Personal Vendetta

Blake · January 9, 2001, 23:57

Okay, have you ever taken another factions actions personally? Like how the AI leaders take it personally and declare vendetta on anyone not running there SE choices, although it doesn't actually effect them at all which SE your running.

Anyway the only time that a faction leader has REALLY managed to annoy me was Lal. I was playing as the gaians, under fairly standard settings.

Early in the game I had pop-boomed my way to an assured gov win, but the b****rd Lal bribed my PACTMATES to vote for him, ofcourse it's not the first time I've lost to Lal, but he didn't even have a treaty with some of the factions which voted for him.

A little later Lal pacted with miriam and Yang, this was the most unholy alliance I had ever seen, the most rabid supporter of democracy allied to the commie and fundie, despite the fact I had been friendly to him and was running Demo myself. Action was going to have to be taken.

Not to be outdone I pacted with the facists (spartans), I was also on good terms with Zak and Morgan.

I called up my friendly neighbour miriam and kindly asked her to break her pact with Lal, and she refused. Oh well, not her fault, unlike Lal atleast she talked to me, and despite me being a democracy she was not spouting her bible bashing crap for once. (this is a measure of how large I had grown)

Yang was going on a spartan hunt so I gave the spartans one of my large bases, using Zaks bases I sent suicide gas choppers to perform some cleansing, having managed to get rid of the charter. Unfotuntely Yang was too distant for me to do much good, and morgan decided he didn't want to be my friend anymore, and started picking off passing gas choppers with interceptors (he was begging for a gassing, but I still hoped we could work something out). Soon after the spartans were eradicated from there natural habitat by yangs hoardes, leaving only the spartan city in my territory.

I couldn't help noticing that Lal was now allied with morgan too, Lal had many sea bases and was picking off my formers, uh-oh Lal, bad move.

I grabbed one of his sea bases, suprisinly this didn't improve my relations with him, finally with the Lal, Miriam, Yang pact still going strong I resorted to nerve gassing Lal's close bases, unfortunately I was at the oppisite pole to Lal and he had yang and morgan as a buffer zone, so his homeland was quite difficult to attack.

Then I noticed morgan was threatening Zak, so I sent some gas choppers to protect Zaks bases and they bravely gassed the attacking morgan swarm, then I noticed Zak and Morgan were allies, oops

. At this stage morgy was having a go at the last spartan base, but I had some excellent garrisons protecting it.

Now things really started getting messy, with Lal still on good terms with everyone except me and Santigo I decided to cash in a heap of supply crawlers for my first volley of planet busters. Lal had me really enraged so I went PB happy, First of all I blasted morgan off the face of planet for killing my gas choppers and a former, I must have got Zak with splash damage because he was now at vendetta with me, so I PB'd him too, down to a couple of bases with no garrisons. Lal remained elusive, altough I managed to gas one of his smaller islands. Yang didn't survive the PB'ing.

Anyway I felt better for PB'ing half the planet so I built a "spartan reserve", one of Lal's old islands. I covered it in boreholes and magtubes and soil enrichers and built bases with lots of facilities and gifted them to santigo, who repaid me with a mass probe attack. I decided to overlook the offence, seeing Lal was still painfully unharmed, and that was wrong.

Anyway planet wasn't too happy about my habits and suddenly a zillion locusts turned up in my lightly defended homeland, a heroic effort on the part of my formers mostly saved my bases, the attacks had scared me into reducing my eco-damage to nil, and I managed to capture a half dozen locosts, hey Lal, got a present for ya

I started on a few more planet busters, and some more choppers, I also invested in some flying colony pods which I used to establish bases in Yangs old territory, finally a PB struck home turning UN HQ into a nice lake. I got singularity tech and the new longer range PB's decimated most of the remaining Lal territory, expect for a single UN sea base with no garrison. One of my locusts captured the base, and dragged Lal kicking and screaming back to my punishment sphere, ready for my personal interrigation. Muhahahaha. Muhahahahahah. Muhahahahaha!

