France Vows To Block UN Resolution on Iraq War - Page 13

DinoDoc · January 23, 2003, 17:08

Quote:

Originally posted by paiktis22
the operative funtion in this being that he is the chancelor

Which means that he gets the blame or credit depending how the economy does. It's rather like American politics in that respect.

Bereta_Eder · January 23, 2003, 17:10

which means that he IS the chancelor...

DinoDoc · January 23, 2003, 17:11

Too much ouzo in a day is bad for you.

Oerdin · January 23, 2003, 17:13

Here's a quote from the lastest issue of The Economist.

"Russia, too, has cautioned America against mounting military action while the inspectors want to continue their searches. But according to a high-ranking Russian military source, an American-led attack will take place anyway. “According to the information we have, the operation is planned for the second half of February,” the source was quoted as saying on Russia’s Interfax news service. He added that the campaign was expected to last about a month..."

Bereta_Eder · January 23, 2003, 17:15

which means, mississipian moneypenny that your IQ closely mirrors that of the KKK...

he IS still the chancelor...?
on what was he elected on????

not his suces with economy...

did you get it yet my little wiper snaper?

DinoDoc · January 23, 2003, 18:06

According to the UN, is a "smoking gun" needed as France and Germany suggest?

Resolution 1441 didn't demand a smoking gun. It was an olive branch to Iraq to give them a chance to avoid military assault by proving that they had actually disarmed. So far Iraq's efforts at this have fallen far short of that goal. The effort to shift the burden of proof to the US only serves to further damage the UN's credibility.

Bereta_Eder · January 23, 2003, 18:09

It can also be seen as pressure delivered from those opposing the war

Comrade Tribune · January 23, 2003, 18:38

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Considering how Schroeder is being drug over the coals for his handling of the economy, no.

Considering that he is still in power despite his bad handling of the economy, yes.

Ned · January 23, 2003, 18:46

Quote:

Originally posted by GePap

Well, If i put all my chips on 32, and the wheel stops at 32, certainly, everything was for the best. Doesn't mean I would ever put all my chips on 32, though.

Look, I can greatly disagree with the policy, but only fools and idiots utterly discount the possibility of good coming from a gable they would never take.

With war coming, we will all get the chance to argue the results, soon enough.

Well, the rest of m life calls: i shall return. tommorrow.

Two years ago, I hit three 29's in a row. On the third one, the crowd let out such a roar that someone else on the table "stole" someone's else's thousdand dollar chips. The police were called, and they replayed the video of the third 29 in a row. The police complemented me for being a lucky fool and arrested the theif.

The guy whose chips were stolen looked be 45. He had a stunning blond of about 18 with him. She was dress somewhat like Britney Spears, but her top was loose fitting cutoff that exposed some of the bottoms of her breasts. No bra.

Well, when I hit the third twenty nine, she jumped up and really put on a show.

Noone remembers the theif taking the chips.

I wonder why?

Ned · January 23, 2003, 19:22

Quote:

Originally posted by DinoDoc
According to the UN, is a "smoking gun" needed as France and Germany suggest?

Resolution 1441 didn't demand a smoking gun. It was an olive branch to Iraq to give them a chance to avoid military assault by proving that they had actually disarmed. So far Iraq's efforts at this have fallen far short of that goal. The effort to shift the burden of proof to the US only serves to further damage the UN's credibility.

DinoDoc, I beleive the "burden of proof" issue is the critical dividing line between the two sides. When the French and others of their persuasion argue for more time to permit the inspectors to do their job, they seem to believe that the inspectors must find actual WoMD before we know that the Dec. 8th declaration was false. The underlying premise is that Iraq was not lying when they said on Dec. 8th that they had destroyed 30 thousand WoMD warheads, tons of VX, and their Anthrax and Smallpox bioweapons - even though they provided no verifiable evidence of their destruction.

The French and German positoins are so unreasonable as to raise serious questons about their motivations.

Tripledoc · January 23, 2003, 22:39

"Everybody cool down."

Joscka Fischer
German Foreign Minister
23 Jan 2003

Oerdin · January 23, 2003, 22:54

Have you folks heard the latest news? It appears the German & French governments have gotten their panties twisted reguarding a statement Rumsfield made to reporters saying the frogs & krauts were being "problems".

Boris Godunov · January 23, 2003, 22:56

Oerdin, not quite. Rumsfeld openly insulted them, and they are rightly pissed. If I were Powell, I'd march over to the Pentagon and sock Rumsfeld in the teeth for his big mouth.

Comrade Tribune · January 23, 2003, 22:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Oerdin
Have you folks heard the latest news? It appears the German & French governments have gotten their panties twisted reguarding a statement Rumsfield made to reporters saying the frogs & krauts were being "problems".

Huh? Rumsfeld has been a problem for a long time. Talk about sitting in the glasshouse...

Drake Tungsten · January 23, 2003, 23:06

Quote:

If I were Powell, I'd march over to the Pentagon and sock Rumsfeld in the teeth for his big mouth.

