[Public service announcement] Beware of TurboTax

ixnay · January 17, 2003, 16:01

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/...,821479,00.asp

In case you were thinking of getting TurboTax to do your taxes, be warned:

Quote:

Intuit is following in the footsteps of giants. Wrongheaded, mistrustful, overcontrolling giants.

When Microsoft released Office XP and Windows XP with product activation embedded in both products, consumers and pundits alike responded with a gigantic hue and cry. Many Windows users were angry and felt betrayed by Microsoft. Others were uneasy and wondered whether product activation in Microsoft's products was a grim harbinger of things to come in the software industry.

Well wonder no more – product activation has now made its way into one of the most popular software programs ever created, TurboTax. And, as an extra bonus, the latest release of TurboTax comes with Macrovisions's obnoxious C-Dilla malware. C-Dilla prevents you from copying the CD by disabling your CD-RW drive. That means it's monitoring your CD writing activities all the time. As if you needed more processes running on your machine. Early reports from some users indicate that C-Dilla has caused interference with other software and that it is inordinately difficult to get rid of, perhaps requiring a low-level hard disk format. And to make things even dicier, Intuit apparently did not overtly inform purchasers of the new TurboTax that C-Dilla was included and would be installed on their systems.

We published a heads-up about this recently (TurboTax Customers Upset By DRM ) and the response from TurboTax customers was overwhelmingly angry and negative in the discussion in the ET forum. Intuit has sown the seeds of a mass migration from its tax software to competitors such as TaxCut (see PC Magazine's review of TaxCut). If you read the posts in the discussion, you'll see that many come from longtime TurboTax users who have vowed not to purchase Intuit products again until the spyware and activation are removed.

Anger at Intuit wasn't just apparent in the ET and PCMag forums. The Member Reviews area on PCMag also had very negative comments (see the TurboTax review link above and scroll down to read member comments). And former Intuit customers aren't just posting in our forums, they are taking their case directly to Intuit.

In my own case, I was on the verge of buying TurboTax until I caught the review we published on PCMag and noticed the blurb about activation. Unfortunately, we missed the C-Dilla thing, but as always, sharp-eyed readers caught the omission and gave us a heads-up about it. When it came time for me to buy my tax software, guess which product I picked? You got it – TaxCut. I didn't give TurboTax a second thought. Nor will I until product activation and spyware are completely removed from the product.

There's a lesson here for all companies: don't put activation and spyware into your products. Microsoft got away with it to a certain extent because it pretty much has a monopoly (at least for the time being). It can do certain things with impunity that other companies simply can't get away with. Intuit is not Microsoft and it, along with every other software company out there, had better realize that and act accordingly. Otherwise, they had better get ready to lose customers to their non-spyware, non-activation competition.

We all need to make our voices heard. This is no time to hang back or be passive. We need to take a stand and boycott all products that have activation and spyware in them. We need to contact the companies producing these products and let them know that we won't be buying anything from them until the spyware and activation are removed. We also need to contact companies that aren't including activation and spyware and let them know that we value their products and that we'll keep supporting them by purchasing their products.

H&R Block, are you out there? Remember where your new flood of TaxCut customers is coming from. Keep the spyware and activation out of your products and you will keep your customers. Unlike Intuit.

chequita guevara · January 17, 2003, 16:04

Aww nuts. Can these other programs import data from Quicken as well as your TurboTax info from last year?

chequita guevara · January 17, 2003, 16:09

Quote:

January 13, 2003
Intuit Soothes DRM Fears With TurboTax Uninstaller
By Mark Hachman

Intuit has added an uninstaller feature for those users who are worried about the long-term effects of the Macrovision SafeCast/C-Dilla DRM software on their systems.

"As of today, we're going to give them an uninstaller," said Scott Gulbransen, director of corporate communications for the company. "We listened to that issue."

"The company is run based on the experiences of its customers," Gulbransen added. "If we have to move, we have to move."

Intuit's decision was prompted by a small, but vocal minority of customers which stridently objected to Intuit's inclusion of the MacroVision SafeCast technology in the TurboTax 2002 release, which Macrovision bought from C-Dilla, a U.K.-based developer.

The uninstaller, which will be pushed to customers through an automatic Web update at the time the program is run, will uninstall SafeCast/C-Dilla files and folders at a user's discretion. However, uninstalling SafeCast/C-Dilla will also prevent TurboTax from being run, Gulbransen said.

