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Old February 5, 2003, 12:10   #1
Fried-Psitalon
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Wonderous (and not so Wonderous) Wonders analyzed for MP
Well, since my last thread is finally dying off.....Time again for Friedrich to make a few statements about multiplayer theory in the hopes of generating interesting discussion over the nature of the beast. Today's topic: Great Wonders, and the utility of each in the 'typical' (Small/Tiny maps, ending approx late-Feudal, Pangea-heavy) MP games, such as those seen on the Civ3 Ladder. (There, I got my shameless plug in early this time, happy?)

The analysis WILL attempt to consider more wide-ranging needs, but in general, will focus on the usual "Normal MP Elim" game environment.

A ratings are reserved for projects considered highly important or vital. These are generally gamebreakers, or at the very least exceedingly difficult to compete against if someone else gets them.

B ratings are for 'very nice' wonders that can really help in a game but don't provide an almost unbeatable edge.

C ratings are for wonders that you might use sometimes, but generally aren't particularly useful in the MP environment.

D ratings are given to wonders that really, you would only want to build for GA purposes, but might come in handy for that reason.

F ratings are given to wonders that the city in question might do just as well producing wealth.

For no better reason, I'll simply begin from the bottom of the Ancient Tech Tree and work my way up to the top.



The Oracle - Religous wonder. Graded: C

The Oracle's usefulness in MP games is very situational. Religious Civs may find The Oracle handy to capitalize on those cheap temples. Other Civs facing significant problems with unrest may also work on this wonder. Generally, though, if you can snag two luxuries, that's enough to keep things pretty much under control with just a temple and a small garrison- no Oracle required. The Oracle also is by no means your only shot at GA-triggering with the Religious trait; the Gardens and the Pyramids also supply it. Odds are decent that you'll also learn Mysticism while you're still REXing/scouting the surrounding lands; a bad time to distract a city with one specific cause for a long time.

The Hanging Gardens Industrious wonder. Graded: D+

The Hanging Gardens should probably be built only as a GA-trigger. Its effect on the population isn’t particularly significant, and it is by no means the only way of getting an Industrious trait enroute to a "Peace GA." Toss in the fact that you’re probably going to want to take advantage of your new Monarchy by producing something expensive and more important (say, units or improvements to your cities that will actually be worthwhile after escaping Despotism) and you’ve got a wonder that probably isn’t worth the time. If you’re done REXing/scouting (possible by now,) not at war with someone, and there aren’t any other wonders available, AND you have a high-shield producing city that isn’t doing anything else vitally important (not even the Forbidden Palace?) AND you have problems with unrest…then sure, the Hanging Gardens are just what you need. :P

The Great Lighthouse Expansionist/Commercial wonder. Graded: A or F
Whether or not the Great Lighthouse is a spiffy wonder to build depends on one thing and one thing only: whether or not you have access to your opponents when you build it! It IS possible on a Pangea to have two separate landmasses, and it is also possible for those land masses to have only one small section of coastal connecting them, or none at all, forcing Galleys to traverse Sea for at least one turn to make a transcontinental trip. In such cases, the Great Lighthouse is absolutely vital to success- it grants you the ability to attack your opponent without fear of reprisal for at least –bare minimum- (assuming they have not yet researched Mathematic/Construction) 28 turns! Please note this assumes your opponent can pull 4-turns-to-breakthrough research all the way into the middle of the Medieval Era, which is by no means an easy feat. It is entirely possible that the Great Lighthouse might give you unanswerable attacks for 100 turns, or more! Not only can such attacks be made without fear of reprisal, they can also be made without much warning- galleys lurking in the sea can spot national boundaries on the coastline, and potentially move in and dump off troops without any warning- well timed, it can even prevent an opponent from reinforcing before attack! (Do you think Friedrich has won games this way? Very good, boys and girls.)
On the other hand, if you’re on a big, solid land mass, this is a complete waste of time. You may not even be ABLE to build it, since you need a coastal city to begin production. If you need a peaceful GA trigger, go build the Colossus. :P (What a downer to end with after that glorious praise to start, eh?)

