The greatest feature of each Civ game

Optimizer · January 18, 2003, 09:43

Most Civ games have contributed with one or more features which have. or really should be, implemented in future ones. Features that combine realism with strategic depth, fun and simplicity.

Civ 1: The concept of making a Civ game
Civ 2: The isometric map, reputation
Civ 3: The bargaining table
Colonization: Specialist training
SMAC: Social engineering (played it very little)
CTP, CTP2: (haven't played them)
Europa Universalis: The province-based map, the popup windows

Solver · January 18, 2003, 10:45

You should try CtP, really

. You just can't hate Public Works.

Civ 2 isometric map, you joking? That's among the things I most hated about it, you could never see the right things you wanted to.

spartak · January 18, 2003, 13:36

The most annoying thing I found with CIV2 wa sthe way my forces would follow on after an attach and try and occupy the square even if all i wanted was for them to kill whatever was in the square. That really pissed me off/

Kassiopeia · January 18, 2003, 16:50

Social Engineering was very good... though the unit workshop was beautiful too, also the Planetary Council had it's pointers. But in SMAC SE was definitely the best feature

Cyclotron · January 18, 2003, 17:01

Civ1: The whole game

Civ2: Many hit points (not 2 to 5 like Civ3), isometric view, great scenario editor
CTP: Uhhh... slavers were kinda fun.
Civ3: Bargaining table, leaders, no rushing wonders, trade system, resource system, culture

What kind of view would you guys like, if not isometric?

Oh Solver: I most certainly can hate PW.

Alex · January 18, 2003, 17:06

SMAC had the Planetary Council, the Social Engineering and the Unit Workshop. All wonderful things, though I think that the UW would not fit well in a traditional civ game.

I liked Public Works in CTP, and... combat! It is way better than the one-on-one approach in other civ games.

Immortal Wombat · January 18, 2003, 17:35

Civ2: map editor
Civ3: Culture points towards victory. Not sure about flipping though.
CtP: PW, Stacking(!!)
CtP2: SLIC2

DrSpike · January 18, 2003, 17:52

You have to have to played both Civ1 and Civ2 a lot to appreciate it but Civ2 added a lot more than some here have suggested. Civ1 blew me away because it was so original......an incandescent new gaming experience.

Civ2 tidied up by introducing a far better balance, as well as reputation and the other factors mentioned. It is undeniably a better game......though paradoxically its quality stems from its similarity to the original.

SMAC added diversity of factions, more flexible govts in the form of social engineering. It also offered more flexibility in units, and more bells and whistles in terms of terraforming. Great concepts......but hard for an AI to grasp.

CTP/CTP2 showed us just how great all the other games are.

Immortal Wombat · January 18, 2003, 18:12

and equally, just how great they could be or could have been but for some not-so-minor details.

DrSpike · January 18, 2003, 18:17

SMAC had the best approach to stacking IMO......dunno why people like the mindless CTP approach.

Method · January 18, 2003, 18:24

the best feature of SMAC was the SE table (able to be changed through secret projects as well), and how each faction had distinct disadvantages and advantages, as opposed to civ3's much less complex industrious, scientific, etc. civ's don't have any disadvantages to exploit.

also SMAC's terraforming which went way beyond build irrigation/roads/railroads. you can actually raise the sea floor, build mountains, sink enemy bases into the sea, and turn areas from arid to rainy, thought it's true the AI did a crappy job with them...

oh and crawlers...we can't forget them

DrSpike · January 18, 2003, 18:30

Quote:

Originally posted by TKG
oh and crawlers...we can't forget them

Crawlers were completely imbalanced though......they should have been much much dearer. In SP the AI didn't use them enough, and in MP the ubiquity of crawlers was yawn inspiring. Good idea on paper.......terribly implemented though.

Immortal Wombat · January 18, 2003, 18:38

SMAC had stacking? How did that work?

DrSpike · January 18, 2003, 18:45

I said it dealt with stacking in the best way. A quick taxonomy:

Civ1: best unit defends.......and all die if it loses.
Civ2: Same
SMAC: Best unit defends, but all units take collateral damage if it dies. Hence (in MP at least) stacks of doom are asking for a big phat missile.

CTP/Civ3: Only the unit that is attacked dies. It's a little mindless IMO.....less skill necessary to successfully attack.

yaroslav · January 18, 2003, 18:57

In my opinion

Civ1: The original game
Civ2: Scenarios - The most customizable game of the series
Civ3: Resources. I don't know for sure.

What I wonder is why Civ3 didn't include a decent scenario editor...

War4ever · January 18, 2003, 20:43

civ1 learning history
civ2 rewriting history
civ3 longing for new history

Locutus · January 18, 2003, 21:01

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
I said it dealt with stacking in the best way. A quick taxonomy:

Civ1: best unit defends.......and all die if it loses.
Civ2: Same
SMAC: Best unit defends, but all units take collateral damage if it dies. Hence (in MP at least) stacks of doom are asking for a big phat missile.

CTP/Civ3: Only the unit that is attacked dies. It's a little mindless IMO.....less skill necessary to successfully attack.

I think you should consider that in CtP and CtP2 you can attack with multiple units at the same time, you can and will attack all units in a square (not just one of them as in Civ/SMAC), and there are different kinds of attacks: melee, flanking, ranged, bombarding... That makes a HUGE difference and is FAR superior and more realistic to any other Civ game.

