RAH rules: The Neverending Saga

ColdWizard · January 22, 2003, 13:30

Under Ming's strict orders (

), here yet another new thread. New readers that missed the first two threads may want to read them, as they help illustrate how these rules have evolved (links are in part 6. of this post). Settings are listed first, followed by what's not allowed and allowed, some quotes from rah on how the rules got started, a brief glossary, and some reference threads for additional reading.

1. Settings
Level: Deity
Barbarians: Raging Hordes
Production: 2x
Movement: 1x
Map size: 39x49 for 4 player, 37x47 or smaller for 3 player (map size varies, the only consistent factor is TINY ROCK)
Landmass: Large
Landform: Continents
Climate: Wet
Temp: Cool
Age: 3 Billion
# of Civs: 4 (ideal, 3 if necessary), no AI
Time limit: None
Huts
Turn-based

2. Special stipulations
2a. Not Allowed: Taking too long on your turn without good reason, Stealing Shields (see section 5.), unsinkable boats and non-crashing aircraft, contact with ai (see below), city bribes (see below), alliances, wonder trading, unit teleporting (includes caravans), tech trading, blatant cheats (map peeking, non-unit creation, sabotage proofing, cheat-o-matic, lag-related cheats, etc.), caravan re-homing, selling improvements/disbanding units after losing the city/unit, building the Great Wall in games of 3 players or less, hard feelings.

Contact with AI - One more addition when someone drops and the AI takes over. You many not initiate contact and you must refuse all contact with the AI.

NO city bribe - If the barbs take a city, you OR anyone else may bribe it. BUT, If someone drops out of the game and the AI takes over, and bribes one of your cities. Only the person that owned the city may bribe it back, since it normally shouldn't have been bribed in the first place. AND others should refrain from conquering the city until the original players has taken back control.

2b. Allowed: Incessant whining (see below), incremental buying, black clicking, tech stealing agreements, trade agreements (to allow caravans to be delivered), all other player arrangements (any agreements can broken when advantageous), all wonders (Great Wall is only allowed in games with 4 or more players, other wonders may be banned in duels on player agreement), pre-worked settlers, selling improvements/disbanding units before losing the city/unit, diploguiding, Scouse Gits' Magic Hut Finder Program (see below).

Incessant whining - mandatory while enjoying superior starting position with multiple trade specials, especially to annoy those less skillful.

The Hut/Special Finder - don't use it during your turn!

2c. Other: Restart when host gets techs, try not to penalize player drops (reloading if necessary). Airbases, allowed only as real airbases, not allowed in
city radius nor allowed to build a line of them to block air lanes.

3. rules.txt Modifications: Oracle expires with Industrialization.

4. Origination of (as posted by rah)
They are not called RAH rules because I made them up. They have just evolved over time with the group that we play with. The only reason they are called that is
because in the early day's i had the fastest machine and a cable modem, therefore, I usually hosted. And they know the name annoys me

[and more from another thread]
Sounds like our early games with XIN, right after MP came out. We all cheated, trying to figure out what we could do. Every 30 minutes or so, XIN would say, found another one. It was always hilarious. After a couple of months we started to discuss which ones we would allow and which ones were banned. That was the beginning of "RAH" rules.