The Great Library Scientific wonder Graded: D-

Frankly, the only thing saving The Great Library from an “F” rating is the fact that it is the only hope for a Scientific Civ to trigger a GA without a war. Most games, I don’t even bother to research Literature, and consider it a boob prize if a hut gives it to me. Libraries are great research items in well-developed cities, but the amount of research they add to small, ancient-era cities is arguably not worth the shield production cost and the maintenance…. Particularly when you consider the time wasted in building them, and the research wasted in getting the ability to build them. (Please note, this is not true for much longer games, but in warmonger-heavy elim style games, it is certainly a factor.) The effect of the Great Library is also dubious in MP; except for a lucky Expansionist civ, MOST games don’t see players jumping out to huge tech leads. (Bear in mind you need to have at least 4 (including yourself) players ALIVE at the time you have the Great Library for it to function at all! Possibly, you could simply turn off research at that point and take advantage of increased tax/luxury possibilities…but again, there are better things you could’ve built in that time. Still, Scientific cultures with their cheaper libraries and need for GA’s might find the Great Library – and Literature as a whole – worthwhile.

The Great Pyramids Industrious/Religious wonder Graded: B-

The Pyramids are handy for several reasons- firstly, the very obvious city growth. Having a brand new city start with a granary increases growth (duh) and can turn it into a contributing member of your Civ – either militarily, monetarily, or otherwise – fairly quickly. It can also save you a maintenance fee that will add up if you like to build granaries in multiple towns. It also gives two different Civ traits, which can be nice for aiming for “Peace GA’s” and in fact is exactly what Egypt needs all in one (Egypt should consider this an A- wonder.) Those are the (considerable) good points of the Pyramids. On the downside, you either start with the ability to work on the Pyramids – which forces you to choose between risking losing them or putting a city on wonder production very early, an unpleasant decision to make….. or you have to research Masonry, which means you choose between trying to chase down a wonder someone else may already have put a good bit of time into building (not all bad, you can switch wonders if you happen to lose- usually) or simply ceding the Pyramids to someone else. Honestly, I’d being work on this anyhow – you can always switch off to something else more handy if the opportunity presents itself. Take care not to stunt your Civ’s early growth, however, by chasing this wonder down TOO soon. (Hint: If you only have one city, it’s probably a bad idea!)

The Colossus - Expansionist, Religious, Commercial Wonder Graded: C

The Colossus, examined simply as a wonder on its own merits, is mediocre. One more commerce in every square that produces it? Weeee, for 200 shields you can build a whole bunch of workers and slap down roads to improve commerce all over the place. However, the Colossus does cover three different Civ traits (coincidence with its crappy effect from a balance point of view? Hmm, I wonder….) and is the only wonder this early in the game to do so. Special added bonus: It also ties with the Great Wall for cheapest wonder. For just over the cost of three granaries, you too can trigger a GA if you are England, India, Iroqouis, Arabia or Spain. Anyone else can probably pick up one of their Civ traits – that is, of course, unless you’re China, Germany, Persia, or the Ottomans in which case the Colossus is about as useless as they come. You might still want to build this wonder to deny one of the above cultures access to it, though.

The Great Wall Military, Industrious Wonder Graded: A

I’m sure someone will disagree with me, but I’m going to suggest that the Great Wall is the absolute, most important wonder to get your hands on- in fact, I’ll drop everything to snag it if I think there is any chance of attack (and there is always SOME chance of attack, unless you are truly smearing someone….) so as to protect myself and deny it to others. China should sell its soul for the Wall- instant GA when you can’t get one from your UU anytime soon. Examine the defensive possibilities…. A spearman behind walls has a 3 defense; behind walls and on a hill, that bonus pops up to 4. Toss in the Great Wall and that bonus jumps up to a monsterous, ugly 6! Even Persia would rather not charge into the face of the equivalent of Rifles on defense, all things considered. If you manage the Great Wall as Greece or Carthage, you have a staggering 9, (or more, depending on how exactly it is calculated) for your foes to try and break through – holy not-quite-infantry Batman! Beware catapults that will tear down your walls, but if you can keep them away, you’re set. If for no other reason, you should build the Great Wall to keep it OUT of the hands of your enemy – and at 200 shields to build, there’s simply no excuse not to build it. Metallurgy is a long way away, and relative safety until then is a nice thing to have!

