"God's might and Mohammed's ..."

Sheik · January 27, 2003, 18:12

I need to know who said:

"God's might and Mohammed's miracles are my companions."

anyone know?

Nubclear · January 27, 2003, 18:13

Google is your friend.

KrazyHorse · January 27, 2003, 18:15

www.google.com

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/14094

Quote:

The Ottoman Empire also dominated the Muslim world. To bolster their claims to leadership of Islam, the Ottomans claimed that, in 1517, Sultan Selim I was handed the custody of the Muslim holy places of Mecca and Medina by the last Abbasid caliph. However dubious the veracity of this story, millions of Muslims throughout the Middle East and elsewhere then recognized the sultan as caliph, the prophet's temporal and spiritual successor. Sultan Süleyman the Magnificent—who expanded the empire's boundaries to their broadest extent— declared:

I am head of Muhammad's community. God's might and Muhammad's miracles are my companions. I am Süleyman, in whose name the hutbe (sermon) is read in Mecca and Medina. In Baghdad I am the Shah, in Byzantine realms the Caesar, and in Egypt the sultan.

KrazyHorse · January 27, 2003, 18:16

It helps to avoid using words which are often spelled differently when googling a quote. (Note the Muhammad)

Gangerolf · January 27, 2003, 18:16

Suleiman the magnificent

Gangerolf · January 27, 2003, 18:18

bleh

Sonic · January 27, 2003, 18:19

Didn't he said "Allah's might and Mohammed's miracles are my companions."

Gangerolf · January 27, 2003, 18:26

God=Allah
Allah=God

Sonic · January 27, 2003, 18:59

Gangerwolf, no.
God - Christian
Allah - Muslim

mrboo123 · January 27, 2003, 19:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Sonic
Gangerwolf, no.
God - Christian
Allah - Muslim

No,

Allah:Musim::God:Engsil

molly bloom · January 27, 2003, 19:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Sonic
Gangerwolf, no.
God - Christian
Allah - Muslim

Not quite. In Christian Malta, where a Semitic language is spoken, Allah is also the word for God. Christian Arabs also exist, of course....

Gangerolf · January 27, 2003, 19:14

Allah means God. It's the same guy

Az · January 27, 2003, 19:20

One dude? hebrew tells us about "Gods" . A weird fellow , huh?

Sonic · January 27, 2003, 19:34

Well, in Lithuanian word "Dievas" means Christian god and word "Alachas" means muslim god...
If God and Allah is the same, then are Roman, Egyptian, Celtic, etc. gods are also the same as God and Allah? If so, then they are actually also one person...

Gangerolf · January 27, 2003, 19:38

I thought the Christian, Muslim and Jewish god was the same guy. Just different ways of worshiping him.

Az · January 27, 2003, 19:43

You're right, Gangerolf.

Sonic: those are polytheistic gods. They're not the only god, but the leader of a clan of dieties.They can be recognized easily by a strong mythology surrounding them.

The only monotheistic religion having anything similar to mythology is judaism, and christianity has the strongest polytheistic features, (Trinity). Islam doesn't have those, but it's nothing suprising. Muhammad built it's god as a refinement of the hebrew monotheistic god.

Ramo · January 27, 2003, 19:50

God is English, Allah is Arabic.

KrazyHorse · January 27, 2003, 19:51

Quote:

God is English

"And did those feet..."

Ramo · January 27, 2003, 19:55

I think that explains why Jesus is pasty white.

KrazyHorse · January 27, 2003, 20:00

It was just too good to pass up.

cavebear · January 27, 2003, 20:07

Actually, the Allah, God, Yaweh question sparks some interesting debate in atheist circles.

1. Some take the "they are all the same" view. Others (myself included) note that there have been an awful lot of people killed by religious adherents who seem very convinced that there are clear differences among the three.

2. I also note that many people use the word "Allah" when writing in English (and certainly not referring to the Christian God), so there seems to be a difference in those peoples' thoughts among the deities.

3. English makes this question difficult by using the same word as the title of the Christian deity ("God") and the generic word ("god") for non-Christian (not just Judaic and Moslem, but ancient and modern polytheistic deities) . For example, does Arabic use "allah" as a generic word to describe Odin or Vishnu?

Ramo · January 27, 2003, 20:22

Allah is a compound word of "the" and "God," IIRC. So it would only be used in monotheistic contexts (you wouldn't be calling Odin or Vishnu Allah). An Arab would call Odin a "lah" or something like that.

As for whether they're the same deity, it depends entirely on what you mean. It seems like a silly question to me. They're all monotheistic, they inherit the same mythology, and of course there are divergences. Just like there might be divergences between a Catholic and a Protestant's idea of God.

chequita guevara · January 27, 2003, 22:39

Since both the Torah and the New Testament are Holy Books in Islam, it is obvious to those with at least half a brain the YHWH of the Jews, God of the Christians, and Allah of the Muslims represents the same invisibile friend. Hell, if you even want to go further, they are all modifications of the Sumerian god, El, whom the Martuu adopted as their patron deity. Abrahm was a Martuu before he left Sumer for Canan to found a great nation.

