 |
View Poll Results: What do you do with the first worker?
|
 |
Build roads to expand
|
  
|
60 |
52.17% |
Add to capital city
|
  
|
1 |
0.87% |
Make other tile improvements
|
  
|
51 |
44.35% |
Aah, just disband it. Who needs 'em anyway?
|
  
|
3 |
2.61% |
|
February 1, 2003, 17:20
|
#31
|
Emperor
Local Time: 11:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Brasil
Posts: 3,958
|
I build my second worker only when I found my second city, except if I need a second worker right after I build my capital, due to geography and general setting of the land.
I usually don't bother about the trends of the civ I'm playing with, I find myself always roading and mining at the start. But I think that industrious workers may occasionally change my relationship with other parts of the game, like settler production or building improvements in my first cities.
__________________
'Yep, I've been drinking again.'
|
|
|
|
February 1, 2003, 19:51
|
#32
|
Deity
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: of naughty
Posts: 10,579
|
I usually keep the worker, build a settler, found a new city, build another worker in the capital, build 1 or 2 units, then start the Pyramids.
__________________
A true ally stabs you in the front.
Secretary General of the U.N. & IV Emperor of the Glory of War PTWDG | VIII Consul of Apolyton PTW ISDG | GoWman in Stormia CIVDG | Lurker Troll Extraordinaire C3C ISDG Final | V Gran Huevote Team Latin Lover | Webmaster Master Zen Online | CivELO (3°)
|
|
|
|
February 1, 2003, 21:47
|
#33
|
King
Local Time: 10:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,119
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by raguil_79
I usually keep the worker, build a settler, found a new city, build another worker in the capital, build 1 or 2 units, then start the Pyramids.
|
I like to build a second settler-worker-spearman combo from the capital but this is very close to my opening. the first worker develpes the best 3 tiles of the capital bfore expanding the road system.
__________________
* A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
* If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
* The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
* There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.
|
|
|
|
February 4, 2003, 12:45
|
#34
|
Chieftain
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Sun Prairie WI
Posts: 46
|
Some people have fun seeing which strategies work best for them. I personally just like to play but, I l ike to read anyones ideas to get new strategies.
Chris
__________________
I came, I saw, I got whooped....
|
|
|
|
February 6, 2003, 13:17
|
#35
|
King
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Heavens
Posts: 1,167
|
Though I have never tried adding my first worker to my capital city - I road and then mine - I can see a case being made for it in SP mode, not just MP.
(I play Regent, Huge world, continents, all opponents)
When you start in especially rich terrain - many rivers and cattle, wheat, etc. - you are generally surrounded by other civs. Here, expansion is key - I think most players would agree that on SP mode at least, expansion in the ancient era is key to the later game.
Therefore, if my land is yielding me a DECENT amount of shields already, I can see the case to get that other settler out there ASAP. ESPECIALLY if I'm playing an expansionist civ, and my scout has already found another rich city site.
I intend to try this strategy next time I play as an expansionist Civ. Good work Spericles, for bringing an innovative (if maybe not the best) strategy to light.
|
|
|
|
February 16, 2003, 16:06
|
#36
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 11
|
Er i just hit automate for me first worker, lazy thinking? maybe, strategicley wrong? of course, much simpler? most definatly!!!!
|
|
|
|
February 16, 2003, 17:14
|
#37
|
Emperor
Local Time: 09:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: flying too low to the ground
Posts: 4,625
|
my second worker comes much later in the game, as i usually play an industrious civ and dont really need a mass of workers early on.
i'm a "contained REXer" of sorts, i will often send out a settler party to colonize a chokepoint / border area FIRST, and then REX the inside. the border city created is usually corrupt, so i use that to pump out workers, and a temple for culture.
some games i end up with a "worker city" or two, which grow at the same rate as they produce workers. i'll usually grab 2 or 3 from those cities.
but yea, i'm all about the roads early on, mines soon after.
i almost never irrigate, as it's near useless in despotism.
__________________
"I've lived too long with pain. I won't know who I am without it. We have to leave this place, I am almost happy here."
- Ender, from Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card
|
|
|
|
February 17, 2003, 02:33
|
#38
|
King
Local Time: 10:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 1,119
|
Uber:
I like to max out my REX phase and the only way to do that is to build lots of workers. Put that choke point city out too far and its liable to fall to a peeved German, Scandanavia or Mongol attack party. You are right about irrigation except in the plain areas of the world.
__________________
* A true libertarian is an anarchist in denial.
* If brute force isn't working you are not using enough.
* The difference between Genius and stupidity is that Genius has a limit.
* There are Lies, Damned Lies, and The Republican Party.
|
|
|
|
February 17, 2003, 05:56
|
#39
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: High in the Sierra Nevada
Posts: 25
|
Very fine indeed,start the jump in production early with growth.What more efficient way to grow larger cities;join worker first doubles city size. Build crops earlyw/roads(terrain permitting) this increases size quickly and is ongoing .Ten turns(or so)on down the road the crops are still adding to the cities growth and the civs development. Furthermore,the worker is doing it still/again(perhaps for new city;building on premodified terrain is a blessing)and the capitol city is/has produced a unit for protection or deturrance.Most ptw MP games I play are Elimination games. It is very unwise to build a second city (quickly or not) without doing two vital things FIRST. The capitol city must have at least one unit within and the second(new) city must have protection immediatly.To do otherwise is risking a lot on the chance that no one will be near enough, not to pillage, but to take a/the city(end game in Elim. mode)or capture the lonely settler (Now TWO workers for the enemy)leaving a teary eyed ruler wondering....What have I done, aargh....