With Lal gone I was back to my old self again (that is someone who commits atrocities without just cause

), if Miriam had half a brain between her and her minions she would have sworn a pact of absolute submission and eternal obedience and recognise ME as her one true god, ofcourse she didn't and didn't so my spare planet busters and newly commisioned gravships went to play at miriams place.

Skanderbeg · January 10, 2001, 05:31

I have to confess i take other faction leaders personally very often.
I don't care about their SE choices, let them run what they like. And normally, I am much a builder, and as long as my enemies don't do any dirty things to me, it's OK. If Miriam or Yang is attacking me with rovers,
no problem, they only do their job. I fight them, take one of their bases away, and we will make peace and be the best friend (perhaps even pactmates) afterwords.
But if someone is really pissing me off, I will become REALLY, REALLY ANGRY. For example sometimes I had Roze as a pactmate, and she began to steal techs from me. The first time, I tolerated this. The second time, I cancelled the pact. The third time, and I pushed the red button. The game ended in every faction planetbustering any other faction (I was not the one who won the game, sigh!).
And similar to You, Morgan and Lal are the guys who most the times piss me off next to Roze. I hate Morgan wave with dollar notes to corrupt my troops or bases, and Lal: He speakes of peace and friendship, but if You trust him and turn, You get a knife in Your back!

Sprayber · January 10, 2001, 09:06

In my experience Lal and Dee are the turncaoats of the game. I expect things from Yang and Miriam, but Lal and Dee get so pushy that I just have to take them out. Santiago usually reamains a pactmate for the longest if I don't use the nuclear option. Once Lal strayed into my territory with a puny unity rover. I was at war with Yang on the other side and really wasn't comfortable with this. I as pacted with Roze who was pacted with Lal. I had tried to pact with lal to have some friendly bases near my future enemy Santiago. But no, he thought I was going to use the pact to take over the world. Anyway I tell him to withdraw. I am so sorry he says and withdraws. He procedes to come right back accross the border with the same unity rover. I tell him to withdraw again and he does the same thing. What happens two turns later. His puny rover strays accross again. I politly ask him to leave and he says we shall see whose territory this is. So I scale back my war on Yang and procede to destroy Lal. Funny enough, Roze doesn't seem to care. I talk to her three times during the war with Lal and she says nothing. But then again I did give massive help to her in her past war with the Spartans.

The diplomat · January 10, 2001, 15:26

Oh sure, I have taken AI factions' actions personally.
In my last, I was playing as Lal. I was on a medium/small continent with Deirdre and Miriam. Deirdre was growing fast with more than 7 bases and had cornered me with no room to grow. I only had about 4 bases. Deirdre refused to trade tech and was generally pretty rude. Also, Deirdre completed the Human Genome Project right before me (I was just 2 turns from completion!) When she completed the Empath Guild and made herself Gov, that was it, I couldn't take it anymore. A few turns later, I develop chaos weapons (Deirdre still had impact!) and launched the fastest blitzskrieg invasion on her that you have ever seen!! First I immediatly conquered her base with the Human Genome and Empath Guild (both SP's were in the same base), then I took her HQ ! Just a few turns later, it was all over. Down to 1 base, Deirdre surrendered and signed a pact. I immediately elected myself governor. I won a diplomatic victory in 2335. I had over 900 votes just to myself. The other factions all put together only amounted to 300 votes!

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No permanent enemies, no permanent friends.

Xarathas · January 10, 2001, 15:56

I think I'll just make a list here.

Factions I'll never pact with unless in dire need: (why, because I've never been able to hold a pact with one of these for too long)

Miriam
Yang
Ursurpers

Factions that I'll pact with but can't trust:

Lal
Spartans
Pirates
Roze(if on same continent, damn probes)
Cha'dawn

Factions that I can trust with pacts

never once turned on me)

Diedre
Roze(if on different continent)
Cyborgs

The rest I'm not too entirely sure.

