Who do you always have to destroy?

D4everman · January 15, 2001, 12:44

Which faction do you always have to fight and destroy in a game? I don't mean any you start off next to...almost any faction next to you at the get go has to be subdued or destroyed...

For me its the Hive. No brainer. I don't think anyone can get along with Yang.

After that it'd be Miriam. But she's only dangerous for a short while afterward she's a joke.

As for the SMACX factions the one that betrays me EVERY damn game is Roze. I wonder why that is?

D4

Sindai · January 15, 2001, 14:10

The drones. I have no clue why, as they're not one of the usual agressive-to-the-point-of-suicide factions, but it seems like EVERY SINGLE GAME Domai ends up hating my guts.

Myronides · January 15, 2001, 14:53

Santiago was pretty powerfull and agressive durring middle game in some games I played. She even managed to PB me once. But Yang, he's the one you can't get rid off, till you see that he is totaly distracted.
[This message has been edited by Myronides (edited January 15, 2001).]

cbn · January 15, 2001, 16:09

Lately?? Everyone!!-- No seriously-- This past weekend I played as Sven and then Domai. EVERY Other human faction with Sven and all but One when Domai declared vendetta in the first meeting. I was running no SE choices and the powergraps showed me as 3rd or 4th. The only faction that was nice at all was the consciousness but their niceness would NOT extend to trading techs-- They paid for it though as I watched without helping as the CULT mowed through them before rover rushing the cult.

So I was serious. in my last two games at least, everyone has to be destroyed since they are declaring immediate vendetta. -- I am beginning to wonder if they are programmed to be atrocity victims or something

niteowl · January 15, 2001, 20:33

I always make it my goal to take out Yang & Miriam. Whether they are near me or not, they are always a pain in the butt at some point during the game. So my motto is *Seek out and destroy* before they get too powerful.

Although I have been known to conquer every faction on my way to becoming *Supreme ruler*

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"My dear girl don't flatter yourself.
What I did this evening was for king and
country. You don't think it gave me any
pleasure do you?

--- James Bond

Skanderbeg · January 17, 2001, 06:16

Miriam and Yang? No, sometimes they will be in war with me, but sometimes we can work together.

The ones I always have to destroy are the probe-loving moneybags: Morgan and Roze!
Witz Roze I agree very much with You, D4. There's only one thing that will stop her betraying You, and that is a nice little singularity PB!

And of course the Aliens have always to be destroyed.
[This message has been edited by Skanderbeg (edited January 17, 2001).]

Martin Schmidt · January 17, 2001, 08:54

To me Miriam is the first i want to have out of the game in general , because i will never take fundamentalism and for that reason sooner or later i will be in a war with her , so i choose sooner before she gets too annoying . Some people here think similar about Yang . I think he is the strongest fraction played by the comp , but sometimes i was able too cooperate (even ally) with him .

Lord Maxwell · January 17, 2001, 12:21

The faction that is most like the one I am playing gets killed first. If I run UoP I take out Morgan and Consciousness ASAP. (Taking out consciousness is kinda worthless, as the AI doesn't expand with her even when alone on a continent.)

If I play Yang I kill drones, sparta and believers in that order. The others can be left alone, or bent to my will as fits the situation.

Blake · January 18, 2001, 00:18

I'm not sure why everyone hates miriam, for a start she is reasonably loyal, better than Lal. She also respects strength to some degree, if your quite a bit stronger than her she actually calms down and will almost never declare vendetta, even if you run Democracy.

But the main reason Miriam doesn't worry me is because she is so weak (first 80 turns excluded), getting cent eco during the first 100 years is a 50/50 proposal for Miriam's retarted scientists (and diplomats, heheh). Best example was once I played Gaians, had completed my second pop-boom and optimised much of my terraforming, grab the empath guild and chat to Miriam, she demands tech, I refuse. So she surrenders.

She had two land bases and two sea bases, almost completely isolated (I don't think anyone had met Miriam even). No formers left her with the choice of flat/arid, fungus or ocean (what a choice). It's the only time I've seen a faction surrender without anyone attacking them.

Sarxis · January 18, 2001, 05:42

Miriam- what is she a good for? Absolutely nothin'. She doesn't make a good ally on account of her poor research, which means no tech trading beyond the intial advances. Even if I ever did get along with her, I would still wipe her out just because of the fact that she really can never give anything of value, and her attack bonus makes her a constant danger.

