Dedicate Bush a poem!

axi · February 7, 2003, 22:55

I dedicate this poem to G.W. Bush and his golden wings...

I will try to translate. It was written by one of the greatest Greek poets of the 20th century, who died in 1928

Quote:

Êùíóôáíôßíïò Ã. ÊáñõùôÜêçò

ÓÔÏ ÁÃÁËÌÁ ÔÇÓ ÅËÅÕÈÅÑÉÁÓ ÐÏÕ ÖÙÔÉÆÅÉ ÔÏÍ ÊÏÓÌÏ

ËåõôåñéÜ, ËåõôåñéÜ ó÷ßæåé, äáãêÜíåé
ôïõò ïõñáíïýò ôï óôÝììá óïõ. Ôï öùò óïõ,
÷ùñßò íá êáßåé, ôõöëþíåé ôï ëáü óïõ.
Ðåôáëïýäåò ÷ñõóÝò ïé ÁìåñéêÜíïé,
ëïãáñéÜæïõí, ðüóá äïëÜñéá êÜíåé
óÞìåñá ôï õðåñïýóéï ìÝôáëëü óïõ.

ËåõôåñéÜ, ËåõôåñéÜ, èá ó' áãïñÜóïõí
Ýìðïñïé êáé êïíóüñôéá êé åâñáßïé.
Åßíáé ðïëëÜ ôïõ áéþíïò ìáò ôá ÷ñÝç,
ðïëëÝò ïé áìáñôßåò, ðïõ èá äéáâÜóïõí
ïé ãåíåÝò, üôáí óå ðáñïìïéÜóïõí
ìå ôï ðñïôñáßôï ôïõ Dorian Gray.

ËåõôåñéÜ, ËåõôåñéÜ, óå íïóôáëãïýíå,
ìáêñéíÜ äÜóç, ñçìáãìÝíïé êÞðïé,
üóïé Üíèñùðïé ðñïóäÝ÷ïíôáé ôç ëýðç
óáí Ýðáèëï ôïõ áãþíïò, êáé ìï÷èïýíå,
êáé ôç æùÞ ôïõò åîáêïëïõèïýíå,
íåêñïß ðïõ ç êáèéÝñùóéò ôïõ ëåßðåé.

Konstantinos G. Karyotakis
To the Statue of Liberty that illuminates the world

Freedom, Freedom you crown
it tears, it bites the skies. Your light
without scorching, it blinds your people.
The Americans, golden butterflies,
are calculating how many dollars
costs today your supersubstantial metal.

Freedom, freedom, you will be bought
by merchants and consortia and jews.
Many are the debts of our century
many the sins that the generations
will read when they will compare you
to the portrait of Dorian Gray.

Freedom, Freedom, you're being missed,
by remote forests, by destitute gardens,
by all the people that accept sorrow,
as the prize of the fight, and toil,
and go on with their life,
dead, lacking consecration.

-------------------------------------
Let's get yours!

Bereta_Eder · February 7, 2003, 23:01

It (necessairily) misses a lot in the translation but it is a good translation.

You know what they say... "poetry is not translated, it is re-written"

Pekka · February 7, 2003, 23:06

Bush Bush I love you so
I can't wait to get all gun ho
390 billion dollars is not enough
We need all the choppers to be tough

From Iraq to North Korea
That is a good idea
From Saudi Arabia to Syria
They all match our criteria

Bush Bush I love you so
I really really want to go
We will be prepared for bad times
Not waiting for more terrorists crimes

From Somalia to Iran
That is what we agreed upon
From Libya to Pakistan
Let's finish what they began

Pekka · February 7, 2003, 23:07

Damn it.. my poem actually sounds like anti-war stuff... AAARGH! A sad failure..

Bereta_Eder · February 7, 2003, 23:09

actually that's a great ANTI-war poem Pekka

MosesPresley · February 7, 2003, 23:10

THE ALIENS
Charles Bukowski
from The Last Night Of The Earth Poems

you may not believe it
but there are people
who go through life with
very little
friction of distress.
they dress well, sleep well.
they are contented with
their family
life.
they are undisturbed
and often feel
very good.
and when they die
it is an easy death, usually in their
sleep.

you may not believe
it
but such people do
exist.

but i am not one of
them.
oh no, I am not one of them,
I am not even near
to being
one of
them.
but they
are there

and I am
here.

Pekka · February 7, 2003, 23:12

paiktis22, yeah.. I should keep my mouth shut

MosesPresley · February 7, 2003, 23:14

One more:

The Genius of the Crowd
Charles Bukowski

there is enough treachery, hatred violence absurdity in the average
human being to supply any given army on any given day

and the best at murder are those who preach against it
and the best at hate are those who preach love
and the best at war finally are those who preach peace

those who preach god, need god
those who preach peace do not have peace
those who preach love do not have love

beware the preachers
beware the knowers
beware those who are always reading books
beware those who either detest poverty
or are proud of it
beware those quick to praise
for they need praise in return
beware those who are quick to censor
they are afraid of what they do not know
beware those who seek constant crowds for
they are nothing alone
beware the average man the average woman
beware their love, their love is average
seeks average

but there is genius in their hatred
there is enough genius in their hatred to kill you
to kill anybody
not wanting solitude
not understanding solitude
they will attempt to destroy anything
that differs from their own
not being able to create art
they will not understand art
they will consider their failure as creators
only as a failure of the world
not being able to love fully
they will believe your love incomplete
and then they will hate you
and their hatred will be perfect

like a shining diamond
like a knife
like a mountain
like a tiger
like hemlock

their finest art

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 01:04

Forgot to say that nomatter how great a poet Karyotakis may have been and nomatter that the poem was written before 1928,

this

Quote:

Originally posted by axi
Freedom, freedom, you will be bought
by merchants and consortia and jews.

is slander.

