choices among different languages when installing the game, but PTW only had Korean as the language. The translation is awful. Different words are used in the game from the printed manual. The publisher should definitely proofread the translation work.

hi ,

check the civ three section on this site , order a copy in the US , its really worth it

the language idea came from infogrames , ....

blame them

have a nice PTW day ( in english )

Alex · January 30, 2003, 07:41

Quote:

Originally posted by The Viceroy
Why would having one version make it longer to produce a patch, some people have to wait months and months before they get a patch (after the patch has been released for the US version) .. however, I can't see how fixing a bug in one version can be any different to fixing the same bug in another version, unless Firaxis are very very dumb, and have different designs for each, only Language dependant fixes would add time, and they need to be done anyway.

Suppose that a number of languages is available to the player when he/she is installing the game. I install the Portuguese version, you install the English version and Bush installs the Korean version. Then Firaxis needs to produce a patch for the game... they cannot produce a patch only for the English version, because there were 7 different languages available to the player out of the box. IIRC, the first patch for Civ3 appeared three weeks after the game was released. Now imagine how long it could have taken to be released if they had to translate the patch to seven different languages. "oh, but these are minor changes", you say... the problem is that these so-called minor changes would still have to be made, and more money would have to be spent doing it (after all, you don't expect the Korean translator to be working for free, do you?). More money = less chance of getting more patches.

Quote:

The publisher should definitely proofread the translation work.

Guess what? Recently Brazilian Civ3 fans released their translation for Civ3, and before doing this they submitted the files to Infogrames Brazil. The company authorized them to release the translation, and it sucks. Large chunks of text were not translated, units names were not translated, some sentences were in the wrong order, some things were simply wrong and a lot of things were missing. I applaud their effort (after all, their aim was to improve a game that they love, without official support), but Infogrames could never have approved the files that were submitted to them.

Panag · January 30, 2003, 07:42

Quote:

Originally posted by aaglo
do they take cash?

hi ,

go to http://apolyton.net/civ3/ follow the link "buy civ three today , click on amazon , the new price is 25.88 , shipping is free for articles over 25 ( USD / EURO ) , .....

have a nice day

The Viceroy · January 30, 2003, 08:24

Alexnm, no you misunderstood me, There was still only 1 version of code, but several languages catered for , not at install time, at runtime !!! (I am divorcing the code and Languages for the very purpose of making it easy to patch)

We all install the same version, however, we all get to pick what language we would like to see Civ in.

So it would not take any more time producing a patch for this, than it would any version, unless (as I stated) it involved changes to the language files themselves, but that work needs to be complete anyway.

Alex · January 30, 2003, 08:31

Viceroy: ahh, now I see it. Yes, divorcing the code from the language files is a nice solution, then.