What is your greatest wish for Civ 4?

[Shogun Gunner]

I think he is very pragmatic.

[Krill]

I really hope that the shared victory works.

Or that you can turn it off.

[Toby Rowe]

Without water, the game would make a mokery of a Navy- Civ 3 abused all rules, not just naval, now we know Civ 4 is on the way we can relax , and forget how bad Civ 3 is in this area.

Like I said: This game goes straight from Civ2 to 4 as 3 is so bad (except for the army idea- your worst nightmare if the army isn't yours. If the AI nations are Mongol, Russian or Roman, but what a diversion from nation building!!)- and I think most fans want that most.

The army idea is good- you'll win, but who wins if the army is an AI one?

I'd like logical reasoning by the developers- they merely have to view history to view if it happened (not Alexander!)

Toby

[Toby Rowe]

Proteus,

I made very clear my opposition to the Sci-fi model, as you should realise- you quoted me.

This game is about changing history, not distorting it- unlike the film U577 (?) etc,etc. (whatever the number of the boat)

Perhaps this is a problem, our 6 year war against a leader that could produce 4 times more, and even produce Dutch, Danish, Czech , French and Belguim soldiers (et al) whilst we fought for freedom, alone.

Current Britons? I blame nobody from any nation for being pissed off with us either, were it not for the 3 billion subsidy France has whilst they demand the 4 billion for the farmers they already have, now the Central European Nations have joined, France must understand that 50% of the budget is spent on her! It must stop.

She is now a parasite within Europe and it is time Europe stood upto her vision of Europe which is based in 1950 upon her. I appaude the French for standing up for workers rights, but it just too late.....

India is now getting most jobs, manufacturing is gone to China and India, Europe has had it's day, as has the US- What angers me most is ALL our Governments encourage it- based upon the US free-trade model us Britiish invented.

This model will bite us one day, and begining to wonder about the French model-- Protectionism isn't so bad after all.

Africa can get a free market on agriculture, damn! I've gone full circle, but a dream of a Europe not consisting of 4.1 billion subsidies to French farmers would be good, although setting up as a Czech farmer wouldn't help, so I won't bother....

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Swissy
AI is for those who have no hope for high-speed internet connection. However good it is it will be overcome. Multiplayer is the most important aspect in the next generation of civ. So what if you can beat the game, try beating a number of excellent players who can trash the AI just as well as you can. It would be a far more rewarding playing experience.

Nah, Civ can't compete with MMORPG's, a basic shooter, or even a simple chess game, if PvP floats your boat.

I play turn-based strategy games for relaxation, or when I need to go afk a lot. It's the extreme patience of a computer opponent that I play turn-based games for, and a good AI would make things more interesting.

[Tommar]

My greatest wish for Civ 4 is that it be SMAC2.

[Nikolai]

Originally posted by Tommar
My greatest wish for Civ 4 is that it be SMAC2.

You will be disappointed. This is Civ, not SMAC. Two similar, but different games.

[DrSpike]

I'd like to see both.

[Nikolai]

That I can agree on! I'd love to see SMAC2 after cIV's release.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Nikolai


You will be disappointed. This is Civ, not SMAC. Two similar, but different games.

Not really. SMAC did a much better job of being an improved version of Civ 2 than Civ 3 did. The alien planet, new tech stuff is superficial. It's unfortunate that it didn't have the Civ name, because it's a lot more like an upgraded Civ 2 than Civ 3 was. Civ 3 was a step down from SMAC.

But yeah, you're right, Civ 3 was an entirely different game than Civ 2 or SMAC. It pretty much sucked. Does that make it more "Civ" than Civ 2 or SMAC?

I dunno. I do know that if Civ 4 is along the lines of Civ 3 (instead of Civ 2 and SMAC), I won't buy it.

[Nikolai]

Civ is civ, SMAC is civ in space in the future. A historical based game is not the same as a sci-fi game. Don't misunderstand me, I liked SMAC very much, it was a fantastic game. But it's not civ. Lots of the ideas from SMAC can, and will, be used in a form or another, but as I see it, cIV can't be = SMAC2. I want a separate game for that anyway.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Nikolai
Civ is civ, SMAC is civ in space in the future. A historical based game is not the same as a sci-fi game. Don't misunderstand me, I liked SMAC very much, it was a fantastic game. But it's not civ.

I understand. I just think that the time period difference is superficial compared to game play and user interface.

[Adagio]

If modding is as good as they say it is, can't you just make a SMAC mod yourself?

[GeoModder]

Plans exist to mod it into SMAC, but without as much as possible of the known bugs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I picked atmosphere. Make the game world seem alive. The AI can never satisfy everyone, but I know they'll try. However with Civ3 they junked the atmosphere. This time it seems they are bringing it back (wonder movies, orcestral music, etc). I love to be drawn into the world. It makes it more addictive for me.

Now to have voice actors read quotes for all the tech advances, like they had in SMAC. That would really make me have to change my pants .

[GeoModder]

Multiple times?

