February 8, 2003, 03:29
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#31
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Local Time: 11:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Is there REALLY any chance that a far left liberal will be able to change the conservative United States?
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“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 8, 2003, 03:30
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#32
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President of the OT
Local Time: 09:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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Quote:
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Originally posted by cinch
No kidding! You are like the anti-Chretien. Which is why I assume you feel right at home in our fair province.
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My province is not my country...
My province is fine, it's the pinheads in the federal government in Ottawa that alienate me.
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PS: Damn your Flames! Why can Iginla only turn it on when it hurts us the most?!
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Well, he's from Edmonton. He wants to see you hurt more than we do.
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February 8, 2003, 03:36
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#33
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Warlord
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 131
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Quote:
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Is there REALLY any chance that a far left liberal will be able to change the conservative United States?
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Sure, there's a chance, presuming public opinion ever swings that way. I don't think there's any reason to assume that, because the population leans to the right at the moment, public opinion will definitely stay that way, in perpetuity...
Sure, it's not a very big chance, but still...
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February 8, 2003, 03:41
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#34
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King
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 2,954
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thats the interesting thing imran. i feel so disconnected from the rest of the country its almost as if im not living in america. the only thing that keeps me realizing that i am are the taxes and social secuirity i pay, and the Federal Government not accepting our states passage of prop 215.
Im not a far left liberal...maybe compared to your far right conservatism i am. its all a matter of perspective.
__________________
"I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger
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February 8, 2003, 03:46
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#35
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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Yes, we need to secede from Texas and the USA. Long live the Austin Commune!
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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February 8, 2003, 03:49
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#36
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Local Time: 11:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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Im not a far left liberal...maybe compared to your far right conservatism i am.
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If you pine for San Francisco law, then you are a far-left liberal to the rest of the country. The rest of the country doesn't even consider San Fran in the same ballpark as the rest of us.
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Yes, we need to secede from Texas and the USA. Long live the Austin Commune!
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Then the troops bust up your little 'party'  .
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 8, 2003, 03:55
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#37
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
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But the troops would be so impressed by our revolution that they'd join our cause.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
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February 8, 2003, 04:00
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#38
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Local Time: 11:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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touche
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 8, 2003, 04:20
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#39
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And no, I've never been alienated by my country. But I wonder, if you do feel alienated by your country why do you persist in staying? I mean, wouldn't it be logical that you'd go to somewhere where you wouldn't feel alienated?
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Maybe it's because in spite of the alienation that gays and lesbian suffer, they are still most comfortable living in a country of their native culture?
Yeah -- I suppose other countries like Australia, Canada, or United Kingdom would not be as great of a culture shock in adjustment for American gays and lesbians . . . but still, what gives you the right to judge minority groups who have a legitimate reason to feel alienated by demanding "can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen?"
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STFU and then GTFO!
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February 8, 2003, 04:23
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#40
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Local Time: 11:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Because it makes no sense to stay in a country that you don't feel welcome in when there are others out there that you might.
It seems kind of... well.... dumb.
Especially when you are so outside the mainstream that it is reasonable to conclude that things will never swing your way in your lifetime.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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February 8, 2003, 04:31
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#41
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Emperor
Local Time: 10:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Illinois
Posts: 8,595
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Because it makes no sense to stay in a country that you don't feel welcome in when there are others out there that you might.
It seems kind of... well.... dumb.
Especially when you are so outside the mainstream that it is reasonable to conclude that things will never swing your way in your lifetime.
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Minority groups suffer discrimination historically in the United States, and in more subtle ways continues today. Yet, immigrants of minority groups continue to arrive in the United States, and American citizens belonging to minority groups choose to stay in their native country -- United States. Because they struggle towards the ideals of the United States in spite of the obstacles.
As an individual gay man, I am not constantly having this feeling of alienation -- it comes and goes, and usually is not that strong of a feeling. I am optimistic that United States will catch up with some of the other Western nations in acknowledging the human dignity of homosexuals.
I think those who do not belong to a minority group have a much easier time shrugging and say, "well why not just leave to live in a foreign culture and a foreign society?"
I do not want to disown American culture and it's ideals -- I want to struggle for them.
I'm not going to let homophobics force me to forsake my own country and give up any hope in overcoming obstacles they put up in front of us.
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STFU and then GTFO!
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February 8, 2003, 04:33
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#42
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Deity
Local Time: 09:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: of naught
Posts: 21,300
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That was a very enlightened thing to say Imran. Where exactly do you think gays would be accepted without reservation?
So, only the mainstream are welcome in America? I guess I have misjudged. But maybe it is just some twerp spouting off.
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(")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.
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February 8, 2003, 04:36
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#43
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President of the OT
Local Time: 09:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 40,843
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I don't think attitudes towards gays are any different between the western US and western Canada, at least...
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"I'll never doubt you again when it comes to hockey, [Prince] Asher." - Guynemer
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February 8, 2003, 06:41
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#44
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Prince
Local Time: 10:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Posts: 687
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How could I not feel alienated? I'm a leftist in the western world  .
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I AM.CHRISTIAN
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February 8, 2003, 06:47
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#45
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King
Local Time: 08:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seattle Washington
Posts: 2,954
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as i said imran, its a matter of perspective. and no i dont want san francisco law.
san francisco law perpetuates homelessness with 300 dollar a month handouts. san francisco has a lot of problems stemming from an over liberalization of the city government. They let any stupid liberal special interest group pull them around with monetary sums
admittedly there are some good points like medical benefits for gay and lesbian couples, but then there are stupid things like the city paying for city workers sex change operations.
so imran, it is a matter of perspective.
__________________
"I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
'I'm fairly certain that a ban on me punching you in the face is not a "right" worth respecting." - loinburger
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February 8, 2003, 08:17
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#46
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Emperor
Local Time: 18:53
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: A pub.
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
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there are stupid things like the city paying for city workers sex change operations.
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you're kidding... right?
and to the question:
Nope. I always try to fix it. Getting 'alienated' is moral chest thumping imo.
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