Forests obsolete with railroads?

SuperSlinky · January 17, 2003, 21:31

Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to my calculations it is always beneficial to chop down forests and mine or irrigate the base terrain as soon as you get railroads. A forest will always be 1 food, 2 shields and railroads do nothing for it. But if you chop down the forest then mine and railroad the base terrain, you will get 1 food, 3 shields for plains, and 2 food, 2 (or 3) shields for grasslands. You could also irrigate instead of mine and trade 2 food for 2 shields.

Consequently, you end up with a very ugly map with those mines covering everything.

Jaybe · January 17, 2003, 22:48

You are quite correct, with the following qualifications:
1. You don't WANT more food. Specially applicable if you have already chopped the forest and found that it is not a shielded grassland.

2. You want the forest there for its additional defensive benefits.

3. (Dirty Trick Department): It is NEUTRAL territory, and you want to impede the growth of another civ's town that is going to appear.

Or even worse, it's by a city of YOURS that you are about to lose!

Datajack Franit · January 18, 2003, 10:22

I leave forests on the ground as.. I like the way the map looks

Colonel Kraken · January 18, 2003, 12:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
I leave forests on the ground as.. I like the way the map looks

This is exactly what I do. In fact, I'll add forests sometimes for that reason. There is usually enough different types of terrain around my cities to not make it necessary to fully utilize every piece of terrain.

Ben Williams · January 18, 2003, 13:02

Actually, forests on turndra with railroad give as much as mineing. It does have a slight defense bonus, and it looks a lot nicer.

Purple · January 18, 2003, 14:04

I cut down everything for the 10-shield bonuses, then reforest selectively, especially on tundra, as Ben says.

Mad Bomber · January 18, 2003, 14:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Williams
Actually, forests on turndra with railroad give as much as mineing. It does have a slight defense bonus, and it looks a lot nicer.

Forests w/ tunra is the one example where it is beneficial to have them as opposed to worked tiles. I do like to keep some greenspace around, and usually plant some forests in the gaps between the city borders' or if my population is too high in a particular city (above 25)

alva · January 18, 2003, 15:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber

Forests w/ tunra is the one example where it is beneficial to have them as opposed to worked tiles. I do like to keep some greenspace around, and usually plant some forests in the gaps between the city borders' or if my population is too high in a particular city (above 25)

Wouldn't it be easier to turn them into specialists?

SuperSlinky · January 18, 2003, 19:23

I think what I will do is make it so forests can be mined for 1 shield. Then they will go from useless to very valuable, and railroads will make them more valuable. I am also toying with the idea of removing the ability to mine grasslands and plains, but I'm afraid this would slow down the already too slow ancient era. BTW, I always play my own mod.

Mad Bomber · January 19, 2003, 01:21

Quote:

Originally posted by alva

Wouldn't it be easier to turn them into specialists?

Certainly it would be easier, it just wouldn't suit my purpose, which is to reduce the citizens of my metros (or at least limit them) to control pollution and Global Warming. I usually start this between the time Hospitals appear and the time I start building Mass Transits.

Emma · January 19, 2003, 08:51

i just build loads of workers. they can clean up the pollution, and i'm not too bothered about global warming anyway. i like those huge cities.

normally my cities produce a worker in 1 turn, so that's one way of getting the pop down and cleaning up ever more pollution. otherwise i just burn other peoples cities down and enslave the population.

Mad Bomber · January 20, 2003, 02:22

emma:

GW is not usually a major problem, unless you start throwing nukes around...It's not something that I like doing, but planting greenspace and limiting the size of metros is a great way of trying to cope with a "limited" nuklear war, and the sooner you start planning for it the better. Of course if you have a full blown Nuke War, planting greenspace and limiting population will not be effective.

Emma · January 20, 2003, 13:30

ahhh... that's why. i don't usually let it come to a nuclear war. (i'm only playing at monarch level right now, and as i'm comfortably winning i think i will play a harder game next).
i try to get rid of annoying civs really early and then deal with others when they attack me in the middle ages

(i'm rubbish at middle ages gameplay and never get any middle age wonders).
i struggle a bit then, but soon catch up and win space race. have any of you won by domination on a huge map with nearly all civs? i just can't seem to do it. there are always civs that have all the luck and have weak neighbours and so have a huge empire. i would be destroying meself if i attacked. and then a third civ would take over. but i make sure i have a huge tec lead and the stupid ai has just learned to build nukes when i have nearly completed my space ship.