5. Glossary - definitions provided by: Ming, Scouse Git[1], rah, smash.
caravan re-homing - unlike normal units you cannot hit the 'h' key to change the home of a caravan - however the 'support from this city' option is available from within the city screen - this has led people to believe that rehoming is not an intended feature and hence is a cheat -- the advantage -- imagine all your caravans - even those produced by a poxy 2-city - being rehomed to your size 24 SSC and sent - well anywhere you like!!!
the cheat-o-matic - is a tsr that allows the game parameters to be changed on the fly while the game is running.
diplo-guiding - using a diplomat or spy (or other unit that ignores ZOC) to lead other units through an enemy's zones of control.
disbanding units - disbanding units in anticipation of losing the unit to bribery is allowed so long as it's done before the bribery occurs.
non unit creation - Move a unit from the city that it is homed to, to another city. Now this requires good timing. Open the screen to home it to the new city. Now wait till the machine is switching over to your turn, quickly press the homing selection. If you catch it right, the unit will not home to the new city but become a non-unit.
pre-worked settlers - You start a settler working on something, (like transforming grassland to forest, anything that takes longer than a turn)
Now before he finishes, clear the command. THe turns that he spent working are "saved up" the next command you give him, (if you planned it right) will allow it to be completed in one turn. Hence the term, "pre-worked". This was more useful in 1x1x games for fortress building. In 2x1x games a fortress can be built in one turn, so it's not as critical. BUT it still has many uses. Let's suppose you're sending a settler out to convert some terrain. But barbs pop up so you hold him
near a city for a turn to clear out the barbs. He can start his task and move out later without wasting any time overall.
Sabotage proofing - is similar [to non-unit creation]. when a diplo approaches your city, open the build queue and make ready to buy the item. When the diplo sabotages production, The shields that you had will still be in the box. Buy it up. No lose of shields.
Selling improvements - Selling an improvement in anticipation of losing a city to enemy attack is allowed as long as the sale is conducted prior to the loss of the city.
Stealing Shields - Suppose you have several cities close to one another. If you have all units stationed in these cities hosted by the first of which (in establishing sequence), maybe you can save the maintainance shields for them by re-host units while processing cities. Here's a demonstration. You have 3 cities A B C, in which A is your first city. All of your units in cities B and C are hosted by A. You rush build non-military units or buildings in B and C so that at the beginning of the next turn you'll be sent to city screens of B and C. While in city screens, you re-host units inside cities to B and C, respectively. Since B and C are processed before A, you save the maintainance shields for those units. You then move units in B and C back to A and re-host them before moving back, so that you can save again the next turn. Use of this trick to produce wonders in the same turn as discovering the requisite tech is also disallowed.
Unit teleporting - During your turn, you can move a unit... then gift it to your partner. He then gives it back to you and you can move it again in the same turn. Repeat... You can have unlimited movement. Really nice when you want to move a diplo in on some city.
Unsinkable boats - its done by just moving 2 spaces [or 1 less than its available movement], press W(wait) and using the end turn keyboard shortcut. Same techinque that is used to keep missiles and planes aloft forever if you want.

6. Reference threads
Xin Yu's FoA Thread - Xin's role in the development of disallowed exploits.
A couple of thoughts - More Xin
Settings Preferences thread - rah posts up rah rules, and the origination of such rules.
RAH rules: Description and Origination of - the first thread.
RAH rules: The Continuing Evolution - the second thread
CHEATS (ver 3.0) Hosted by Ming - Ming's great big list of cheats.
Scouse Gits' Hut and Special Finder 1.3 - It's all SG(2)'s fault

.
The current setting up IP games thread - where most of the proponents of RAH rules find games, including the infamous rah himself!

Ming · January 22, 2003, 13:34

Again... thanks for the quick response.
Now I'm going to add a MING rule to this thread...

LET'S NOT SPAM THIS THREAD LIKE THE LAST ONE!

TRY to keep the discussion to the RULES

rah · January 22, 2003, 14:59

MING RULE, now I'm scared.

The only exception to the Ming rule should be the required once in every 10 days bump to keep it on the displayed page.
(at least I was discussing a rule)

RAH
Thanks again for all your work CW.

War4ever · January 22, 2003, 17:11

i may have missed this, but is the Scouse Gits hut finder program in there, i scanned very quickly and didn't see it.....damm there it is under what is allowed.......

perhaps mention that it isn't allowed in duels?

see kept it on topic, shameless +1

ColdWizard · January 22, 2003, 17:23

had we decided that? iirc only you and Ming voiced opinions on its use in duels. i'd say allow it, as long as its use doesn't slow down the game, but i don't really care either way

War4ever · January 22, 2003, 17:28

actually rah and i discussed it too and he was of the same opinion, in aduel you don't really need it , and we decided (at least i thought so) that 3 or more players only, so long as you use it during another players turn, other wise you fall into the no slow play for no reason

deity · January 22, 2003, 17:32

"pre-worked settlers - You start a settler working on something, (like transforming grassland to forest, anything that takes longer than a turn)
Now before he finishes, clear the command. THe turns that he spent working are "saved up" the next command you give him, (if you planned it right) will allow it to be completed in one turn."

This allowed?

I've never done this and would like to think anyone I played never did it either.

deity · January 22, 2003, 17:35

I've always used settlers in pairs though.

