In the beginning: How many settlers? - Page 2

DrSpike · January 27, 2003, 07:00

/me takes a bow.

If you meant the pic though, that was SCG. But as I said before, never let merit stand in the way of credit.

SCG · January 27, 2003, 20:15

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
* DrSpike takes a bow.

*SCG pays off the Marionettes artist*

yep, thats me - the guy behind the scenes

War4ever · January 27, 2003, 20:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
That simply put is the whole trick - your capital whilst your only city is immune to disbanding - so high food, high shield foundings can pump out a 'free' settler when you have a bit of cash for rushing and the right techs to provide the steps - the second free settler is a great rarity - would normally only be seen at 2X production.

SG[1]

actually i was referring to SP Scouse Gits...all you need is 150G and BW, HR or WC for this to work

in x2 production its even easier.....but i generally don't bother unless i have 100g from the first hut....b/c 50g is better spent getting those units on the board if i know where a hut is...especially if i get horse

rah · January 28, 2003, 09:44

Yes maybe two settlers if you find some money, a non-unit from a hut to explore and using your second non-settler (if you have one) to build a road to a close location so you don't have to support that first settler popped for more time than it takes to rush the second one.

Scouse Gits · January 28, 2003, 10:42

Sorry SCG

SG[1]

War4ever · January 28, 2003, 21:29

you can time two sets and a warrior if you do it correctly

been there done that too many times...and i have found that if i get 50 g i will likely get the HR or BW and then more cash so i always use the second set for roading to move the sets along, then either use it for the fourth city or just keep it roading along the way

rah · January 29, 2003, 15:09

Yep, in 2x prod, it's harder to get two out unless you start on a gold or iron. And there are those people that will send a hut found unit back to the cap to speed up the process by disbanding. Buy up through the second rack, then disband.

Rich

War4ever · January 29, 2003, 17:03

of course all my comments here unless otherwise stated are regarding x1 production Rah.....

in x2 if you build on iron you can easily build a set out of your first city.... in fact you should be able to easily build two...
i remember when i would pump out as many warriors from that iron as possible until i was down to 5 shields and then pump a set..times have changed

Scouse Gits · January 30, 2003, 04:00

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
Yep, in 2x prod, it's harder to get two out unless you start on a gold or iron. And there are those people that will send a hut found unit back to the cap to speed up the process by disbanding. Buy up through the second rack, then disband.

Rich

Iron - I understand, but Gold? - Please explain.

SG[1]

rah · January 30, 2003, 09:45

While it's easier to do it built on iron because of the production, in 2x, it still 21 turns to grow the city. If you build on gold, 21 turns your cap can produce over 100 gold (depending on the other square you're working). Which can be used to buy up. Less is needed from huts. And you'll be darn close to monarchy if not there already.

RAH

War4ever · February 3, 2003, 21:37

Ah the gold cap.....makes it toooooo easy

Scouse Gits · February 4, 2003, 06:01

Thanks Rah - never played 2x

SG[1]

rah · February 4, 2003, 10:55

Gold isn't bad to build on in 1x either.

War4ever · February 4, 2003, 12:44

yes but before monarchy its kinda slow

DrSpike · February 4, 2003, 12:48

Agreed, it's more of a 2x strat.

rah · February 4, 2003, 15:16

Why? 2x,1x it doesn't matter. You still get the same food. 1.

DrSpike · February 4, 2003, 15:19

What about the other squares in your city?

rah · February 4, 2003, 16:06

What difference does that make if you build on the gold?

The second square is going to be the same regardless.

Now if you're not building on the gold itself then I see a difference.

DrSpike · February 4, 2003, 18:59

You've lost me there. If you build on the gold in 2x your one worker yields enough food for the city to grow ok. In 1x building on gold slows you down a lot, at least until Monarchy.

War4ever · February 5, 2003, 01:57

agreed...in x2 the food increase is what makes it acceptable , 10 turns for all that trade and defence, one word...YES....

x1 its too slow to build on gold

rah · February 5, 2003, 09:41

But, in 1x, it's a lot harder to expand until you get out of despotism. Building on gold will get you out of it a lot faster. I'm assuming deity, so your second settler can find a food special. The extra turns in monarchy will make up the initial difference quite quickly.

RAH

DrSpike · February 5, 2003, 10:13

Ok, fair enough, though I wouldn't often choose to play that way in 1x.

I still don't understand your other post, particularly why

"The second square is going to be the same regardless (presumably of whether it is 1x or 2x, since that is what we were discussing)."

The reasonable point you just made seems to be a different angle than the one you were going for before.

rah · February 5, 2003, 11:10

I was pointing out that there is no difference between 1x and 2x since you get the same food from the gold if you build on it, because I thought you guys were talking about building next to the gold. Once that confusion was removed, I was just stating why I would build on the gold. Trade.

War4ever · February 5, 2003, 12:49

its still slooooooow growth , and the road to monarchy is fine if you don't get screwed by huts, but in x1 the amount of trade is far less....so really its a huge trade off..

i only build on gold in x1 if i am looking to bottleneck , or choke an area off i am worried about, otherwise i build on flatter terrain

DrSpike · February 5, 2003, 12:52

Spot on War........whether it is viable or not IMO it is definitely a bigger sacrifice in 1x than 2x.

War4ever · February 5, 2003, 12:58

i would have no problem doing it with my other cities, but not the first 5 or so in x1.....i am looking for production and growth from those cities for the most part.....the only way you take slow growth is for iron or gold, and then you churn units out to accompany you settler factories

rah · February 5, 2003, 14:33

As I said, if you pick gold for the cap, your second city must be a settler factory. But in 1x, every beaker is more precious which is why I'll do the tradeoff on the cap. (If you get off the path, you will whether you build on gold or not. But if you do, the gold will help you back quicker.) Give me 8 extra turns in monarchy and that will make up for the one less settler I kick out of the cap. In the early mid game you can always use a settler to get it up to size three in order to celebrate. With gold, a harbor and some water, the celebrating is easier.

War4ever · February 5, 2003, 17:03

i agree with that, but generally i am looking for a 4 special pattern in SP mode which i why i wander so long so i doubt i would then go and build on the gold, instead i would use it later in the game.... but i understand where your coming from

rah · February 5, 2003, 19:21

Yes, I've been spoiled by 2x that I don't think about the advantages of 4 spec pattern in 1x like I should. My initial thought is usually, Great a 4 spec pattern, that's two cities.

But on the opening in a 1x game, fast to monarchy is still the goal, so if I saw a gold, I'd plop right down and hope two of the other three specials in the pattern was a food and production special for my settler factory. Figuring that If i'm in the special band, there's a good probability that there is a four special pattern just east or west that I can expand to as quickly as possible.

War4ever · February 5, 2003, 23:11

yes the opening is always at least two cities in x2 with that many "good" specials...generally though i will build the first one in the middle to use all four later and have four flanking positions beside the other specials..this is a lethal trick if there is lots of forest

and you protect your specials without having to build on them and ruin your Capital