War4ever · January 18, 2003, 21:04

agreed, the combat model in civ leaves something to be desired, much less does it have any realism

Lemmy · January 18, 2003, 21:15

CtP1/2: Stacked combat, public works, bigger city radius, border along with fortifications.
SMAC: SE, Unit workshop, Planetary Council
Civ3: Culture.

DrSpike · January 18, 2003, 21:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Locutus

I think you should consider that in CtP and CtP2 you can attack with multiple units at the same time, you can and will attack all units in a square (not just one of them as in Civ/SMAC), and there are different kinds of attacks: melee, flanking, ranged, bombarding... That makes a HUGE difference and is FAR superior and more realistic to any other Civ game.

Maybe it was mean of me to lump CTP with civ3 on that regard.

I'm not after realism.......but the effect on gameplay. I will admit my CTP experience is nothing like as deep as other civ games, so feel free to tell me why CTP is better than I imply.

I did play CTP out of the box though......and the word on the street is it needs to be heavily modded to be playable. Not really a great advert though, huh?

Method · January 18, 2003, 23:21

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
Crawlers were completely imbalanced though

so are a lot of things in SMAC, which comes from the AI's crappiness. they are still a very good idea, and an easy way to beat the crap out of the AI (which is not necessarily a good thing)

Solver · January 19, 2003, 07:49

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike

Maybe it was mean of me to lump CTP with civ3 on that regard.

I'm not after realism.......but the effect on gameplay. I will admit my CTP experience is nothing like as deep as other civ games, so feel free to tell me why CTP is better than I imply.

I did play CTP out of the box though......and the word on the street is it needs to be heavily modded to be playable. Not really a great advert though, huh?

As you wish/ In unmodded form the games are really not too great, especially CtP 2 - because of a *terrible* AI - if you ever played civ, you would be able to beat it on toughest level with first try.

For CtP2, the Apolyton Pack is basically a big patch made by Apolytoners that fixes the bugs in game, and makes it work properly, also with a better AI. And the upsides of CtP2 (+ Apolyton Pack) are:

+ Public Works. A nice model for field improvements, more strategic than workers, and certainly less tedious - no longer moving a hundred units by hand every turn.

+ Sliders. While CtP has governments, the global civ sliders in it also add something from SMAC SE, giving you the best of both.

+ Stacks. Combining units into armies taking in account their abilities (ranged, melee, bombard, etc). Not only it fixes the phalanx vs. tank problem and is quite realistic, this approach makes you *think* of how you build your armies.

+ Unconventional warfare. That is some stuff that can be very fun...

+ Caravans. Work way better than in Civ 1 or 2, and these are actually fun to be dealing with.

+ Stats, empire feel. Ever saw how much statistics can you get?

Well, that's a brief summary

.

Rasbelin · January 19, 2003, 12:39

Civ - it's nostalgia

Civ II - multiplayer support and working scenario support
Civ III - improved graphics, bartering table, culture

P.S. Stella Polaris 0wnz anyway.

Immortal Wombat · January 19, 2003, 15:12

Stacked combat, Stacked movement! Ranged attack stats! You can move more/attack/defend with than one unit with one order. It completely revolutionises unit movement, beating seven shades of **** out of the Civ model.

LDiCesare · January 19, 2003, 18:23

Civ1: It's just CIV.
Civ2: I don't like isometric maps either. Modding is what I found best in that game.
CtP2: Stacked combat. Laughing at the default AI.

+:
MOO: Ship design (unit workshop).
MoM: Heroes.

Odin · February 8, 2003, 00:10

Civ2: Reputation

CtP1: Public works, slavery, terrorism, biowarfare, stacked combat, future technology.

CtP2: National borders, 1000 turn game,

atrocities.

SMAC: Social Engineering government model.

Civ3: Unique units, culture, settler/worker split, millitary costs gold instead of production, diplomacy table, civ bonuses, armies.

Panag · February 8, 2003, 02:47

hi ,

CIV I ; the base for the idea

CIV II ; the scenarios

CIV III ; the editor

have a nice day

VJ · February 8, 2003, 09:07

Civ 1: Nostalgia, whole concept of Civ-game
Civ 2: Easy scenario creating (rule-tweaking via notepad)
Civ 3: Civilization bonus' (militaristic, scientific, etc)
SMAC: SE
Colonization: Specialists which actually were vital for success.
CTP : PW

Panag · February 9, 2003, 10:08

hi ,

civ II had one great feature ; "cheating" the perfect tool for adjusting scenario's , ....

have a nice day

DarkCloud · February 9, 2003, 15:28

THE BEST

Civ I- The History Screen (Playbackable!)
SMAC- social engineering, unit design/attributes
Colonization-
CTP- Public Works! No Settlers Needed for Public Works!/Slavers
Civ II- Modability!
Civ III- Crap.
EU- Diplomacy
EU II- History Screen!

THE WORST

Civ I- AI/Random Maps
CTP- Diplomacy/Graphics/SUPER-Modern Ages
CIV III- Graphics/Bugs/Nonmodability
EU- Nonmodability
SMAC- Graphics
Colonization- Bugs