Moving on to the Medieval wonders…..

Art of War Militaristic Wonder Graded: B-

Sun Tzu’s academy of the fine arts is a nice thing to have in very large games with lots of cities changing hands- but in this environment, it’s only barely nifty. Most border towns should have barracks in them (if only for unit healing) and you only need to TAKE one town to win most games anyhow, so the ‘barracks for all’ feature is okay, but not fabulous. I don’t know about you, but most times I already have barracks created in most, if not all, of my cities by the time I get to the feudal era. If you’re not playing Elim, or you’re playing with a lot of opponents and have time to expand considerably, this wonder’s value increases dramatically. Otherwise…well….shouldn’t you be pushing out Medieval Infantry right now? Given the existence of only one military wonder in the Ancient, this might be a nice way to get a “Peace GA” for your militaristic culture, though….even if that might be a semi-contradiction.

Leonardo’s Workshop Militaristic Wonder Graded: B+

Most times, a multiplayer game will see people pushing their research sliders as hard as they can, and cutting costs whenever possible. This can make upgrading your units a little painful, particularly if you’re a very aggressive player who has lots of units running around. Given that you will probably finish this wonder right around or after you research Gunpowder (if you’ve planned properly) you’re going to have some upgrading to do- from pikes to muskets, if not spears to muskets. That can be expensive, and you may also have some swordsmen running around that you can’t justify spending that much gold to move them all up to Med. Inf. Voila, Leonardo has your problem solved. Special added bonus: Militaristic wonder, so if you didn’t snag the Great Wall or the Art of War (uh..but you uh…somehow manage to be the first one to build this….) you’ve got one more chance to be a Peaceful Militarist with a Golden Age. If your game somehow is running very long, this might be a nice way to move your knights to cavalry down the line (or your horsemen/mounted warriors/what-have-you to knights.)

Sistine Chapel Religious Wonder Graded: F

Don’t get me wrong, I’m as much a fan of the arts as the next guy, but if you build this wonder, you need to have your head examined. Doubling the effectiveness of Cathedrals? You built cathedrals why again? If unrest is THAT serious a problem in a MP game, you’re having more issues than this wonder can fix. Maybe, possibly, a religious Civ that had lots of time to kill would build this – but are you SURE you have nothing better to do? A cathedral might be needed in one or two cities, but more than that, and you either need to get some luxuries or examine your government/play style. There’s no reason to need double-strength ones. The Sistine isn’t cheap, either- why’d you research this instead of going after the Art of War or Leonardo’s? Oh yeah, and there are 3 religious wonders available before this one, and cheaper, too. For a large, LONG, well-developed game of Civ, Sistine is vital. For the average dirty, cutthroat, never-see-hospitals and in your face MP game, the Sistine is an utter waste of time.

I’m going to cut off the list here for now, largely because I’ve never yet played a MP game that saw opportunities to build Copernicus, Adam Smith’s, Bach’s, et al. If there really is a demand for discussion of these, I can certainly go back and add them later.

Enjoy, argue, scorn, and so on!
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Old February 5, 2003, 16:42   #2
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The Great Wall could maybe be useful in an elimination game but I would give it a B+ instead. If it put walls in all cities on the same continent (I urge everyone to edit their game on this point) then an A+ for elimination games.

Otherwise this is a good overview. I think we need another for the full MP game. Good job
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Old February 5, 2003, 17:40   #3
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Fried - one thing that I think you're failing to take into account is the scoring implications of the Religious wonders in the Oracle and the Hanging Gardens.

These can be significant score boosters in a civ and can definitely tip the balance between you and another civ if you're evenly matched and get this.

