Smac Dg Pbem

Archaic · January 28, 2003, 08:29

Players:

Archaic - University
Cedayon - Morgan
GeneralTacticus - Morgan
Hercules - Deirdre
Maniac - Pirates
MisterWhereIsItAt - TBA
TKG - Morgan

Game options:

"Cloned Factions" allowed
Do or Die: eliminated players are not restarted
Spoils of War off
Non-Blind (directed) research
No random events
All victory conditions allowed including cooperative. Coop victory is limited to two players (Not including any players made submissive to either of those two).
Unity survey off - map is unknown
Look first on

PBEM specific rules/restrictions on exploiting bugs:

Multiple reloading of the game to try for different effects is forbidden. If a reload is necessary because of a game crash etc., an explanation should be posted to the turn administration thread.
Multiple drops or orbital insertions using the right-click menu is forbidden. So is airdropping from outside a base/airbase, or after having moved (except on a magtube) using the same method. Using the 'i' key when you want an airdrop means you will automatically comply with these restrictions.
Inserting Stockpile Energy into the build queue after a military unit is forbidden.
If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, they are not allowed to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction in the same turn, causing a change in diplomatic status or the transfer of energy or knowledge.
If an aggressive probe action (anything except infiltration) is used on a faction you have a truce, treaty or pact with, you must select 'Declare Vendetta' in the dialog box that appears afterwards, and notify the victim of your transgression, unless you have received permission in advance. No notification is required in other cases.
Upgrading units with the design workshop is allowed at end of turn only. However, supply crawlers upgraded in this fashion can still be used to advance Secret Projects in the same turn.
Communications only allowed between factions that have obtained each others' commlink frequencies in-game.
Social engineering choice limited to one switch per line per turn. (no flip-flop within turn!)
Psi units cannot be assigned multiple point patrol routes (avoid instant demon boil bug!)
Whenever the planetary council is called, the caller (or the first player to vote if the AI calls it) should post a notification to the thread, including vote totals (if applicable) and who has already voted for what. The other players should post how they vote.
No base trading with the AI. Extortion is allowed.

As soon as everyone confirms their faction, I'll go get us a CMN.

Cedayon · January 28, 2003, 11:35

Quote:

If a player employs a tactic that causes a state of vendetta, they are not allowed to "accept" a pending diplomatic agreement with that faction in the same turn, causing a change in diplomatic status or the transfer of energy or knowledge.

So the diplomatic stuff would not be allowed before or after the vendetta-causing act?

Also, are the standard conquest methods permitted against the other players? There was some discussion about this, I'm not sure where it ended.

In either case, I think I'll go with Morgan this time.

Maniac · January 28, 2003, 13:45

Uh if you excuse me I'd like to have a discussion about a few points before we make the rules definite. I'd like to hear the other players' opinion regarding random events, the stockpile energy bug, and above all (!!!) the map size. Also I'm not at all certain Pandemoniak had given his place to General_Tacticus. It's the same to me who plays (I'll defeat you anyway

), but I wouldn't want this matter decided over Pandemoniak's head, as he posted this message some time back:

Quote:

After feb 12.

Also before deciding my faction I'd like to know what map we are playing on (some premade by the CMN or a random - with which settings then?). This matter is rather important because I once played on a CMN-premade map with the pirates (one of the factions I'm considering now - for fun, I have no idea how to transcend fastest with them) where about all the sea tiles were -1999 depth ocean tiles. Tthe land part of the map was well-made, but the sea was a bit ignored.

Archaic · January 28, 2003, 20:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedayon
So the diplomatic stuff would not be allowed before or after the vendetta-causing act?

You'd be allowed to do it before, as then the Vendetta would still happen after you did the vendetta-causing act. The rule's to stop people attacking or whatever, then accepting a peace, treaty or pact they'd proposed in the diplo window.

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedayon
Also, are the standard conquest methods permitted against the other players? There was some discussion about this, I'm not sure where it ended.

Yes

Quote:

Originally posted by Cedayon
In either case, I think I'll go with Morgan this time.

Done.

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Uh if you excuse me I'd like to have a discussion about a few points before we make the rules definite. I'd like to hear the other players' opinion regarding random events, the stockpile energy bug, and above all (!!!) the map size.

Random Events - They're not actually random, but seeded by the game on the first turn.
Stockpile Energy Bug - You were arguing earlier that it favours Builders, but this isn't the case. You actually have to go and insert it into the queue for the bug to have an effect. Simply having no queues and only the thing currently being produced active completly eliminates the bug.
Map Size - As a frequent player of huge maps in PBEM, I can tell you that we'd be meeting rather soon anyway regardless of the map size, especially if a CMN has tried to spread us out equally.

