Notes to self about the artwork

Velociryx · January 30, 2003, 14:25

Main Map Display:
I like it, but....the one thing that needs changing is the bottom center....that button eventually should display (in stained glass form, if I can do it or wing it) the crest of the faction that the player has selected to play. That'll serve as the "end turn" button, and the stained glass window panels running up either side will serve as buttons to access various in-game menus (budgeting screen, army management window, research screen, etc).

Game Start Screen:
Groovy, but the vines at the top need to be larger and fuller, so that they take up more of the space they're in. The leaves also need to interact more with their surroundings, like the leaves of the rose vine do.

Also, the buttons along the bottom are crooked at this point (and so are some of the diamond buttons on the panels)....need to fix that, and need to put some scroll work in the bottom strip of black, layered behind the buttons.

-=Vel=-

Velociryx · January 31, 2003, 12:03

Note from DeepO re: the game start screen....try texturizing the text boxes for a rougher look....will do!

-=Vel=-

TechWins · February 1, 2003, 02:03

Looking good, a lot better in fact. However, the text in the start up game screen looks unprofessional. It looks really thrown together as I'm sure it was.

Try to organize the layout of the text a little bit better. But I tell ya that background picture is simply amazing! I can't tell if it's a real picture or not...good job on that for sure.

Other than it all looks good and keep up the goodwork.

Btw, isn't this game being made in Java? So doesn't that mean people are going to have to go download the Java runtimes or will you include them as part of the beta download? Sumpin to think about for ya if you actually are going to have to have the java run times.

FrustratedPoet · February 1, 2003, 05:48

Good call TechWins, and I can tell you that the text has already received a bit of a facelift. Some texture has also been added to the 'wall' things that the text is sitting on. We think it is much better now.
I think the pic here still shows the old version, but maybe Vel will update it soon.

Velociryx · February 1, 2003, 08:04

This version of CB is in C++ (as a volunteer effort, in that regard, we shifted gears as needed, based on the folks (and their time) available, but we're still planning a Java project!).

Excellent observations re: the text! Just posted an update to the screen. The text Layout isn't much different, but it is tightened up a bit, and now easier to read. The main problem I had with this screen is that some of the options were long in terms of how much space I had to work with on the menubars, and I had to use two lines to fit them....hadn't planned on that! LOL!

And thank ya for the compliment on the pic in the center! That represents my fifth attempt at a composition in Bryce5....took all day to render, but I'm happy with the results!

-=Vel=-

MarkG · February 1, 2003, 08:08

hey i dont want to see your personal notes! take them out of sight!

Velociryx · February 1, 2003, 11:02

Awwww Markos! C'mon! You mean you don't want this plact to become another DailyDiary.com?

-=Vel=-

MarkG · February 1, 2003, 12:41

as i think more about it, i MIGHT not be a bad idea....

especially if we got some celebrities to join....

Velociryx · February 1, 2003, 16:13

-=Vel=-

Velociryx · February 1, 2003, 23:40

Version four of the game start screen is now up in the art thread. I'm liking the way it's shaping up very nicely, and thought I'd share it straight away with everybody following our progress!

Love it? Hate it? All comments welcome!

-=Vel=-

XarXo · February 2, 2003, 00:26

At this point: What will see a person in the screen? Small map? 3D world zoomable? Chars representing each thing (

) ? ...

Velociryx · February 2, 2003, 01:06

Hey man! We're putting together a 2d Isometric game, so expect a layout pretty similar to Civ3, as far as the structure of the map goes, but since our world size is smaller, we're able to focus in a bit more on details (ie - rather than showing "cities" we're showing graphics of the various provincial improvements in the provinces you build them in. Armies are currently represented by stationary graphics, though of course, the hope is that we'll be able to make animations for these eventually, but that won't likely appear till after the game shifts to the open beta. The graphics aren't to the level of Civ3 yet, but they're improving with each iteration, and our goal is to use that as a benchmark (eventually, we want graphics AT LEAST on par with Civ3, if not surpassing).

We've currently only got the default zoom level, but we're workin' on that too....

-=Vel=-

Velociryx · February 2, 2003, 18:29

A note about the "jump buttons" at the bottom of the Research screen.

The plan is for these buttons to be present on all Kingdom Management screens, enabling total, seamless navigation to any other Kingdom Management screen without having to close the window and re-select a new window from the main map display.

A short description of what each of the buttons points to, is below:

Armies: Would take you to the "Manage Armies" window, displaying a list of all your armies, what province they're currently in, provide you with some indication of their strength (click on an army to get more detailed information), whether the army was led by a leader, etc).

Close: Rather self-explanatory (and this button will prolly be made more distinctive from the rest in future builds of the screen).