And there have been games when Yang and I get along just fine, but not many.

Skanderbeg · January 18, 2001, 06:08

quote:

Originally posted by Blake on 01-17-2001 11:18 PM
It's the only time I've seen a faction surrender without anyone attacking them.

In some rare cases, other factions seem to wish to surrender, even if there is no need for them. I have some similar experience:
I had a treaty with Morgan (we had no war before, but I had formerly threatend him to give me one of his bases), when one of his probe teams approached to my base nex to Morgan territory. I didn't care about it, because I had the HSA. And then, instead of trying to probe me, Morgan contacted me and offered surrender.

Transcend · January 18, 2001, 12:03

I will destroy every faction except Zak and Aki.

senatus · January 18, 2001, 14:08

quote:

Originally posted by Anunikoba on 01-18-2001 04:42 AM
Miriam- what is she a good for? Absolutely nothin'. She doesn't make a good ally on account of her poor research, which means no tech trading beyond the intial

I've found that with Miriam as a submissive early in
the game (I was Sparta), I could trade techs to
other factions with her as a proxy. I.e. if Lal had
something I wanted, he wouldn't trade with me - but
he would trade with Miriam, and Miriam would give it
to me.

Other than that, Miriam makes a reasonable trade
(commerce) partner. Plus, I often like giving bases
to her in enemy territory that I don't want - she
can hold her own with the units present, and can't
be bribed by the AI due to her high probe rating.

DilithiumDad · January 18, 2001, 14:28

Mybe it would be better the rank the factions according to how easily they surrender.

1. Morgan --gives up easily unless he has strong allies. My favorite submissive because you get lots of commerce and can shake him down for credits. I just sell him all my techs (after a shakedown, of course) so he has no motive to probe me.
2. Lal --also gives up easily and often resembles Morgan because he loves to run Free Market.
3. Zak --medium easy to surrender --usually has 3-4 bases left on huge map
4. Miriam --she won't quit until she is down to 1 or 2 bases, but reliably surrenders then. OK commerce, pretty loyal.
5. Deirdre --great bonusus and loyalty if she surrenders, she is kind of perverse about surrendering --if you are overwhelmingly powerful she will hold out even with a single undefended base, but if you are only marginally the top dog faction, she will roll over if you are running Green.
6. Yang --he is a realist and will give up before being eliminated, but commerce with him is lousy with is -2 economy.
7. Santiago --what can I say. She's a fanatic and never gives up.

5.

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Creator of the Ultimate Builder Map, based on the Huge Map of Planet

tyler666 · January 20, 2001, 11:45

OK who do u always kill well I always ethier make yang surrender in the early game or I complety conquer him in mid game (TIP:NEVER,EVER,EVER LET YANG SURVIVE INTO THE LATE GAME THE HIVE LOVES NUKES AND WILL SURELY USE THEM)As far as miram goes you gotta kick her ass early shes a great submissive but dont give her any techs or bases if she gets strong she will stab you in the back unless your running fundy wich is insane before knowledge dedrie unless green will destroy you with worm army and morgan is a backstabber but his army is never a real threat and lal is a backstabbing control freak unless your dee kick his ass

Wiglaf · January 20, 2001, 12:35

quote:

Originally posted by tyler666 on 01-20-2001 10:45 AM
OK who do u always kill well I always ethier make yang surrender in the early game or I complety conquer him in mid game (TIP:NEVER,EVER,EVER LET YANG SURVIVE INTO THE LATE GAME THE HIVE LOVES NUKES AND WILL SURELY USE THEM)As far as miram goes you gotta kick her ass early shes a great submissive but dont give her any techs or bases if she gets strong she will stab you in the back unless your running fundy wich is insane before knowledge dedrie unless green will destroy you with worm army and morgan is a backstabber but his army is never a real threat and lal is a backstabbing control freak unless your dee kick his ass

Vel? Put this in your strat guide. Better yet, tyler, make your own strat guide - "666's Award Winning Book of SMAC Ass Kicking."

mark13 · January 21, 2001, 01:03

ROTFL, SMACed...

Now, now - let's not take the pi$$....

tyler666 · January 21, 2001, 16:34

Dude I use the words "kick" and "ass" a lot but ant way I forgot to tell you spartans are ussaly pretty loyal and because they got a "kick ass" army early on they can be bicthing allies just dont piss them off early and also zak is very loyal so dont "kick his ass" anyway thats about it.