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Also I'm not at all certain Pandemoniak had given his place to General_Tacticus. It's the same to me who plays (I'll defeat you anyway

), but I wouldn't want this matter decided over Pandemoniak's head, as he posted this message some time back:

He'd said a few posts later that "It's obvious you and I will never play a game" if you'll recall.

Quote:

Originally posted by Maniac
Also before deciding my faction I'd like to know what map we are playing on (some premade by the CMN or a random - with which settings then?). This matter is rather important because I once played on a CMN-premade map with the pirates (one of the factions I'm considering now - for fun, I have no idea how to transcend fastest with them) where about all the sea tiles were -1999 depth ocean tiles. Tthe land part of the map was well-made, but the sea was a bit ignored.

Probably CMN, though we could always use a random map or even DDUBM.

Oh yes, and before I forget. Transcend difficulty everyone.

Method · January 28, 2003, 21:01

DDUBM

Maniac · January 28, 2003, 21:37

Quote:

Random Events - They're not actually random, but seeded by the game on the first turn.

So?

Quote:

Stockpile Energy Bug - You were arguing earlier that it favours Builders, but this isn't the case. You actually have to go and insert it into the queue for the bug to have an effect. Simply having no queues and only the thing currently being produced active completly eliminates the bug.

Are you sure?

I heard from rather veteran players (I thought it was MoSe - don't know sure) that after a building is finished, the production automatically switches to stockpile energy, and therefore you get the extra energy from the stockpile energy bug, just the same as when you put stockpile energy in the queue yourself.

Quote:

He'd said a few posts later that "It's obvious you and I will never play a game" if you'll recall.

He said this to be exact:

Quote:

It is obvious there will be no game that will be played
between us.

Notice he put played in italics. I therefore thought he wanted to say there will be no playing with you in the sense of making fun together. But that he didn't say he no longer wanted to participate. Or it could of course be like you say and I might have an overimaginative mind.

Only Pandemoniak knows!

Quote:

Probably CMN, though we could always use a random map or even DDUBM.

DD's map is even worse for pirates. Half the water is gone!

Hercules · January 28, 2003, 22:56

Well for me I guess it's young Deirdre or Cha Dawn.

Pandemoniak · January 29, 2003, 05:24

No, I wont play in this PBEM, since I may move in march -- I currently live Avenue Maurice Thorez, first french communist senator, and I'll move avenue Vladimir Illitch Lenin, you know the guy, quite a promotion -- and if I do, I'll lose my internet connection, so I wont be able to continue a PBEM during march april and probably june.

I was rather thinking of another challenge to Archaic. Simply take the first save of this DG, MY 2101, play with it by ourselves and see who finishes with the more points. The thing is that it might make us play ahead.

And when I said Archaic and I woulnt most probably not play a game together, remember I insisted on the word "play". Like in playing a game, etc... Do you get what I mean ?

Archaic · February 1, 2003, 01:22

Well, I've got plenty of free time from Monday this week. I suppose I could go back through the threads and find the 2101 turn. How many turns should we play? Up to the current year or so?

In any case, back to the PBEM, GT, would you please stick this thread for the others to see please?

GeneralTacticus · February 1, 2003, 01:27

Done.

Re: Pande's challenge & playing ahead - given that we know where all the other factions are, and pretty much know the layout of the map, you won't be playing ahead. Pod results, randomnly made decisions by the AI, different battle results, etc, will create a different situation from the one we have right now.

Archaic · February 1, 2003, 01:50

Domo Arigato.

Ah, good. We can play this through to completion then. Most points by victory by Transcendance. I'd be going for a quick finish anyway, but I suppose I can hold off and Transcend in the last turn just to see how many points I can rack up from all the pop and research.

Pandemoniak · February 1, 2003, 07:33

Ok, so be it. Do we fix a deadline to give post the results of the game ?

Archaic · February 1, 2003, 08:04

No. Just post up the results of your game when you finish. I'll be keeping a comprehensive turn log for mine (Saves of every single turn, along with text notes of what I did and why), so I suggest you may want to consider keeping one yourself.

Pandemoniak · February 1, 2003, 14:46

Ok, I'll do log. I already thought of a title : "Birth of a Faction".

Maniac · February 1, 2003, 17:17

In case some of you don't feel like digging into pages of threads, I attached the 2101 save. I have a folder with all the current save files until now. I knew it would turn out handy some day.

Archaic · February 2, 2003, 15:54

Thanks for that Maniac.

Pan, here's a little guidepost for you to try and aim for.