[Jaybe]

What I would really like for Christmas ... I ain't gonna get:
1. A civilization SIMULATION, more of a role-playing realistic game with ups and downs and less control by the player. Plagues, famines, [edit: recessions, depressions,] occasional steps BACKWARDS after some steps forwards.

2. A game where the battles aren't concentrated on the city tile, wars of maneuver, where there might even be front lines in the late game. Front lines even by the AI! -- who knows, this might be possible in CIV.

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Adagio
If modding is as good as they say it is, can't you just make a SMAC mod yourself?

Well, if they do it right, I wouldn't need to

Just to clarify, some things I like about SMAC that Civ3 doesn't seem to have (admittedly, I didn't play Civ3 much at all, since it was so disappointing after SMAC):

A good story.

Social Engineering, which allows a bit more fine-tuning than type of government.

Design Workshop. Not only do I miss my Deathsphere's, I hate having to do up-grades one by one. Then having to restore their orders, again, one by one. (For those who haven't played SMAC, the Design Workshop allows you design units using chassis types you've learned, attack power, defense power, hit points, plus other miscellaneous abilities (SAM, drop pods, anti-aircraft, etc. in any way you see fit. Load 'em all up, it will cost you a lot to build. Strip 'em down, lean mean fighting machine, or good cannon fodder, for a cheap build cost.)

The ability to remove spear chuckers from your build list when you can make mech infantry.

All options that a unit can do available from a menu, rather than having to read a 100 page plus manual to find out a unit can be commanded to explore, even though there's no icon for it.

Without caravans/crawlers, no means for an NYC to exist or to rush a project Manhatten style when in need. Can't even rush projects with cash in Civ3. Perhaps disbanding obsolete units could substitute, but with Design Workshop, there would be no obsolete units. Haven't tried disbanding to feed Wonders, although it's a great way of getting rid of obsolete units (grr, would rather up-grade them via Design Workshop) to rush other items under construction.

The ability to remove obsolete units from the build list.

The ability to modify terrain. Flatten mountains, or raise land over sea.

Automating formers/workers with some specifity without having to read the 100+page manual (AC could do better in this regard, too, at least with a "Plant Forests" option).

After automating/holding/fortifying, the ability to cancel orders globally. I want all 'copters to stop what they're doing and report for duty when needed. Rather than have to go hunt them down, one by one, even if it is via a garrison list.

Not being heavily dependent upon luck (random factors) to get the resources you need.

Not being penalized heavily if the resources you need are not near by. (To heck with diplomacy and the severe corruption hit for large empires!)

A "Go To" list that can be re-ordered by name, distance, etc. Unlike Civ 3, which idiotically only gives you a graphical means to find the destination (OK, so it saves me having to hold the mouse button down while I try to find the destination. Whoopee.)

Building queues. Yeah, I've seen the spot in Civ3 for queued items, but haven't figured out how to use them. Guess I need to read that 100+ page manual.

There's more, but hopefully you get my drift. Being able to make pink terrain isn't what distinguishes SMAC from Civ3.

If all of the above is available in Civ4, I'd be happy, no need to mod SMAC.

[Adagio]

SE is in the game, so no need to worry

About the Unit Workshop I just hope it's not in, so far we have seen no reason to believe it's in

The rest is of little or no interest for me

[Fistandantilus]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I picked atmosphere. Make the game world seem alive. The AI can never satisfy everyone, but I know they'll try. However with Civ3 they junked the atmosphere. This time it seems they are bringing it back (wonder movies, orcestral music, etc). I love to be drawn into the world. It makes it more addictive for me.

Now to have voice actors read quotes for all the tech advances, like they had in SMAC. That would really make me have to change my pants .

Spot on.

"I plan to live forever, of course, but barring that I'd settle for a couple thousand years. Even five hundred would be pretty nice." or "We must... dissent" and tons of quotes from sun tsu or made by the genius who actually wrote the storyline that made playing SMAC an immersive and unique experience. Priceless.

Civs have to be made more unique, factions in smac were a perfect example of that. They had *personality*. Why not put in the civilopedia a small quote from a leader for every advance like in smac? It's really a little thing but it adds to the atmosphere.... And there are too many UU that are next to useless.

Wonders *have* to be epic. Civ3 went the wrong way imo, they were much harder to build (no rush, no multiple construction in different cities, etc) which is good but then they toned down the effect too much. And they came without cutscenes.

"So you built the Shakespeare's Theatre? Ok, you made some peaple happy, here is a static pic of it. Go ahead and keep playing."

If I spent 40 years and lot of effort to build that wonder I expect something more... gratification to the player, even in the form of eye candy is welcome.

I know they all are minor things that doesn't add anything to the actual gameplay, but the things that separate a good game from an epic one are these little details. And I find civ3 really lacking in this part. It's a bit.. cold.

[DrSpike]

Atmosphere comes with involving gameplay. Involving gameplay can only last with good game balance and design, as well as a challenge to focus on. Good AI is a component of the latter, though is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition.