__________________
"It's really just a question of your honesty...But glittering prizes and endless compomises shatter the illusion of integrity." - Peart
|
|
|
|
February 17, 2003, 07:50
|
#40
|
Emperor
Local Time: 16:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: MY WORDS ARE BACKED WITH BIO-CHEMICAL WEAPONS
Posts: 8,117
|
hi ,
when you get scouts its always good to get some of those asap out there , ..... you can do this with easy , in the mean time the worker has build some roads and some mines , maybe provided a link to a lux , .... then a defense unit , in the mean time you got a city size three or four , a second worker , a temple , a settler , a defensive unit , ....etc , ...
when playing as the americans your capital expands fast
have a nice day
|
|
|
|
February 18, 2003, 07:42
|
#41
|
Chieftain
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: England
Posts: 31
|
I always use my first worker to build a road to (hopefully) my next city site so that the second settler can settle ASAP.
I am interested in what Sperricles said about building on top of resources. Did you mean on top of or directly to the side of? I have recently begun to wonder what benefits, if any, are gained from the land square that you place your cities on. So, if I settle on top of an oil well (not knowing its there of course) doesn't it just disappear?
Jan
__________________
We shall show mercy but we shall not ask for it
|
|
|
|
February 18, 2003, 13:06
|
#42
|
Chieftain
Local Time: 07:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.
Posts: 35
|
Do not underestimate this
hmmm building on oil......not sure....other resources I don't seem to lose.
As admitted earlier...I now agree that in most cases it is better not to add the settler......BUT not all cases.
Case #1: 1 hour time limit
Adding the worker can make a score difference that is significant
Case #2: Aztecs
This is the technique I suggested earlier and have been fine tuning for the MP environment (tiny/small map) where it simply excels and even more so with elimination mode on.
Step 1 - Add worker to city
Step 2 - Build settler in 5 turns
Step 3 - Build 2nd city 2 squares from 1st (away from where you think enemies will most likely be ...ie often towards coast if visible)
Step 4 - Build barracks in each city
Step 5 - Pump out 8 jaguars (Scout with the first ones)
Step 6 - The second you see a border.... back off
Step 7 - Unite the Jaguar Stack
Step 8 - At very end of turn move stack right next to city (which is also the enemy's first view of you)
Step 9 - Attack at the very beginning of the next turn
Step 10 - Rejoice in your victory!
I find that this strategy works well for the following reasons: You have the extra time to leave cities undefended at first because YOU are the aztecs meaning no one else can get an army to you quick enough. Also because you are the aztecs...they are going to be more careful about protecting their cities in the early turns rather than diverting more resource to exploring.
Most people expect a 1-2 jags to show up in the early turns and pillage or try a 1 vs 1 with a stray city that only has one warrior or spearman for defense. By the time your barracks and stack is ready...even if they have seen one of your exploring jags...enough turns have passed that they now think you are pretty far away from them... and thus less of a threat. And they dont know that you have found their city because you retreated as soon as you saw their border. Because enough time passed without seeing you..they have probably been willing to expand a little more and ease up a bit on the defense to do it. And indeed if they have not planned unusually well they will be very vulnerable. The 8-stack will easily take a city that even has 1 or 2 spearmen. Even 3 spears is very conquerable if they are not veterans. Steps 8 & 9 are also key in helping to keep reinforcemnts from getting there in time.
I have not had an elimination game yet with this strategy where at least one player has not died early to the hand of the 8 stack. Others have even reported its succes even against mighty carthage...although they sent a few more jags to help. This strategy does struggle especially against greece, and sometimes against carthage (though carthage has trouble producing a mass of defenders even though they are strong defenders and often overrelies on the defense to ecnourage expansion)
The key benefit of this tactic, besides one dead player in elim mode...has been that the aztecs can finally rush a large veteran army at a time that is still very early....but is unexpected. Contrasting to the aztec players who build the jags all from that first city only..as a rush...my method will help cut down on maintenance after that 4th unit, giving a reasonable chance at not getting buried in the tech race after your first foe dies.
__________________
Luck favors the skilled because it knows it will not be wasted.
Last edited by Sperricles; February 21, 2003 at 02:33.
|
|
|
|
February 19, 2003, 03:19
|
#43
|
Warlord
Local Time: 08:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 193
|
need roads if there are no rivers
__________________
I spend most my money on Wine, Women and Song.. the rest i just waste.
|
|
|
|
February 19, 2003, 08:06
|
#44
|
Settler
Local Time: 14:49
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 6
|
Sperricles,
I thought the idea of adding your first worker to your city had died a death a long time ago, there have been many studies and tests showing it to be counter-productive.
The MP scenarios you outline seem to warrant a second look though, if I ever play online with AP turned on, and on a small/tiny map I may give it a try.
As long as no-one is pretending this is useful for single player or PBEM, it seems everyone agrees. Indeed, most of the negative comments arose before you ever mentioned online MP games. Most people who have played civ for a long time would not touch online MP with a barge pole, as it is far from what we know and love about civ. Because online MP playing is so different from 'normal' civ games the strategies are completely different, and stating that your strat is for these kinds of games may alleviate confusion in the future.
FWIW, PBEM games are much more akin to single player games, except you have humans involved too. The strategies are very close to the single player strategies, with the exception that you can't exploit a human the way you can an AI.
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49.
|
|