MY: 2165
SE: Free Market/Wealth
Comlinks: Morgan (Treaty)
Bases: 21 (3 in GA)
Pop: 46 (92 Votes on Council)
Tech: Cent. Eco., Biogen, Info. Net's, Ind. Base, S. Psych, Ethic. Calc., Plan. Net's, SotHB, Ind. Econ., Ind. Auto., GS, Eco. Engin.
Researching: Envio. Econ.
Tech Cost: 411
TpT: 92
Net Income: 50 Credits a Year
Projects: HGP, WP. (VW and PTS planned to be constructed within 10 turns)

Units
35 Formers (3 in Production)
3 Scout Patrols
26 Supply Crawlers (11 in Production)
2 AA's
1 Unity Rover (1 Lost)

*Yawns* Now.....it's 6am, and I'm been playing since 2am, so I'm going to bed now. ^^;; I'll attach the turn. I'm not sure if I'll restart yet, simply because I might do better when I'm not half asleep, but then, somehow I highly doubt Pan's ability to equal that above. Once the projects are in place (Specifically the VW, PTS and EG), and NN's are built, this game's pretty much clear sailing. I predict I'd be able to transcend by the early to mid 2200's, however I'll keep going after that of course to rack up extra points.

Maniac · February 2, 2003, 16:14

Well I'm currently in MY 2168 and I'm doing much worse. Only 14 bases, each with 3 population except for three with four population (due to the PTS). I already have commlinks with three factions due to Unity pods, and due to massive tech trading with the UoP my tech cost is already around 800. The downside is of course I only discovered IndAut around MY 2160 and EnvEcon is only in my dreams.

GeneralTacticus · February 3, 2003, 06:02

Archaic: When I try to load the file you posted, the game says it's not a valid save file.

Archaic · February 3, 2003, 06:14

Oo
Alright, here, try it as a zip file then.

GeneralTacticus · February 3, 2003, 06:22

Thanks. I'll test it out when my computer unfreezes.

Archaic · February 3, 2003, 06:43

No worries.

GeneralTacticus · February 4, 2003, 03:50

Well, now that I checked it, all I have to say is: wow

. You've certainly beaten the hell out of what we'd achieved, even with an extra ten years to do it in (I don't have a 2165 save, so I compared it to the 2175 one instead), although I imagine trying to admnister it in the DG without governors would be a nightmare.

Archaic · February 4, 2003, 05:06

I did a little "test run" for the hell of it last night (Not an actual part of my game, just to see how quickly I could achieve it), and I found I could take the PTS in less than 5 turns, and the VW another 5 turns after that. All my bases at size 3 would be in GA's, all my higher pop bases would be GA's where I also had a NN. And this is in a Free Market without Psych Spending (With Morgan as a Pactmate, which I bought the same turn as that save I posted up, after the save.). The extra talent of Lal really helps in my play style, at least initially. Expanding under FM was never easier.

Then again, I *am* still rather tech. and infrastructure poor compared to my Zak, however I think I can make up for that by sheer scope. Once I have the EG and start securing Pacts and Treaties, as well as the Governorship, the credits coming in can be used to rush things at my leisure.

The secret's really in the rushing. Full rushes are just foolish. You should only rush what you need to complete whatever it is you're building, plus maybe 10 minerals for the carryover. All it takes is a bit of simple maths.
No carryover = (RC/MR)*(MR-MP)
Carryover = (RC/MR)*(MR-(MP-10))

RC - Rush Cost
MR - Minerals Remaining
MP - Mineral Production

GeneralTacticus · February 4, 2003, 05:19

Yeah, that's pretty much the way we've been doing the rushing here too (or at least the way I've been doing it).

Archaic · February 4, 2003, 05:26

It is? I was under the impression everyone was just doing straight rushes. Glad to know that's not the case. Still.....why the hell do we have such a large treasury then?

GeneralTacticus · February 4, 2003, 05:31

We just haven't been rushing very much, and we experienced something of an economic boom in the last turnchat when we got Engineers and Empaths. We haven't had time to spend it all yet.

Archaic · February 4, 2003, 05:45

Ah, I see. The need for voting and discussion on rushes is preventing them being used as efficiently as they could be. I suppose that's only to be expected.

GeneralTacticus · February 4, 2003, 05:48

There's no need for voting on rushes - I've enve rpolled it. I just ask for the funds and TKg says yes or no, and then I spend them.

Archaic · February 4, 2003, 05:56

Is that so? I guess I stand corrected then.

Method · February 4, 2003, 08:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Archaic
Still.....why the hell do we have such a large treasury then?

DBTS and voltaire don't make many rushes. if we have so much money, i really encourage more.