I've managed some come from behind victories where people are very surprised when they see my score jumping up when my territory hasn't really expanded.
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Old February 6, 2003, 07:15   #4
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Eloquence, u r on the money.However, thats Classified,now u r fined. Score is very important in the(ELIM) MP game when it is timed...Even the Omnipresent Mounted Warriors can spill only so much blood in three hours with alert experienced civs as foes.
If you dont have land to expand ,expand what you have...

sorry, my moms calling...got to go *. *
-=- mycomments are not to offend ,only to inspire{something good I hope }...
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Old February 7, 2003, 08:52   #5
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The type of game has a great impact on how you rate wonders. The prevalent game now is the timed (2-4 hours) with or without Elim. My comments are based on this type of game, except where noted (Colossus)

The Great Wall is an A only if you a certain you have built enough cities early and have enough cash generation to go for the points victory in a timed game (elim or not). Building the Great Wall early neglects balanced tech progression for most civs, though Carthage/Frane do get the biggest leg up on getting to construction. The Great Wall benefits are also lost when the city grows past 6, actually making it EASIER to attack a size 7+ city than to attack a 1-6 size city with walls.

The Pyramid population boost give a big shot in the arm for a player with alot of river cities. It is probably a must have for any civ that finds thenself on that side island that sometimes happends on a pangea map.

The Great Lighthouse is another of those wonders that is more map driven than anything. If you on the "pangea side island" build it right away. Otherwise I find it only useful for the extra movement point and the ability to move away form the coast for a sneak invasion.

In timed games the happines wonders like Oracle and Haning Gardens are a great benefit. If you have rivers a plenty with plains or sheilded grasslands you can go for the startegy of outgrowing everyone. But you need one of these wonders to keep the people content. I prefer the Hanging Gardens as you don't need a temple to get the effect. This is good when you just try to stick a city on every other river square in your core area, the corrution make temples quite long to build. A I try to aways play a Industious Civ, the HG gives me a shot at GA if war hgasn't happen.

Great Library is pretty much a dead wonder. Most players do not even research Literature, it isn't necessary to start working the next age techs. The one situation would be a player going for the strategy of super happiness. The resarch enough tech to build spears and catapults for defense, swords and horsemen to harrass any attacker. Then set the science to zero and max out the happiness slider. With enough cities you can make 10 points plus a turn. I have been able to make up 5-6 points a turn using this strategy. Getting the Great Library will allow you to catch up in tech at the end and have Med Inf and Pike, possibly Knights, to last out any final onslaught.

The Colossus is the BEST wonder in one type of game that in increasing being played. The game that doesn't use civ specific abilities and units (non-UU game). The Colossus is THE cheapest to build wonder and in the non-UU game building ANY wonder triggers a GA.

The three second age wonders you list are really only good in a non-timed game. Even with accelerated production it would takes two players making an early alliance and coordinated research to reach the underlying tech with sufficient time to build the wonder and get much uses out of it.
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Old February 7, 2003, 18:46   #6
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During an end game rush to expand boaders and win a points victory,when time is runnig out, many things happen. Usually war is not a solution,as the window of oportunity has closed. Mass setteler expansion seems to be the common strategy i 've wittnessed.However ,if land is not available the only place to expand is out to sea.The little thought of library and collosem are easy sources for expanding boarders.Certainly any wonderwill only help this also.This would require some forethought as wonders dont grow overnite. A bonus from the planning of late expansion occures with Wonders. After 1000 years the cultural effects of Wonders are doubled. Even the early built, now obsolete,Great Wall still is a major contributor to the survival and /or victory of a team/player.Build long and prosper....
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Old February 10, 2003, 02:58   #7
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Fried-Psitalon:

I think you do a better job than the Prima guys, If you ever publish a strategy guide, I'll buy it.

Your other thread (on civs) was quite fantastic too.
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Old February 10, 2003, 20:53   #8
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One more thing I was thinking about. I know this doesn't come under the Great Wonder label but it's probably the most useful thing you can build and that is the Forbidden Palace. The bonus to wiping out corruption is tremendous and really turbocharges your effectiveness.

I think that in shorter 1-2 hour games that it might not be worthwhile but in longer games it will really make a difference to get it going sooner rather than later.
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