Sindai · January 10, 2001, 16:23

Lol, gotta love those games where it seems like diplomacy NEVER goes right for you, so you end up saying "Ah screw it!" and gas/PB everyone into oblivion.

In any case, the only time I ever really get mad at other factions is when they are really weak and a pactmate, and I come along and conquer their enemies for them. Then I give them all the conquered bases so that they can be useful trade partners.

THEN, with all this increase might, they either revoke their pact (even if submissive) or probe me. Eventually I figured out the main reason for this was all the nerve gassing I did earlier....if you keep your reputation clean they're far more likely to stay faithful.

I particulerly hate it when one faction tries to probe one of my allies, while framing me for it. Particulerly if the faction in question is ALSO my ally....

Sprayber · January 10, 2001, 17:39

quote:

Originally posted by Xarathas on 01-10-2001 02:56 PM
Factions that I'll pact with but can't trust:
Lal
Spartans
Pirates
Roze(if on same continent, damn probes)
Cha'dawn
Factions that I can trust with pacts

never once turned on me)
Diedre
Roze(if on different continent)
Cyborgs

Your right about Roze. Never trust her if she is next to you. But she is faithful if on a different continent. As a matter of fact, I don't think I am very friendly to any of my imediate neighbors.

Wiglaf · January 10, 2001, 18:17

quote:

I was playing as Lal

Diplomat, you do not want to say that around Blake

Actually I take 'em personally too. I have a natural hate for Marr and Santiago. Yang's a real fool too, I had an alliance going for over 150 years with him and he calls it off to launch an air raid on me. Fool

Transcend · January 10, 2001, 19:18

Aliens will always remain the number one enemy for me, wiping them out can open more ways of winning the game.

If Yang or Miriam is in the game, I will attack them as soon as they come into my range. There is no peace possible with either of them until they surrender, period.

Morgan is very treacherous and should be eradicated once Miriam or Yang are finished off.

Lal and Deirdre are too backstabbing, jealous bastards.
Once your power exceeds theirs, they will start plotting behind your back and become nasty. However, they surrender sooner than Yang and Miriam, and are more valuable as submissives.

University and Cyborgs can be your pact brothers throughout the game as long as you remain in Knowledge. According to my experience, they are the most reliable and loyal factions in the game.

Blake · January 10, 2001, 20:23

I must say my preferred pactmate is Zak, he tends to be loyal, and not very proby. Domai is also really stable, Santigo makes a fine ally. Not too much experience with Cyborgs and Angels, but probes don't worry me anyway.

Morgan is a funny one, once I was playing a 3 player MP LAN game and I crushed Morgy and made him submit to me. Anyway my (human) pactbro wanted one of morgies bases, I refuse, then the other human player declares he is going to sail over and take out morgy. I explain I can't let him do that because I am the great Lal and Morgan submitted to me and bla bla and I kick your ass if you try. The guys a real wuss so he backs off.

I've just completed my land bridge and magtube to my pactmate, and suddenly half a dozen morganite probes are heading along it, ignoring my bases. Next turn they head further along, almost to my ally. The next turn morgans intent becomes clear as he subverts half a dozen of my pactmates bases, using my magtube network (and my gifted money, no doubt

). LOL, I almost wet myself laughing. It really served my pactmate right, seeing he was Zak and had major probephobia, but I kicked morgans arse as punishment anyway.

Skanderbeg · January 11, 2001, 06:05

There are two things said in this thread that I don't would agree:

1. Roze can't be trusted, even she's on another continent. I know this from very bad experience.
I was pacted with her, and she brought probes by a transport ship and probed me!

2. Surprisingly, Miriam can be a trustable pactmate.
One of my last games, I managed to smith a pact of three human factions against the Aliens: Me, Miriam and Zak, and none of them was submussive! Together,
the UNITED MANKIND kicked Marr's butt. Real fun.