ColdWizard · January 22, 2003, 17:39

pre-worked settlers are allowed, but i've never bothered except for moving settlers away from impending barb attacks

Ming · January 22, 2003, 17:55

I've preworked settlers often. There was a large debate on the subject before, and nobody was really dead set against it... so it was deemed to be allowable... just like some of the other cheats

rah · January 22, 2003, 19:37

Quote:

Originally posted by ColdWizard

The Hut/Special Finder - don't use it during your turn!

I'll stand by this, even during a duel..... if you're fast enough to do it during the other persons turn.

RAH

And yes, preworked settlers didn't raise a stink when mentioned before. The most obvious use is for building fortresses on rivers/roads. Move next to the city with 2/3 of your movement, build instant fortress and load it with your buddies.

That's the only way I usually use it.

If people want to discuss it further, This is the place.

Alexander's Horse · January 22, 2003, 20:25

I'd like to see a set of Deity rules

I'm surprised you allow unit bribe. Gives huge advantages to a civ in democracy with happy wonders - ask makeo.

Ming · January 22, 2003, 21:00

Anybody that lets his units walk around by themselves after the discovery of writing deserves whatever happens to him. This doesn't really cause a "huge" advantage to somebody in democracy.

Alexander's Horse · January 22, 2003, 21:13

Yes it does - but you play 2x.

Which raises an interesting point - I wonder how different these rules would look if you played 1x more.

Ming · January 22, 2003, 21:16

I'm not sure of any rule that might change in 1x pro vs 2x pro...

Flatlander Fox · January 22, 2003, 21:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Anybody that lets his units walk around by themselves after the discovery of writing deserves whatever happens to him. This doesn't really cause a "huge" advantage to somebody in democracy.

As Berz taught me one night with great effectiveness.

The pre-worked setts is never a big deal to me (Mostly because I don't know how to do it effectively).

The hutfinder hasn't made any of our games longer so far, so I think people are being respectful of each other's turns.

Unless of course, you happen to pass out during yours...

P.S. The MING rule scares me...

Really it does...

War4ever · January 22, 2003, 21:35

city bribe sucks, unit bribe is fine, one should pair his troops up anyways.. thats just smart.....and if you let a warmonger get into a democracy with all those happy wonders, then you dont' deserve to win anyways

Alexander's Horse · January 22, 2003, 23:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Anybody that lets his units walk around by themselves after the discovery of writing deserves whatever happens to him.

Having to send your troops around the world like Mormons just shows how ridiculous unit bribe is.

Ming · January 23, 2003, 00:03

And why does having to send units out in twos to keep them honest ridiculous?

Alexander's Horse · January 23, 2003, 00:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
And why does having to send units out in twos to keep them honest ridiculous?

You're right of course - we all know Nelson won at Trafalgar because of the fleet that was paired up with his fleet to stop them defecting to the French

War4ever · January 23, 2003, 00:21

its just part of the game, bribing a settler requires alot of coin, its the individual units that can be quite cheap

Alexander's Horse · January 23, 2003, 00:30

I also wonder how Rah rules would evolve if you played long games. Unit bribe can get awfully tiresome over 10 sessions of a game.

Ming · January 23, 2003, 00:54

City bribes got old quick... especially after somebody walks up and bribes a city for 23 bucks, yet a unit bribe would cost 10 times more. Even long games wouldn't change the rules. Nobody really has a problem with unit bribes.

Alexander's Horse · January 23, 2003, 01:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming
Even long games wouldn't change the rules.

How would you know?

Quote:

Nobody really has a problem with unit bribes.

In your little group.

Ming · January 23, 2003, 01:30

We have played long games in the past, and it wasn't a problem. And yes... in our group, which over time, consists of MANY players. Unlike you Aussies, we have had a more diverse and larger group of people to play with

Alexander's Horse · January 23, 2003, 01:44

do not

Ming · January 23, 2003, 01:56

We've had far more people over time than you guys have had. And, our current list of active players is so much larger than your current list, it isn't even funny.

So dream on...

Alexander's Horse · January 23, 2003, 02:00

how would you know? You dream on.

War4ever · January 23, 2003, 02:03

no ones saying x2x1 games are more fun Horsie....... and we have played a ton of games in the past that went many sessions.....

i don't recall one of those games not having conflict until modern times though

Ming · January 23, 2003, 02:04

I read your threads

so dream on.

And I guess we should get back to discussing rules and not spamming this thread.