Budgeting: Takes you to the Budgetary window, where you can adjust the percentage of resources allocated to Civilian and Military concerns. As it will be possible to have income coming in from a variety of different sources, even in the early versions of the game, a breakdown of where your income is coming from, and what it's currently being spent on will also be on this screen (and probably compiled and somewhat duplicated on the Statistics window).

Diplomacy: Takes you to the Diplomacy window, where you can review currently enacted deals, cancel deals, initiate new ones, and review your diplomatic standing with the other factions in the game (Question: What do you guys think about the possibility of allowing formal diplomatic relations with ALL provinces....even the "neutrals" ??

Espionage: The dark brother of Diplomacy, this button would take you to the Espionage window, where you could review the status of your Espionage outfit, see how many espionage action points you have to work with, how many agents, where they are and what they're doing, and initiate new, or cancel ongoing espionage activities (relocate agents, retire them, hire new, etc).

The Grimoire: Still looking for a better word here....this will eventually point the way toward the "Encyclopedia" of Candle'Bre, which is similar in its function to the Civlopedia in Civ3.

Stats: This will take you to the compiled statistics of your kingdom, and I'd like to make these (normally rather dry in other games) as dynamic and engaging as possible. No firm ideas on what should go here yet, but among some possible ideas that are being kicked around are: Provinces owned, provinces where you have land and title rights, battles won: battles lost, total army strength and composition, troops lost (total, and broken out by type), etc.

Book of Fate: Over the course of the game, players may recieve "Fate Cards" which further CB's storyline, and produce in-game effects of a variety of natures. Some of these cards may be kept, and played on an as-needed basis, and if you have any in storage, this is where they'll be, allowing you to review what you've got, and when it might be most beneficial for you to play them.

Magic: Takes you to the Magic Window, where you can check on the following:
* What spells you have available
* How much mana you have currently, how much you're getting per turn, and how much you're spending per turn (and on what).
* Enchantment Management - How many spells you've currently got running, and what their status is (some last indefinitely with no upkeep, some have an upkeep cost, and some have "counters" - lasting for X turns). You will be able to voluntarily end any enchantment you cast from this screen.
* Allow you to cast new spells to build yourself up, or wreck your enemies

And that's....about that....

-=Vel=-

XarXo · February 2, 2003, 19:15

About Magic:

Magic should be divided into 13 elements:

10 basic, or minor level, elements, here are they exposed with the opposite:

Water - Fire
Light - Darkness
Earth - Wind
Time - Stopness*
Electricity - Nature

*"Stopness" or Invariability causes the paralization of what happens, is just something that downs the entropy. Combined with water causes Ice. Is the representation of cold, absolut zero, etc...

2 complex, or medium level, elements, just are the mix of groups of 5 opposites that generates powerful spells, are VERY VERY rare:

Water, Nature, Light, Time and Earth are "Fullness"
Stopness, Darkness, Wind, Fire and Electricity are "Emptyness"

Emptyness reigns in the Void, this is, causes desintegration.
Fullness concentrates matter, origins gravity or complex systems.

Finally, the High Level element, the correct balance of the 10 basic:

Creation: Used for create without using an existing system of an element (this is, we don't need a fertile soil to create a Magic Mushroom, or an air atmosphere for a tornado).

Creation is very powerful, so its use should be forbidden except for small things.

BustaMike · February 2, 2003, 20:26

XarXo, I think the magic system has been pretty well decided, but those are interesting ideas. Have a look here:
http://www.pyromaniaks.net/candlebre...=&threadid=222

BigRich · February 3, 2003, 06:59

XarXo,

Thanks - some great ideas there! As BustaMike said, the magic system has been largely finalised for the moment, simply to give the coding team a fixed target to work at for the public beta. I imagine that once the beta is out then improvements will be made - so any ideas/comments are still very welcome!

In the meantime check out:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=49476

This should give you some idea of current thinking on where we hope the magic system is going eventually. Current as in open to change

cheers,

Rich.

Velociryx · February 3, 2003, 09:04

Yep....what they said....but I must say....that's some pretty coolio thinking on the system....

-=Vel=-

XarXo · February 3, 2003, 10:48

MM, but seems that you simply divided it in 4 hermetic elements, could be great that an empire investigate ech element to obtain some spells, this is, minor spells with 1 to 4 mixes, medium 5 to 9 and high with 10. A "magic research" or "magic production" (with 10 different magic wells that should be bouilded in special tiles), with the combination of this production and the knowledge, you can do more and more powerful spells (or maintain enchantments to increase food production for example).

OK OK, NO MORE SUGGESTIONS!!

Sorry! I just want say this!

Velociryx · February 3, 2003, 11:18

Yep....this is very true...we used the classic elemental breakdown to structure this version of the magic system, but here on 'poly (it's been a while since we kicked the idea around, so you'll have to set your browser to look for older threads here), we actually had some discussion about growing into a system very much like you described!