According to Intuit, the C-Dilla files were added to prevent unauthorized copying of the Intuit software, while still allowing customers some flexibility in doing their taxes. Intuit executives had wanted to add copy-protection software for some time, executives said.

"It's pretty simple," Gulbransen said. "We want to protect our IP."

Macrovision did not return calls for comment by press time.

Intuit includes a CD key in its documentation, which users are required to enter to activate the software. TurboTax then transmits the key up to an Intuit server, which kicks back an acknowledgement that unlocks the software. At no time is any uniquely identifiable information exchanged between a user's PC and Intuit's servers, Gulbransen said.

Gulbransen characterized much of the furor over the C-Dilla software as misinformation, based upon years-old stories characterizing C-Dilla as "spyware". (The SafeCast software adds a "Cdilla" folder to a user's hard drive.)

Actually, TurboTax is the second Intuit product to contain the SafeCast/C-Dilla software; Intuit added the DRM software to its QuickTax software for the Canadian market last year. Gulbransen declined to comment when asked if SafeCast would be added to other Intuit products outside the tax group. DRM software has not been added to TurboTax For the Web, Intuit's online version of its tax preparation software.

According to Gulbransen, Intuit's TurboTax 2002 will only allow taxes to be filed or printed from a single machine. However, the software may be installed on numerous PCs, and files may be saved and copied from one machine to another. "What this means is that you can prepare your taxes on your laptop, for example, and then file them from your home computer," Gulbransen said.

Intuit also allows multiple filings from the same PC, allowing spouses to file separately.

Gulbransen said it was too early to say how sales had been affected by the controversy. "A lot of what happened out there has been misinformation," he said. "It gets out there, quoted from postings which aren't even accurate."

Part of the fault lies with Intuit, however. Gulbransen said a sales agent had mistakenly told at least one customer that the software could not be transferred from one machine to another, setting off the controversy. "But then there's certain people who are opposed to any kind of activation," he added.

ixnay · January 17, 2003, 16:13

Quote:

The uninstaller, which will be pushed to customers through an automatic Web update at the time the program is run, will uninstall SafeCast/C-Dilla files and folders at a user's discretion. However, uninstalling SafeCast/C-Dilla will also prevent TurboTax from being run, Gulbransen said.

"Hurry up and get your taxes done, so you can get our software the hell off of your hard drive as quickly as possible!"

chequita guevara · January 19, 2003, 01:16

Well, TaxCut is less expensive than TurboTax and it imports data from both Quicken and last years TurboTax data files. Both give you your choice of free or discounted software (up to $30 off Quicken or Money and WillPower or Home & Business Attorny for free). Since Quicken now probably has Safecast and C-Dilla also, I'm opting for the less expensive one.

DRoseDARs · January 19, 2003, 01:28

Thanks both of you (Che and Ixnay) for the heads-up. My stepdad and his best friend are both considering getting TurboTax. Guess not anymore when they read this...

JohnT · January 19, 2003, 02:26

Yeah, I appreciate the warning as well. Good job!

chequita guevara · January 19, 2003, 03:55

Damnit!

I can't find my stupid TurboTax files. I think they got killed when I had to reload WinXP.

And I can't find my friggan hardcopies either.

JohnT · January 19, 2003, 03:58

Btw, I noticed that the spyware is still going to be installed and the CD burner disabling will still work... the only difference is that now you are allowed to uninstall it - but only if you uninstall the Tax program as well.

So nothing has changed, except Intuit is now allowing us to delete their spyware from our computers. Mighty big o' them!

As long as they are going to use the spyware, I will no longer use TurboTax. Period.

chequita guevara · January 19, 2003, 04:17

That's why I got TaxCut. It's less expensive than TurboTax after rebate and you get more software (Money 2003 and WillPower or HomeBusiness Attorny--both free) plus no spyware and no cd-r crippling. Not thrilled about switching to a MS product (Money over Quicken) but Money has a bebt reduction planner which you need to go to the next higher version of Quicken to get.

Oerdin · January 19, 2003, 04:27

My parents just bought this year's edition of TurboTax so I guess it's to late for them. I'm just going to make sure I go over to there house and do it on their computer instead of loading it on mine.

chequita guevara · January 19, 2003, 04:58

Well, I just finished. IMO, TaxCut's less annoying than TurboTax. I'm a little annoyed, cuz I know that I lost out on some of my 179 deduction because of my lost data. Grrrrr. One of these days I'm gonna back my data up.

