Substitute units

Optimizer · January 24, 2003, 09:43

This might have been brought up before...

Some of the units which require a strategic resource should be available in a substitute version, not requiring the resource, but with some kind of drawback.

Iron units' substitutes should be weaker, since they would use copper, bone or whatever they'd get.

Saltpeter units' substitutes should simply cost more, since saltpeter can be extracted from manure with some work.

Oil units' substitutes should require Coal, be slower and cost more. You can make liquid fuel from coal, but you'd rather use oil.

Rubber units' substitutes should require Oil and be a little weaker. You can make synthetic rubber, but the real thing is stronger.

Aluminum units' substitutes should be slower or have shorter operational range.

Uranium units, well - no uranium, no nukes...

I don't know how to make mounted units without horses, but late mounted units should maybe not require horses because one can assume horses to be spread across the world by that time.

Amesjustin · January 24, 2003, 11:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimizer
I don't know how to make mounted units without horses, but late mounted units should maybe not require horses because one can assume horses to be spread across the world by that time.

Camels, my friend. Camels.

Samiel · January 24, 2003, 11:48

Not wrong idea Optimizer, but you must creat for every Resource an extra unit. It's a bit diffikulty mmh so many work argh!!

P.S. look at my thread i have some Buildins pictures paste.
if you want.

Optimizer · January 24, 2003, 11:57

Camels would be cool, but I don't think camels are easier to find than horses.

Creating more units is OK for me. I'd just use the same animations.

Samiel · January 24, 2003, 12:03

Jets with iron are lower as with alluminium.
Nukes need uranium AND Wasserstoff AND Oxygen!
Oxygen is normally overall but you must invent Pressluftverfahren(sorry this i didn't know). And Wasserstoff must find in a ressore that called Wasserstoffdestilierer.

Optimizer · January 24, 2003, 12:09

Wasserstoff = hydrogen = väte

Pressluftverfahren = air compression
Wasserstoffdestiliere = hydrogen distiller

Why should the hydrogen distiller be a resource? Can't you build it anywhere?

Anyway, I agree that building nukes should be more complicated.

Amesjustin · January 24, 2003, 12:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimizer
Camels would be cool, but I don't think camels are easier to find than horses..

You're right, they would be harder, unless you are in the middle of a vast desert where there are plenty of horses with no camels.

I also use a copper resource to coincide with Iron - similar but different units in the same time period

Samiel · January 24, 2003, 12:13

with hydrogendestiller mean i a symbol for Hydrogen as a recoures.Hooply you understand me. or what is with Deuterium (heavy water)(orginally for atomiccrafts)

Samiel · January 24, 2003, 12:22

I use wood to build arrows(Bogenschützen) and warriors(because the wood axe)
i use stone to build stonebuildings how Pyramid, walls etc. ,too.

How like you my Worldtradecenter???

Optimizer · January 24, 2003, 12:23

Deuterium (heavy hydrogen) replaces regular hydrogen in all compounds, so it is usually extracted from sea water. No problem to find enough of it.

Samiel · January 24, 2003, 12:44

Deuterium is NOT heavy hydrogen it is H(2 1)O .Know you Isotops(Science!). what is with Alkans(you know methan, Ethan...) to build Heizkraftwerk? And Triterium is H(3 1)O bla bla bla bla ....
..bla bla and this is the end of my tomic presentations. Now i explin the temporal 4d Diemensions from the Feuerbachfreis bla bal......

Optimizer · January 24, 2003, 13:21

Deuterium and heavy hydrogen are the same.

Please see this link.

What have methane and ethane got to do with it?

Azeem · January 24, 2003, 13:28

Samiel, your World Trade Center picture looks good.

As for substitute units you could have bronze "Axemen" (like in AoE) substitute Swordsmen (who need Iron). Hmm... And how about Crossbowmen act as a substitute for Musketmen?

Clay · January 24, 2003, 18:20

Perhaps you could add a 'Refining' technology for various metals and tie stronger units to that tech.
For instance Iron can be found in some places at the surface and was used (pre refining) to make swords and other weapons. These were weak and often brittle though due to impurities in the metal. Refined Iron would make stronger swords for better attacking units.