-=Vel=-

FrustratedPoet · February 3, 2003, 14:24

Quote:

Originally posted by BigRich
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=49476

This link doesn't work for me. Is there a typo in the URL or am I just a bit useless? (or both?

)

pg · February 3, 2003, 18:02

i think you should devide all the options into more screens rather than squeezing them all onto just a few. it just seems like an awful lot to absorb with that many options on one screen. even if you added more options overall it'd be much easier to digest if they were sorted into specific groups on different screens. unless most of them are just check mark boxs for options at the beginning of the game(like civ3's) then i think they'd look better much smaller in a list sorted by category(which it looks like they are now). now it looks just like you've taken everything and shoved into where ever it can be made to fit(this is made worse because it's all text). don't be afraid to make things smaller, the whole screen doesn't need to be packed!

Velociryx · February 3, 2003, 18:10

Hey man! In the case of the game start screen, the Civ-comparison is spot on.....those options are just "check the one you want" in each category.

In the Research Screen.....each tree is listed on its own scroll. One way to limit the clutter would be to maybe build in "scroll buttons" so that only a few were displayed, but the whole list would still be in an organized place.

One of the big dangers we run into in organizing it onto multiple screens tho, is that people will begin to complain that "all the information isn't easily accessible"....if we make players click to four different screens, for example, to see the status of their technology, that's going to get tiresome thru the course of the game.

But, I agree that there are things we can do to refine the process....we just gotta walk the line before ease on the eye and player annoyance with too much clicking.....

-=Vel=-

FrustratedPoet · February 3, 2003, 18:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Velociryx
But, I agree that there are things we can do to refine the process....we just gotta walk the line before ease on the eye and player annoyance with too much clicking.....

Exactly. I think what we've got right now is a good start. When people are actually playing the game it'll be easier to see what works and what needs a re-think.
No doubt changes will be made in several places as a result of player feedback.

Chowlett · February 3, 2003, 21:04

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

This link doesn't work for me. Is there a typo in the URL or am I just a bit useless? (or both?

)

There's a ? missing between php and s - I think...

BigRich · February 4, 2003, 06:13

Quote:

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet

This link doesn't work for me. Is there a typo in the URL or am I just a bit useless? (or both?

)

Nope - the link is bust. Try this:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=49476

Ooops

Rich.

edit Yep thats got it. Thanks Chowlett.

ravagon · February 4, 2003, 20:59

Mmmkay ... Probably the easiest thing to do is list the negatives I think ... offense intended to none but it makes for a much shorter list IMHO.

1st Screen - Only thing I don't really like is the green used in the border. It has a bit too much blue in it - reminds me of my old 4-colour monitor a bit (anybody else remember those?).

2nd Screen - Main Map - The text is a little tricky to read - the shadow effect I think although it could just be my monitor ...

*thumps monitor - damn. Made it worse*

3rd to 5th Screens - Game Start - Favourite text is in the second - with the yellow background - the third Screen with the white background is just a bit trying on the eyes ... *thumps monitor again*
Favourite Pic is in the 3rd Screen - the blurring of the water below the tower gives a much better effect IMO.

The green (Ivy?) is also much closer to the colour I'd like to see around the screen borders above.

6th to 9th Screens - Research - No opinion on differences as I haven't actually used the interface.
The text strikes me as a tad small for the font type used though - somebody unfamiliar with it may find it tricky to make out?

I was also thinking there might be a better backdrop for the theme - Something like a picture off one of my old AD&D manuals - a lab or somesuch with alembics, retorts and whatnot perhaps?
*Finally gives up and hits evil monitor with hammer before ringing systems support guys to come and replace "mysterious breakage" *

Overall the whole thing looks rather good at present. A big

Velociryx · February 7, 2003, 21:15

Thanks Rav, and to everyone who has been commenting here! With each new comment, we find out a bit more about what people like, don't like, and are generally looking for. When the game is unveiled, it is my hope that everybody will be pleased at what we have helped create together!

-=Vel=-

hexagonian · February 8, 2003, 12:52

Some observations (all opinions, and not meant to be taken as anything more than preferences on my part),

The image on the startup screen is very nice and atmospheric - but the predominence of grey on all the screens tends to make the screens look lifeless. As it stands, everything blends together.

Maybe something along the brown/beige pallette for the menu selection sections. Or more saturation/color in the buttons to add sparks of color.

The script type is OK for headers, but a normal serif type (like Garamond or Times) would make them easier to read and easier on the eyes. Small jewels next to each entry on the Research screen would set them off from one another.

I know eye candy is not supposed to be as important as gameplay, but trust me, it does matter.

hexagonian · February 10, 2003, 17:15

alterations to existing screens below (very rough)

hexagonian · February 12, 2003, 17:00

Here is a possible look...

(I'm currently involved with another alt-civ project, so I cannot commit to this project, but this might help those who are creating the screens here to see what can be done regarding a 'look')

Keep it clean and simple.