TaxCut also isn't quite complete, and there are still some forms I have to download when they are ready. At least I'm getting a hefty return, even though I elected not to have any taxes withheld from my unemployment. Hotdoggie! I'll be able to knock my credit card down below the limit at long last and pay off my long distance bill.

DRoseDARs · January 19, 2003, 05:35

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
My parents just bought this year's edition of TurboTax so I guess it's to late for them. I'm just going to make sure I go over to there house and do it on their computer instead of loading it on mine.

Instead of being a GOOD offspring and trying to remove the badness from their computer...?

Skanky Burns · January 19, 2003, 06:39

Why do you need to buy software to do your tax?

DRoseDARs · January 19, 2003, 06:45

Because not everyone is a tax analyst, nor do they feel like learning.

Unless your emphasis is "buy" tax software...
...My stepdad's been looking for "stuff" elsewhere online and has yet to find a good copy. Finally, Ted (his friend) decided to just go get the program from the store. In a few hours when Richard wakes up to go golfing with Ted, they'll both see copies of the articles presented in this thread and hopefully avoid pushing their blood-pressures through the roof...

Skanky Burns · January 19, 2003, 07:09

Yeah, the emphasis is on "buy".

The ATO puts up software for free on their website come tax-time in Australia.

Swissy · January 19, 2003, 11:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Why do you need to buy software to do your tax?

Because liberals want everyone but the poor to jump through hoops to get a tax refund. Things would be much simpler if they eliminated all the myriads of deductions and went with a lower single tax rate. But then that would mean lowering taxes, something a liberal would rather die than allow to happen.

Swissy · January 19, 2003, 11:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
Yeah, the emphasis is on "buy".

The ATO puts up software for free on their website come tax-time in Australia.

We do have the tax programs available for free. But you have to either use the 1040EZ form (mostly students and the poor) or qualify for an Earned Income Credit (where you get all you taxes refunded plus extra money, again the poor only). There are a couple of companies that give out their software for free, and the give you a deal on e-file.

Hueij · January 19, 2003, 19:23

Wow, am I happy to be a Eurocom living in a Eurocommie country. Over here you can download tax software for free from the...

...Ministry of Finances own tax website

Dr Strangelove · January 19, 2003, 20:28

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, I just finished. IMO, TaxCut's less annoying than TurboTax. I'm a little annoyed, cuz I know that I lost out on some of my 179 deduction because of my lost data. Grrrrr. One of these days I'm gonna back my data up.

TaxCut also isn't quite complete, and there are still some forms I have to download when they are ready. At least I'm getting a hefty return, even though I elected not to have any taxes withheld from my unemployment. Hotdoggie! I'll be able to knock my credit card down below the limit at long last and pay off my long distance bill.

Years ago those @#$&^%*(% at Intuit bought out the company making the tax software that I had faithfully used for years, forcing me to use Turbo Tax because nothing else would import past years data.

chequita guevara · January 19, 2003, 20:56

Well, Doc, now you have a choice. I'm quite happy with TaxCut. It was even easier than TurboTax.

Happily I found last year's returns and was able to recoup my 179 Deduction (I get an additional $22 back, weee!).

Now I just have to send off a form from last year, 8453-OL. I can't believe I missed it and didn't send it at the time.

JohnT · January 19, 2003, 21:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Hueij
Wow, am I happy to be a Eurocom living in a Eurocommie country. Over here you can download tax software for free from the...

...Ministry of Finances own tax website

Good God, son. You actually trust that program? I mean, would you trust a nutrition scheduler program that you downloaded from Mcdonalds.com?

Nice thing about US tax software is that it is designed to minimize our tax burden, a nicety likely not well-developed by your governments software.

Dr Strangelove · January 19, 2003, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Well, Doc, now you have a choice. I'm quite happy with TaxCut. It was even easier than TurboTax.

Happily I found last year's returns and was able to recoup my 179 Deduction (I get an additional $22 back, weee!).

Now I just have to send off a form from last year, 8453-OL. I can't believe I missed it and didn't send it at the time.

I need the more complete program as my taxes are fairly complicated. For instance, in the past I've hads to declare some of my investments on my children's behalf, so I have needed a program with ALL the freakin' forms.

Of course, the way things went last year maybe they should pay me for throwing away the money.