But another thing what I take really personally: If
I empty an enemies base out of defenders with my troops, ready to conquer it in the next turn, and a third faction grabs it away right before my nose.
This really pisses me off, even if (or especially)
if the third faction is a pactmate!

Aredhran · January 11, 2001, 06:28

The most annoying pactmate is Sven. He keeps founding seabases along your perfectly terraformed coastline, stealing tiles from your coastal bases. Moreover, his ability (or rather, lack thereof) as a builder combined with low efficiency make him a poor researcher. He's only good to provide for advanced outposts to station your airforce before attacking a remote location.

Solver · January 11, 2001, 10:26

I hate Miriam for one reason: her fanaticism about Jesus Christ and Christianity makes me shiver in the real life, sitting at my PC. That's why I'm going to edit her faction file in order to change the phrases and base names. I'm Jewish, and I don't want to play with such a faction

. Also, I never have luck with pacting w. Miriam, as I never run Fundy, and that's why she hates me.
Zak and Lal are my common friends, as I love Dem / Knowledge, often Green econ for the native capture chance.
Yang is tough, especially if we're close, as his perimeters are damned annoying.
Aliens for me are strange: I have much more luck with H'minee than with Marr, but usually they need to be wiped pretty soon.

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Solver - http://www.aok.20m.com

Wiglaf · January 11, 2001, 19:44

Solver? They designed Miriam to be a Christian-basher.

Sprayber · January 12, 2001, 07:57

quote:

Originally posted by Skanderbeg on 01-11-2001 05:05 AM
1. Roze can't be trusted, even she's on another continent. I know this from very bad experience.
I was pacted with her, and she brought probes by a transport ship and probed me!

Man, She must have really hated you. I usually share a little with her so she will lay off of me. I don't usually pact with her if she is next to me. Like I said before. I usually conquer my neighbors and pact with those away from me.

quote:

But another thing what I take really personally: If
I empty an enemies base out of defenders with my troops, ready to conquer it in the next turn, and a third faction grabs it away right before my nose.
This really pisses me off, even if (or especially)
if the third faction is a pactmate!

Yeah that really ticks me off too. There have been several time when I have been fighting in an area with three different forces. Sometimes I wait and let someone else empty a city and then rush in. I have been in a situation where Myself(yang), santiago, and lal were in the same area and we were all at war with each other.

Aredhran:The most annoying pactmate is Sven. He keeps founding seabases along your perfectly terraformed coastline, stealing tiles from your coastal bases.

Lal does this to me a lot. Not on the scale that Sven can do. But Lal likes to do this to me for some reason. Many times if I am in a war and capture some unimportant bases I try to get him to trade with me. Usually he looses the base to my enemy anyway and I just march in and get it back. Hmm. Do you think this is why he usually declares war on me.

Qilue · January 12, 2001, 11:38

There's a way to deal with sea bases on your coastline.

From a post my me in this thread -
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum12/HTML/001381.html?36

(snip)
Sealurks.
AI built a sea base on top of your coast base? Build 6 of these, surround the offending base and release all of them into the wild. AI -1 base.
(end snip)

Also works with mindworms on land.

(edit - remembered something about IoD's)
[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited January 12, 2001).]

Blake · January 12, 2001, 23:25

quote:

Originally posted by Xarathas on 01-12-2001 12:32 PM
Hmm, maybe it's just me but contrary to what some of you feel about Roze, she is my absolute *favorite* pact mate(when she's not on my continent of course). She's always faithful, never probed me once, and always gives me free techs when I ask to exchange but don't have any to give =D

I don't mind Roze either, an AI faction has to be quite lucky to succesfully probe me due to my HEAVY use of sensors and my ARMIES of formers, in fact HSA is one of my least important SP's (The only reason I'll ever build it is to stop Zak getting it)

I like to keep my submissive pactmates up to par with tech, I don't give them my very latest stuff but usually they are within 3-4 techs of me, this keeps them happy and they dont resort to probing.