Not that I think Powell is a *****, but I think Rumsfeld could kick his ass...

cavebear · January 23, 2003, 23:08

Why does anyone care what France thinks?

Ned · January 24, 2003, 02:01

I'm sorry, but France and Germany are a problem and if they begin making a stink about Rumsfeld, there will be a tremedous backlash in the US.

I don't know where all this will lead, but those two countries are supposed to be allies - on our side. But they are acting like they are on the other side.

We should begin to ask very hard question concerning France and Germany.

faded glory · January 24, 2003, 02:27

Only 36 months ago France, Russia and China were all lobbying to lift sanction against Iraq pre-911 so they could get there Pre-Gulf war debts out of baghdad (Totaling some 300 billion btw.)

Now france wants to "contain" Hussien in a box. And "Freeze" his WoMD program. What a joke. very nice. The ole' FP switcheroo when you realise how wrong you were in the first place.

You know the french made a killing selling those 200 Mirage F-1 Jets to Saddam's airforce. you know the ones that bombed the kurds in halabja? And those GCT Mobile artillery pieces used to gas the iranians in Karbala-5? Ya that was the great peace-loving french government all right. They got some nerve.

People ***** about Reagan giving 8 million dollars to Baghdad in the 80's. I dont wanna hear it. And here we have 3 totally responsibly UNSC members who built this guys army. Ya thats right. You dont see Iraqi F-16's and M1 abrams. Nope, you see Stuff from france, Russia and china. Mostly Junk, since none of these countries have a word for Victory anyway.

Ya go ahead. call me a troll. Its all true. Just look it up.

Drake Tungsten · January 24, 2003, 02:29

Quote:

Mostly Junk, since none of these countries have a word for Victory anyway.

I particularly liked that line...

Ned · January 24, 2003, 02:39

Faded, I hadn't realized that France would stab an ally in the back for money.

HershOstropoler · January 24, 2003, 03:54

Dino:

"So, "It's the economy, stupid!" doesn't really apply to German politics?"

Let me put it this way: German elections are usually not decided by the respective state of the economic cycle. Kohl won in 94, Schröder in 02.

"Which means that he gets the blame or credit depending how the economy does."

To a much smaller extent than in the US, and with much less impact on voter decisions.

Azazel:

"are you denying that governments have the ability to do this?"

To varying extents. A lot easier in the US and Israel, for example. Well, what should the german government have done? Beating the wardrum would have killed them at the polls.

Ned:

"Well, GePap, what if NATO declares war on Iraq? The French and Gemans do not have a veto there."

Darling, NATO does not declare wars. And if it would, NATO is running under the principle of unanimity.

"I hadn't realized that France would stab an ally in the back for money."

What ally?

Boris:

"Rumsfeld openly insulted them, and they are rightly pissed."

Bah. They should be amused.

Ned · January 24, 2003, 04:01

Quote:

Originally posted by HershOstropoler

Ned:

"I hadn't realized that France would stab an ally in the back for money."

What ally?

So true. The last time the French helped us was in the 1780's. Since then they certainly have not even been friendly.

Sikander · January 24, 2003, 05:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tribune

Dunno; the North Korean strat works: 'Yes, you CAN go to war against us, but prepare to lose Seattle, if you do. And you know I mean it.'

Sounds like a powerful strat, really.

It depends on how much the President cares for Seattle really. IIRC they voted for Gore last time, so I wouldn't count on the deterrent if I were the Dear Leader, especially the closer we get to the election.

Oerdin · January 24, 2003, 05:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Richelieu
What about Vietnam ?

I guess they figured 25 years was long enough. Besides that bastard Johnson screwed everything up royal by refusing to invade the north. Powel is right; either some is worth fighting for and you go all the way or you don't fight.

Johnson figured he'd just sort of fight and sort of not fight.

notyoueither · January 24, 2003, 05:58

To be fair to Johnson, he did not know where the bulllets ended and the ICBMs began. It would be nice if all decisions could be black and white, but they seldom are.

Az · January 24, 2003, 09:32

Quote:

To varying extents. A lot easier in the US and Israel, for example. Well, what should the german government have done? Beating the wardrum would have killed them at the polls.

how so? I just hope that you won't say that the european people are better-informed, enlightened, and have a stronger political will, that us, lowly scum.

HershOstropoler · January 24, 2003, 09:42

As for Israel, the situation of constant threat of security or even national existance makes it a lot easier.

For the US, several factors. Less cynicism, the particular style of american reporting, lack of information on foreign policy, appeal to nationalism.... all things that are just a matter of degree.

HershOstropoler · January 24, 2003, 09:42

You might still want to explain what exactly the german government should have done?

Ned · January 24, 2003, 12:04

The US revealed yesterday that Saddam has let the scientists know that they and everyone in their families will be killed if they talk to the inspectors.

Is there anyone here on Apolyton who is even the slightest way surprised by this?

Drake Tungsten · January 24, 2003, 12:09

I'm sure that Wolfowitz was lying about that, Ned. God knows that the Americans never tell the truth, while Saddam is a paragon of virtue.