Moslems continue to refer to God as Allah in other languages because Arabic is a holy language, so they always use Arabic to refer to God.

Plan Austral · January 27, 2003, 22:58

I another forum someone said that the muslims consider themselves the true people of Abraham, they say that our bible was corrupted to make it look like if God prefered Isaac over Ismael, they consider themselves the sons of Ismael.

JHWY, ALLAH and the god father of christianity (the father, not Jesus and the Holy spirit) would be like identified as the same being.

cavebear · January 27, 2003, 23:12

Quote:

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Since both the Torah and the New Testament are Holy Books in Islam, it is obvious to those with at least half a brain the YHWH of the Jews, God of the Christians, and Allah of the Muslims represents the same invisibile friend. Hell, if you even want to go further, they are all modifications of the Sumerian god, El, whom the Martuu adopted as their patron deity. Abrahm was a Martuu before he left Sumer for Canan to found a great nation.

Having *at least* half a brain (I took it out and weighed it on the bathroom scale. It's 3/4, minimum, so there!)

I can respond to that .

The Koran (any way you want to spell it) is not considered part of the Judeo-Christian beliefs (as the New Testament is not part of the Judaic beliefs), so they are not the same.

You ignore, for example the Mithraists who also had significant input in to the Judeo/Christian/Moslem traditions. And there are others. How many sepratist religions do you want to ignore in your quest for similiarities?

Besides, you never addressed the issues I mentioned in my post.

Moslems continue to refer to God as Allah in other languages because Arabic is a holy language, so they always use Arabic to refer to God. [/QUOTE]

chequita guevara · January 28, 2003, 02:30

Quote:

Originally posted by cavebear
1. Some take the "they are all the same" view. Others (myself included) note that there have been an awful lot of people killed by religious adherents who seem very convinced that there are clear differences among the three.

Christians and Moslems are quite good at killing other members of their own religions over doctrinal differences, so it should come as no suprise that different religions worshipping the same god would be even more likely to kill each other. Islam is quite clear on the matter, however. Jews and Christians also worship Allah, and therefore may not be forced to convert to Islam. Christianity claims to worship the Jewish God, and since Islam sees Jesus as a prophet of God, it's easily clear that they are all talking about the same imaginary being.

Quote:

I also note that many people use the word "Allah" when writing in English (and certainly not referring to the Christian God), so there seems to be a difference in those peoples' thoughts among the deities.

Even though you rolled your eyes, the actual answer is that God is properly spoken of in the holy language of Arabic (the language of the Prophet Mohammed).

Quote:

3. English makes this question difficult by using the same word as the title of the Christian deity ("God") and the generic word ("god") for non-Christian (not just Judaic and Moslem, but ancient and modern polytheistic deities) . For example, does Arabic use "allah" as a generic word to describe Odin or Vishnu?

Ramo answered this.

Mithraism did not have a significant impact on the Judaic religions. You're thinking of Zorastrianism, which the Jews encountered during their exile in Babylon. Mithraism was the other montheistic religion which was gaining converts during Christianity's rise, but because it failed to let women be members it lost out.

Quote:

The Koran (any way you want to spell it) is not considered part of the Judeo-Christian beliefs (as the New Testament is not part of the Judaic beliefs), so they are not the same.

This is irrelevent. No Jew would say Christians don't worship the same God. Jews just don't accept Jesus as the Messiah. The same is true for Islam.

Quote:

How many sepratist religions do you want to ignore in your quest for similiarities?

The only other religion of which I know that worships the same diety is Bahai'ism, which is an outgrowth of Islam.

Ben Kenobi · January 28, 2003, 19:24

christianity has the strongest polytheistic features, (Trinity).

Azazel, this is not quite right.

Christians believe in a tri-une God, ie, one God with three persons called the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Che,

Quote:

Christianity claims to worship the Jewish God, and since Islam sees Jesus as a prophet of God, it's easily clear that they are all talking about the same imaginary being.

Christians do say that they are ingrafted in the root of the tree of life, in the place where only the Jews resided originally. The salvation promised to the Jews, through Jesus was extended to the Gentiles. Same God, same promise, just different people.

Moslems say that Mohammed was the prophet of Allah, but also insist upon the common inheritance of the people of Israel, in tracing ancestry back to Abraham through Ishmael instead of Isaac.

The main difference between the three can be summed in one question, who is the person of Jesus? Christians say he is the Son of God, Muslims call him a prophet of God, on a level of the OT prophets, while I don't know what Jews make of Jesus now. Do Jews consider Jesus as a prophet?

Quote:

The only other religion of which I know that worships the same diety is Bahai'ism, which is an outgrowth of Islam.

Well, this is troublesome. Bahai's do not claim a descendent from Abraham, as the 'People of the Book' do. Bah'ai's are not outgrowths of Islam, but rather try to combine elements of Hinduism, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, etc, saying that they are all the same God.

chequita guevara · January 28, 2003, 21:31

Quote:

Originally posted by obiwan18
Do Jews consider Jesus as a prophet?

He's considered a rabbi.