Mad Bomber · January 20, 2003, 18:34

Emma:

I play Regent, but on Huge maps, 16 CIV's and only with Conquest as a victory Condition. I will always be fighting a modern war with Nuclear powers, so preparation is a must, even though I always hope that they won't be used.

Azeem · January 20, 2003, 20:22

What would you suggest? Give 1 point in "mining" for forests in the editor or will that unbalance the game?

BTW, I accidentally set the move rate for roads to 1 while altering some of the values in the editor and that SERIOUSLY unbalanced the game.

Although I was handicapped by it, the AI was even worse.

MoonWolf · January 21, 2003, 04:22

I tried yesterday with adding mining to forrests on a pre-made map. It was nice to have it there. For some reason, a forrest square with a fur resource on it, produced an additional shield giving a total of 4 (2 for the forrest it self + 1 for the mine + 1 for ??). Also, the AI have started to love the forrest. It was actually planting it instead of choping it down! However, I think this was only for a period before electricity or before the AI changed to a more productive government. I haven't finished playing the map yet, so I'll see how it ends up

Stuie · January 21, 2003, 09:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Emma
i try to get rid of annoying civs really early and then deal with others when they attack me in the middle ages

(i'm rubbish at middle ages gameplay and never get any middle age wonders).
i struggle a bit then, but soon catch up and win space race. have any of you won by domination on a huge map with nearly all civs? i just can't seem to do it. there are always civs that have all the luck and have weak neighbours and so have a huge empire...

I've actually had success by selling or even gifting techs to the weaker Civs (on other continents, mind you - I don't want to bolster any Civs on my continent) so that they can muster some sort of defense against the larger aggressor Civ. I even toss them a couple resources if they need them. Of course, care must be taken to maintain a balance so that when I get around to invading the other continents I can still crush any and all opposition. It's really a matter of playing the stongest Civs against each other, and propping up the weaker ones as needed.

All of which has nothing to do with railroads in forest, which provide extra trade, by the way, if nothing else. I always keep strategically placed forest close to my borders, but the rest usually comes down.

trevor · January 21, 2003, 19:59

I guess I take the more utilitarian approach. With the beginning of the Industrial age and rapid industrialization it makes sense that forests go the way of the Dodo; it's what actually happened in history. But, then again, I only chop down the forests in the 21-tile city space. I leave the other tiles alone; National Parks and the like.

Master Zen · January 22, 2003, 02:27

I was doing some experimenting because I kinda hate the "deforestation" too. Here are some preliminary results:

The AI will still chop down forests even when eliminating the mining bonus to plains and grasslands.

When I gave forests a 3 shield production, the AI began planting forests on grasslands!

NOTE: I have yet to experiment on this mod for a more protracted period, say 10 turns. The AI began chopping some forests in the first case but perhaps will leave some others resulting in the "checkerboard" irrig/mine pattern now being irrig/forest. I'll post more info in a while.

MoonWolf · January 22, 2003, 04:43

Quote:

Originally posted by raguil_79
I was doing some experimenting because I kinda hate the "deforestation" too. Here are some preliminary results:

The AI will still chop down forests even when eliminating the mining bonus to plains and grasslands.

When I gave forests a 3 shield production, the AI began planting forests on grasslands!

NOTE: I have yet to experiment on this mod for a more protracted period, say 10 turns. The AI began chopping some forests in the first case but perhaps will leave some others resulting in the "checkerboard" irrig/mine pattern now being irrig/forest. I'll post more info in a while.

Looks like we are thinking along the same lines here... Haven't tried it yet, but maybe it helps to increase the cost of planting a forrest?

statusperfect · January 22, 2003, 07:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Mad Bomber
Certainly it would be easier, it just wouldn't suit my purpose, which is to reduce the citizens of my metros (or at least limit them) to control pollution and Global Warming. I usually start this between the time Hospitals appear and the time I start building Mass Transits.

Agree totally.

Another thing worth pointing out is that it's easier to get a WLTK-day with a lower population.

Panag · January 23, 2003, 18:43

hi ,

forest > no railroad , so units move slover true them , more intresting

bonus grassland > irrigation

grassland > forest

tundra > forest

plains > forest

nah , they dont get "obsolete" , .....

have a nice day