ELECTION - Minister of Defence - Page 3

Zaphod Beeblebrox · February 4, 2003, 12:45

why don't you explain your plans already now? then we may know, if you really are the right person for that job ;-)

Zaphod Beeblebrox · February 4, 2003, 12:59

damn, connection lost, text lost, but posted anyway, thats how dps come to existence

Zaphod Beeblebrox · February 4, 2003, 13:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Turambar

I've never said we should attack NOW at any point. Please find a quote before saying stuff like that.

well, not that exact quote, but i guess people can make their minds about your intentions from these excerpts of the game chat:

[23:50] *Turambar* no settlers!

[23:52] *mapfi* we stand no chance with two cities
[23:52] *Locutus* not
[23:52] *Turambar* we should take advantage of our luck at getting archers so early
[23:52] *mapfi* all the others have them anyway...
[23:53] *Locutus* no settlers now. maybe after the archer-hoplite combo, maybe...
[23:53] *Turambar* i got them early in my current SAP game like this and destroyed the closest civ with one city
[23:53] *Turambar* of mine

[00:04] *J_Bytheway* I think another settler would be good too, but I always build too many of them...
[00:04] *J_Bytheway* Yes
[00:04] *Turambar* no settlers imo
[00:04] *Locutus* how many turns to settler and bronze now?
[00:04] *mapfi* last change to change build queu to settler otherwise its another archer next turn
[00:04] *Tamerlin* Some settlers will help us growing.
[00:04] *mapfi* settler 11 turns now, after the archer it's 13
[00:04] *Turambar* we should take Austrian cities instead....
[00:04] *J_Bytheway* Bronze in 3
[00:05] *Zaphod* we won't be able to
[00:05] *Turambar* why not?
[00:05] *mapfi* kart builds archer in 2
[00:05] *Turambar* Hoplite and Archer armies!

[00:07] *mapfi* quickvote settler?
[00:07] *Locutus* I never changed my mind but I wanted to deceive the austrians long enough to be able to strike hard
[00:07] *Zaphod* but they haven't worked against us yet
[00:07] *Turambar* archer
[00:07] *Tamerlin* Yes, a settler
[00:08] *J_Bytheway* Settler
[00:08] *Zaphod* and you really believe we have reached that point in history? i doubt that
[00:08] *Zaphod* settler
[00:08] *Locutus* hmm, 1 city in mountanous terrain has advantages... fast production == large military...
[00:08] *mapfi* i'm for settler as well
[00:08] *Turambar* Wise's decision
[00:08] *Turambar* i see your point loc...
[00:08] *Wise* orders- Settler in Pedrunn
[00:09] *mapfi* 4/1 - wise ass, tur, and IW missing
[00:09] * Zephyr is now known as setler2
[00:09] *Zaphod* yehaw!
[00:09] *mapfi* orders for bob? sw i assume?
[00:09] *J_Bytheway* Build queue changed

[00:53] *Turambar* with them for now. Austria is our target...

Maquiladora · February 4, 2003, 13:31

Turambar from earlier in this thread...

Quote:

The MoD doesn't choose which units to build! The MoD doesn't decide if we go to war!

The MoD is responsible for moving troops during peace and war, and can poll if we should go to war or not.

So regardless of his wishes as a citizen voting in a seperate poll on war issues, his ideas on starting war are just ideas, and frankly thats how a MoD should act, unless we control the world, until such time, we need an aggresive MoD now IMO.

His intentions or not, he cant make you go to war (thats upto the citizens), but id rather an aggresive MoD going to war for us, than a peaceful one, and make no mistake we will be going to war one way or another.

Pedrunn · February 4, 2003, 16:37

Now i am more certain about my vote to Turambar

Thanks, Zaphod!

Immortal Wombat · February 4, 2003, 19:19

People of Lemuria! Lend me your ears!

My honourable opponent Turambar has presented to you with great eloquence the case for a pre-emptive war against the nation of Austria.

We need the cities, he says. We need the war on our terms, he says. Can I remind the good people of Lemuria who have not yet cast their vote, that this is a matter of strategy. War is not the be all and end all of the game. We are not, for instance, using Cradle. Diplomacy still holds sway, in immensely powerful ways. We have Locutus as our Minister of Diplomacy (and assorted stuff). If there is anyone better capable to act as diplomat, I don't know of them!
But why not a war, you ask? Would it not be advantageous?

Maybe. But can we really make a war work? We have three cities/settlers. Austria already had six when we met them. Goodness knows how many they have now, and their military surpasses ours by how much now?
Turambar says we will go to war "when we are ready to do so". If we do nothing but build units, we ill never be ready to do so. We must settle, settle, settle, keep the AI off our backs, and develop at our civilisation's core a glowing, powerful industrial heartland, churning out science faster than the AI could dream, and defended beyond reach of assault. Defending (should war be forced upon us - and our diplo corps should prevent this) is much easier than attacking. Attacking can wait until we have no choice.

We can survive this game without a war. Diplomatic victories are possible, science victories are possible. We can win this game without firing a shot, arrow, or even raising a sword in anger.