If they do probe I let them off with a warning, then give them a few techs to make them happy again. I don't like them stealing from me, but I'm happy to gift the exactly same thing to them for free... hmmm. One minor bonus of being probed by pactmates is security locks.

To prevent them trading my tech I make sure I (and my other pactmates) are there only friends using "declare war on..." or framing probe actions.

Finally I love to probe my submissive pactmates, I drain there energy and incite riots to train my probes up to elite. I also steal tech from there bases to add security locks, making it that much harder for other factions to steal my alliances tech. My submissives dont mind at all, but my rep can take a big hit and other factions complain about my treatment of so and so and say they wont tolerate the same being done to them.

ps: Does anyone find it amusing when you have just gone on a rampage through morgans territory, he is this far > < from being shipped off to the punishment sphere when he surrenders, you accept.

Then after giving up every credit he owns morgan explains that you have to resume repayments for that 20 credit loan, and he has added interest and PENALTIES...

Xarathas · January 13, 2001, 01:32

Hmm, maybe it's just me but contrary to what some of you feel about Roze, she is my absolute *favorite* pact mate(when she's not on my continent of course). She's always faithful, never probed me once, and always gives me free techs when I ask to exchange but don't have any to give =D

Horus · January 14, 2001, 18:28

Funny thing that all on the board agrees about good old Lal being such a bad sport. He is one of the best pact mates in the game (as long as we don't compete about 1th and 2nd place of course). Maybe it is because I go planned democracy asap the most of the game, but that ain't THAT unique. Even if many Morganites out there are freemarket believers.

Horus · January 14, 2001, 18:29

Funny thing that all on the board agrees about good old Lal being such a bad sport. He is one of the best pact mates in the game (as long as we don't compete about 1th and 2nd place of course). Maybe it is because I go planned democracy asap the most of the game, but that ain't THAT unique. Even if many Morganites out there are freemarket believers.

niteowl · January 15, 2001, 00:57

I tend to take ALL faction-actions personally...

I mean how dare they NOT vote for me as supreme overlord of the universe?

Although I have never resorted to using planet busters, I usually build a skimship probe team and ram it down there throat (naturally making it look like someone else did it) and watch as they take each other out.

And on the topic of shared ownership of a continent...unless the land is large enough to support at least 20 or more bases (combined total) they immediately have a contract out on their heads. I don't share land with NOBODY!!!!!!!

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007-007-007-007-007-007-007-007-007-007-007
"My dear girl don't flatter yourself.
What I did this evening was for king and
country. You don't think it gave me any
pleasure do you?

--- James Bond

Skanderbeg · January 15, 2001, 06:46

My recent game, Domai (formerly seen by me as a trustable pactmate) has pissed me off really, and this in a clever way I haven't expected by the AI.

In early game, we were pacted. Then he revoked pact because I (Cha Dawn) was running green.

Domai was on a big island next to my continent. What did this bastard do? First he built a landbridge between his island and my continent. Then he sent a former to connect our road nets. When I contacted him to move his former out of my territory, he offered me pact. I was so stupid and thought, some more money through the pact - nice - and agreed.
But then - Domai sent probe teams to steal my techs!
First I only warned him not to do that again. But he probed me a second time. I stopped the pact and declared vendetta. After I conquered the first of his bases, he surrenderd - and the next turn I had again his probe teams on the way to my bases. Additionally, he began to produce a planet buster.

That was enough for me. I decided to wipe him out of planet's surface and put my troops on the way.
I conquered his whole continent (with his 3 SP's :-)).
All ist still left of the Drones are two small faraway
sea bases, and my Sharks will take them out in the next few turns.

My reputation was totally ruined during this actions, and I am now in vendetta with all over factions (have also broken my treaty with Morgan, because he started to build a PB which could reach some of my important bases), but I don't bother. I strong enough to fight them all.