Tyler Messer
"For you must kick ass"

Wiglaf · January 21, 2001, 16:52

quote:

Originally posted by tyler666 on 01-21-2001 03:34 PM
Dude I use the words "kick" and "ass" a lot but ant way I forgot to tell you spartans are ussaly pretty loyal and because they got a "kick ass" army early on they can be bicthing allies just dont piss them off early and also zak is very loyal so dont "kick his ass" anyway thats about it.

Tyler Messer
"For you must kick ass"

Spartans: Kick Ass army, *****ing allies
Zak: Loyal, don't kick his ass
Miriam: Kick her ass.
Lal: Unless dee kick his ass.
Yang: Kill him.
Morgan: Backstabber.
Dee: Will kill you with worms.

I bet everyone who put the days, weeks, and months into working on the factions at Firaxis is just banging their heads into a desk right now

.

Hydro · January 22, 2001, 22:34

DD,

Be careful about a submissive Morgan (or other AI) if you give/sell him all your tech: he is likely to sell your tech to the AIs unless you make him go to war against them. This happened to me once when he obviously sold Orbital Spaceflight and I have never given a submissive AI my entire tech since - it is just too dangerous.

Santiago is strange. Occasionally she will roll over like a puppy for no apparent reason if you are very powerful and she has no allies (even is she is relatively powerful, like #3 or 4). I've had her surrender a couple of times without ever taking a single Spartan base.

DilithiumDad · January 23, 2001, 01:41

Morgan good, like bread.
Miriam bad.
Santiago very bad.
Yang bad, like fire.
Deidre good!

DilithiumDad · January 25, 2001, 01:08

I never do "offer all tech" with submissive Morgan. I do demand that they have Vendetta with my enemies to keep them from sharing tech with them and giving commerce income to my enemy. What I do is when I see Morgan sending probe teams against me, I call him up just before the probe arrives and give him the tech he asks for when I offer him a free tech. The probe then automatically turns around and goes home!

uptons · January 29, 2001, 18:45

I love playing Brother Lal, and subjugating other factions to my rule until I stand before my arch-enemy Yang. Then it's time to get myself elected Supreme Leader (become what my U.N. faction was always meant to be) and get ready for a heavy showdown with him and his allies, if any.

Before that, it's fun to keep your allies from snapping at each other. If you have subjugated one faction that has since then repaired itself and risen to fight somebody you're at peace with, I like to put my Peacekeepers on the borders of my ally and hinder the treaty faction from attacking, real world style

.

DogberryMan · January 29, 2001, 20:30

Believe it or not, I find that Lal is one of the worst backstabbers in the game. I always have to destroy him, even if I play as a “neutral” faction and run democracy and such. Of course there are Yang and Miriam and the Spartans who you usually have to take out, but I don’t hate them as much because they never pretend to be my friends in the first place. Lal is a dirty little traitor.

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"Are you good men and true?" Much Ado About Nothing, Act III, Scene III

Skanderbeg · January 30, 2001, 05:43

quote:

Originally posted by DogberryMan on 01-29-2001 07:30 PM
Believe it or not, I find that Lal is one of the worst backstabbers in the game.
Lal is a dirty little traitor.

I agree! He talks about peace and democracy, but trust him and turn, and You'll find a knife in Your back!

"Steelborn, Starborn"

Blake · January 30, 2001, 23:31

It seems Lal acts as if he has the Ai personality (in scenerio editor) "Gang up on human player" option ticked. He always seems to get the rest of the world to gang up on you, and he favours allying to Yang and Miriam even if you are a democracy. He's a creep and I get great satisfaction from planet busting him.

I quite like the good chairman, if only because I'm fond of playing the Hive. Aki is very dangerous, she is a stable ally but does not pact easily, and she hates to share her tech. Often the only way to get her tech is to take it by force. If you let Aki develop in peace she becomes a true power. Zak is a much better ally, as he likes to trade (and is easier to probe)

The factions I gotta destroy are Sven, because the jerk builds sea bases that stuff up my gas'n'drown (then raise land like crazy) strategies and the prat Cha Dawn who is just too damn agressive. And ofcourse Lal, I wouldn't wish my troops to have to enter PK territory, hence the planet busters.