Samiel · January 25, 2003, 06:26

Sorry opitmizer. You say the true. Clay good Idea from you, you create an extra refining iron recoures. But you must create extra unit for the same.
Azeem have you create a bronze recoures? or any images from bronze for me then i can create this.
And Azzem i working an the Berliner Fernsehturm, too.
Have you ideas for another Wounders?

Centauri18 · January 25, 2003, 06:45

Check in my 'Small Wonders Ideas' thread.

Samiel · January 25, 2003, 08:56

check my thread some ideas for government and technologies and check my thread on
http://www.civ2-forum.gamigo.de/foru...?s=&forumid=15

mrboo123 · January 25, 2003, 09:46

Quote:

Originally posted by Samiel
How like you my Worldtradecenter???

I like it alot!

Samiel · January 25, 2003, 09:49

123john321 look at my pictures on my German Thread. There are 2 more.

arslankhan · January 25, 2003, 11:32

Copper! Funny I never noticed there isnt any copper in the game. Dont you need copper to make bronze?

Samiel · January 25, 2003, 11:52

Quote:

Copper! Funny I never noticed there isnt any copper in the game. Dont you need copper to make bronze?

Yes, to make bronze with iron and cooper.
how like you my idea with stone and wood?

Optimizer · January 25, 2003, 16:40

Quote:

Originally posted by arslankhan
Copper! Funny I never noticed there isnt any copper in the game. Dont you need copper to make bronze?

Yes, bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Tin is the rarest of these, so it should be more critical than iron. The reason why iron is a strategic resource, but not copper or tin, seems to be game balance. If tin was needed to build spearmen, you would need a road network early in the game to survive.

Iron should be more common to reflect realism and help small civs.

arslankhan · January 25, 2003, 23:34

I kind of like the idea of having to find copper and tin deposits in order to enter a Bronze Age with corresponding BA units. Iron Age would be easy, just find some iron. In the later industrial ages, copper and tin would become important resources again. Its all good but it just means more work for the programmers so it probably aint happenin' unfortunately.
Samiel, your wood and stone idea makes sense as well.

Samiel · January 26, 2003, 05:07

What is ist to use teer(as extra recoures) to build Streets and motorways(or Highways or Autobahnen). Or silizium to produce Computers in the Modern Age. Or Water as extrem important Resources? Tht is realism.

Optimizer · January 26, 2003, 08:55

Strategic resources are only straegic if they are hard to find. Silicon is extracted from stone, so silicon mines are not very politically important.

Samiel · January 26, 2003, 10:39

Yes, yes optimizer, now i know why you call Optimizer(Besserwisser). Go you to any university? or are you a chemic, physik or somthing else Professor? What is whit Thermal force or Textiles or Beton or Salt or paper(or cellulose) or Fullerene or Diamants as Hightch resources or porzelan or cotton or ........
P.S.
Zu welcher Zeit bist du immer so im Netz?

MoonWolf · January 27, 2003, 10:24

I like the substitute idea! I've also been thinking of adding more required resources to industrial and modern units, like you need iron to build tanks and ships (they are build of steel and I think steel is a product of iron and CO2)

Ozymandias · January 28, 2003, 04:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimizer

Iron should be more common to reflect realism and help small civs.

I question the need for iron resources early on -- in medieval Europe, most iron sources were local and alluvial and would be too insignificant to be represented on the Civ map. It wasn't until the 15th century that extraction technology, capital accumulation, and higher quality combined to make deposits like those in northern Sweden so important.

-Oz

Ozymandias · January 28, 2003, 04:09

Quote:

Originally posted by Optimizer

Yes, bronze is an alloy of copper and tin. Tin is the rarest of these, so it should be more critical than iron. The reason why iron is a strategic resource, but not copper or tin, seems to be game balance. If tin was needed to build spearmen, you would need a road network early in the game to survive.

MesoAmericans and Polynesians did quite well with weapons made from obsidian, sharks' teeth, etc ...

-Oz

Optimizer · January 28, 2003, 05:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Ozymandias
I question the need for iron resources early on -- in medieval Europe, most iron sources were local and alluvial and would be too insignificant to be represented on the Civ map. It wasn't until the 15th century that extraction technology, capital accumulation, and higher quality combined to make deposits like those in northern Sweden so important.
-Oz

Resources like Iron should maybe become more common after a certain tech, like Metallurgy.