It seems to me that when men casually speak of war, they forget the horrific truth of what they speak. A warrior unit? ten thousand (10,000! Can you imagine such a number?) of our finest men. Sent for what? To die in the face of Austrian resistance, on home soil, with spears, and bows.
The horror and sacrifice of war should not be forgotton. We have a civilisation. We have risen above the barbary of our past, and should strive to bring peace to the world through good, not domination.

Let us not descend to the level of the barbarians who we defend our lands from - let us rise above the bloodied battlefields, and develop our culture, prosperity and livelihoods. For the sake of our children's children! Would you have them remember us as bloodthirsty evildoers who struck at the heart of their peaceful neighbours with nerry a casus belli? Or would you have them remember us as the wise, peace-loving people who turned our backs on the old ways, the Way of the Jungle and of the Beast, and forged a civilisation worthy to stand up and be counted for its own merits, not by the corpses of its slain foes?

Quote:

I'd also like to hear some more from IW on the subject. Seems his APP friends are doing all the campaigning for him

Because my dear Turambar, the people care. War is not the solution to our problems. To attack Austria would be to sign a death warrant for us all. Would that everyone was an APP member.

I pity you all, warmongering fools. And may your sons be first among the hoard let forth if we do go to war. Do not think to tell me you would not shed a tear for them as they ride bravely to the war you wrought this fell month.

Think long, good citizens. For all our sakes.

Thankyou.
The Immortal Wombat

Tamerlin · February 4, 2003, 20:02

Immortal Wombat, your speach was one from a wise man. The pillars of our nation should be peace and science, for a country whose foundations are based on blood and swords would crumble under the weight of its guilt.

But we are not lambs and under the guidance of Immortal Wombat we will build the army that will secure our territory and protect our children from our ennemies. Our settlers will create the new cities that we need in order to spread our civilization and in each city we will build the centres of knowledge that will make our nation shine in the firmament.

That is what we propose you people of Apolytonia, to rule the world through our achievements and not through an hideous bloodbath.

HuangShang · February 4, 2003, 21:21

at least we're winning keep the votes for Turambar coming!

Turambar · February 4, 2003, 21:34

Well there's about 30 mins left but I'll respond anyway.

Quote:

War is not the be all and end all of the game.

I never said it was. The people shall ultimately decide on matters regarding war.

Quote:

We have Locutus as our Minister of Diplomacy (and assorted stuff). If there is anyone better capable to act as diplomat, I don't know of them!

Nope. But I'm fairly sure he voted for me

.

Quote:

Maybe. But can we really make a war work? We have three cities/settlers. Austria already had six when we met them. Goodness knows how many they have now, and their military surpasses ours by how much now?

We can make war work if the people want. We may be outnumbered but we are far more intelligent than the Austrians or any other AI civ. Do you have so little faith in yourself and the people of Lemuria to be able to successfully conduct a war?

Quote:

We must settle, settle, settle, keep the AI off our backs, and develop at our civilisation's core a glowing, powerful industrial heartland, churning out science faster than the AI could dream, and defended beyond reach of assault.

Settle, settle, settle where? The AI's are settling far quicker than us! Soon there will be no room to settle! they are already too close as it is! How do we keep the AI off of our back? Spend our already small gold reserve on gifts to them? What happens when the monet runs out? Or if we need to rush buy?

Quote:

Defending (should war be forced upon us - and our diplo corps should prevent this) is much easier than attacking. Attacking can wait until we have no choice.

Defending against enemies who can send larger armies than us is far easier? How exactly? We though having a smaller force can plan attacks far better. We can take their weak spots! And then build up to attack where they are stronger!

How do you plan to defend us when we build nothing but settlers to "Settle, settle, settle"?

Quote:

We can survive this game without a war. Diplomatic victories are possible, science victories are possible. We can win this game without firing a shot, arrow, or even raising a sword in anger.

And where exactly will we expand our nation to in order to achieve the growth needed to win this way? How will we keep every AI from attacking us throughout the entire game?

Quote:

Let us not descend to the level of the barbarians who we defend our lands from

I seem to remember sending all our scouting units home despite peoples desires to keep on exploring, to defend against barbs and with success I might add.

Would you even consult the people on the issue of war or not? I plan to, and to follow their wishes whatever they may be!

Turambar · February 4, 2003, 21:50

Seems my last post wasn't needed....

Well done on a well fought campaign IW. That was dam close!

Tamerlin · February 4, 2003, 22:28

Congratulations Turambar, the citizens have voted and I respect their choice as the people being the essence of our empire can not be wrong.

We have lost the battle but we have not yet lost the war, our fight for peace goes on...

Zaphod Beeblebrox · February 5, 2003, 06:12

of course the people can be wrong, there are countless countless examples in ll-history, but i hope they haven't been here.

my congratulations turambar!

medio · February 5, 2003, 09:23

congrats turambar. well fought.

Gilgamensch · February 5, 2003, 09:53

My congratulation Turambar.

Was a quite close call

Maquiladora · February 5, 2003, 11:30

Seems like these MoD elections are always damn close

Immortal Wombat · February 5, 2003, 14:51

Wutang! No responsibilties for me! I was almost in danger of winning there.

Congrats Turambar.

Devil of Truth · February 6, 2003, 06:18

Well done Turambar.