[Kaak]

definately not real time...there are too many rts games out there already, and that is not what civ is about.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Jaybe
What I would really like for Christmas ... I ain't gonna get:
1. A civilization SIMULATION, more of a role-playing realistic game with ups and downs and less control by the player. Plagues, famines, [edit: recessions, depressions,] occasional steps BACKWARDS after some steps forwards.
2. A game where the battles aren't concentrated on the city tile, wars of maneuver, where there might even be front lines in the late game. Front lines even by the AI! -- who knows, this might be possible in CIV.

You really need to take an honest and objective look at the CTP2 AOM project then...because it has exactly what you are asking for.

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Kaak
definately not real time...there are too many rts games out there already, and that is not what civ is about.

It's a scary thought that at the very beginning Civ1 was supposed to be real time

[Tommar]

Originally posted by Adagio
SE is in the game, so no need to worry

About the Unit Workshop I just hope it's not in, so far we have seen no reason to believe it's in

The rest is of little or no interest for me

But do you still think you can mod SMAC out of Civ4? At least the elements that us SMAC fanboys and gals seem to like (which has nothing to do with pink terrain or out-landish tech. )

BTW, why don't you like the Design Workshop? I've heard someone else say the same, (or maybe it was just you in another post) but with no explanation why, so I'm curious.

[Addled Platypus]

Originally posted by Jaybe
What I would really like for Christmas ... I ain't gonna get:
1. A civilization SIMULATION, more of a role-playing realistic game with ups and downs and less control by the player. Plagues, famines, [edit: recessions, depressions,] occasional steps BACKWARDS after some steps forwards.

Killer thought

2. A game where the battles aren't concentrated on the city tile, wars of maneuver, where there might even be front lines in the late game. Front lines even by the AI! -- who knows, this might be possible in CIV.
You never did this?

I have sent a stack off in one dirrection, the AI bought it
and sent the SOD in for put'n the major hurt on

[Adagio]

Originally posted by Tommar
But do you still think you can mod SMAC out of Civ4? At least the elements that us SMAC fanboys and gals seem to like (which has nothing to do with pink terrain or out-landish tech. )

If the modding possibilities is as good as they say it is it *might* be possible to make the workshop, but it wont be easy since you have to change the way units "works". I'm pretty sceptical about this though, so I don't believe this can be done, but maybe I'll be suprised when the game is released and we can finally see what can be done and what can't be done

Originally posted by Tommar
BTW, why don't you like the Design Workshop? I've heard someone else say the same, (or maybe it was just you in another post) but with no explanation why, so I'm curious.

One of the reasons why I don't like it is because it makes the game too complex without any real advantages. (I have to admit I haven't played many games of SMAC, so if I had gotten into the game earlier I might have liked it now). In Civ games I prefer to have a set of units to be used instead of a set of Lego toys so I can assemble my own unit. In the end it'll probably just end up with same units for each game and then you could ask why didn't Firaxis just make these units the standard units in the game?
Or at least that's how I see it, but of course (as mentioned) I could have a different oppinion on this if I actually had played a descent amount of games

There's also another reason why I hate it, but a few months ago I was told a way to avoid that "problem" so I'm not going to mention that. I haven't tested it yet though so I can't be sure it actually works



/me wonders if the above actually makes any sense

[Jaybe]

You never did this?

I have sent a stack off in one dirrection, the AI bought it
and sent the SOD in for put'n the major hurt on

Sure I have. And I have had solid front lines in AI territory where there were high-density road networks near a city of theirs, but it was a contrivance on my part and the AI did not want to play.

And yes, there have been the occasional war of maneuver, especially the AI SOD (of either cavalry or mechanized infantry) who invades and I surround, redline, and destroy them.

But of course, most of the time -- particularly after the AI has expended their offensive forces in a spectacular (and foolish) show of force -- the AI holes up in their cities.

JB
Considering hexagonian's offer of playing CtP2-Age of Man to tide me over until cIV arrives.

[Protra3211]

I hope diplomacy is well be well thought out as this is the cornerstone of playing civilization,
I feel it can make or break the game as you want to feel you are dealing with a real person and not just a program.For example SMACK AI personalities worked well in diplomatic exchanges it was the best feature of the game. It can be done.
But if not it can be moded just look at games like CTP2 which had almost no diplomacy smarts at all has been updated and at least shows signs of life. Thanks to Dale Kent!

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Jaybe
Considering hexagonian's offer of playing CtP2-Age of Man to tide me over until cIV arrives.

civ4 isn't going to be out for a few months anyhow.

IMO, you have nothing to lose (except possibly some time invested in a download and a playthrough) and everything to gain - and it is a way to pass the time until then.

The key is to put aside any past biases and to approach AOM with an objective mindset.

As a somewhat biased (in the past...) CTP2 player, I will say that civ4 looks to be very promising, and it will be on my must-play list.

(I'll say this too - I have been playing a (modified) C3C lately and have enjoyed it.)