View Poll Results: ...
Archaic 8 38.10%
Pandemoniak 13 61.90%
Write-in 0 0%
Abstain 0 0%
Voters: 21. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Thread Tools
Old February 3, 2003, 02:48   #61
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:15
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
Well I haven't read any of the previous discussion, but I don't see why those statements would be necessarily wrong. At least as long as you add "from a certain perspective to them". For example, to make the Planet example a bit more terran, you could say "Our surroundings most probably determine human civilization" to indicate that the climate, the plant- and animallife have a tremendous influence on the culture & values of the people living in that place. The Egyptian civilization being determined by the Nile and desert for example. The native Americans giving great value to the animals surrounding them. The western view on nature being determined by the great technological power we can use on it. But you could just as well say "Human civilization most probably determines our surroundings or how we see them". Different perspectives but each with some truth in it.
The difference between what we are talking about and what you are talking about is that the example you gave is not actually a contradiction. It is entirely possible for one thing to shape something else and for that thing to shape the other in turn. OTOH, I hope you can can agree that saying the 'A is true' and then 'A is false' in the same statement *IS* a contradiction, regardless of what context you may put it in Note I said context, not qualifiers; if you say 'A is true when B is present', and 'A is false when B is absent', that's not a contradiction).
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old February 3, 2003, 15:02   #62
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:15
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Well yes I admit I gave a lousy example.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old February 4, 2003, 06:57   #63
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:15
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
I just thought of a better example!
Suppose some libertarian is murdering some Marxist and I am watching doing nothing. You could just as well say:
"I did not murder the Marxist." because it wasn't me personally who strangled him.
"I murdered the Marxist." because I stood by, doing nothing to prevent it.
What do you think? Is it all right?

I still haven't read the thread though, so I don't know if this example has any relevance or similarity to that Planet issue...
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old February 4, 2003, 06:59   #64
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:15
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
No, it doesn't really have any relevance; whether or not you were responsible for the death depends upon your point of view. David Floyd, for example, would sya you did not, because you were under no obligation to interfere, especially when this mighr endanger your own life; Azazel or (perhaps) Drogue might argue that you were, because you allowed it to happen.
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old February 4, 2003, 07:11   #65
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:15
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
Originally posted by GeneralTacticus
depends upon your point of view.
Well that's for a large part the point I was trying to make.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old February 4, 2003, 07:13   #66
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:15
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
I'm saying that, in that instance, which of the two option you pick depends on your point of view; you can't logically hold both views at the same time.
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old February 4, 2003, 17:58   #67
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:15
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
I'm not sure I understand you. Are you trying to say that I for instance couldn't at the same time hold David Floyd's and Azazel's view??
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team