MrFun · February 8, 2003, 01:16

Any poem I would want to dedicate to baby Bush would not be of appropriate language for Apolyton.

Guynemer · February 8, 2003, 01:48

Bush haiku

Born on third base, and
You think you hit a triple.
Not too bright, are ya?

Combat Ingrid · February 8, 2003, 01:50

Hmm... I guess I can dedicate this one to mr Bush

Oh freddled gruntbuggly thy micturations are to me
As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
Groop I implore thee my foonting turlingdromes.
And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
See if I don't!

Mr. President · February 8, 2003, 02:00

Can I dedicate something written (actually sung) by the band Texas?

You can say what you want, but it won't change my mind,
I feel the same about you.
You can tell me your reasons but it won't change my feelings,
I feel the same about you.

Bring back Bill Clinton!

Velociryx · February 8, 2003, 02:07

After what I just read re: the "strengthening" of the "Patriot" act, I would not waste my time coming up with a dirty limerick about our "president."

-=Vel=-

axi · February 8, 2003, 12:33

Quote:

Forgot to say that nomatter how great a poet Karyotakis may have been and nomatter that the poem was written before 1928,

this

Freedom, freedom, you will be bought
by merchants and consortia and jews.

is slander.

Howso? It's a stereoptype word for the era. Don't forget the poem needs to rhyme (in Greek "jews" rhymes with "debts")

axi · February 8, 2003, 12:35

Btw, Moses Priesley, two thumbs up! :d: :d:

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 17:26

Axi,

Don't know just is.

True it was not a big deal back then and is not a big deal now either unfortunately. Still there's something about generalizing over a whole group of people based only in which god they believe to (or not) that is rather discomforting.

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 17:31

BTW Bukowski is one sick old porn man.

I read two of his books. There are all about screwing and a faux sence of "escaping" the microastiki (lower middle class?) mentality of security, order and conservative values.

example of his writing: "So I went back to my hotel, and a student came to tell me she liked my books, so I ****ed her"

And that theme (even written exactly the same) seems to encompass 90% of the 2 books of him I read.

Better go with Vocacius - more diversity and more interesting

Didn't know he wrote "poetry" too

Az · February 8, 2003, 17:40

Quote:

Freedom, freedom, you will be bought
by merchants and consortia and jews.

great, just GREAT!

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 17:49

It is great and so true... even more so considering it was written in the beggining of the last century. It is almost... prophetic..!

I just happen to disagree with the all encompassing last word.

Az · February 8, 2003, 18:12

I think that it shows racism, and prejudice. You cannot separate the song into parts. Does Mr. Karyotakis think that jews are bad?

And the fact "It rhymes", and ESPECIALLY "It's a jewish stereotype", isn't an excuse. It's not like it's like it's ancient history. This was the 20th century.

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 18:23

Well, d'uh!

That's what I am saying too: that the word "jews" in that verse is unacceptable.

I was surprised to see you disagree. Your last post's irony was absolut and it worked!

Now in the question about is it possible to differantiate between a slander against a group of people and the overal value of the rest of the poem, I'd say a cautious yes, provided the slander is pointed out. And that it actually serves the opposite of what the writer wants. (i.e. see it for what it is: a slander, instead of the "truth" (in the poet's mind)

Lawrence of Arabia · February 8, 2003, 18:37

'If you're happy and you know it, bomb Iraq' (sung to the tune of if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands')[with texas accent]

If we cannot find Osama, bomb Iraq
If the markets hurt yo mam, bomb Iraq
If the terrorists are Saudi
And the bank takes back your Audi
And the TV shows are bawdy
Bomb Iraq

If the corporate scandals growin', bomb Iraq
And you ties to the are showin', bomb Iraq
If the smoking gun ain't smokin'
We don't care, and we're not jokin'
That Saddam will sson be croakin'
Bomb Iraq

Even if we have no allies, bomb Iraq
From the sand dunes to the valleys, bomb Iraq
So the hell with the inspections;
Let's look tough for the elections
Close your mind and take directions
Bomb Iraq

While the globe is slowly warming, bomb Iraq
Yay! The clouds of war are storming, bomb Iraq
If t he ozone hole is growing,
Some things we prefer not knowing
(Though our ignorance is showing)
Bomb Iraq

So! Here's one for dear old daddy, bomb Iraq
From his favorite little laddie, bomb Iraq
Saying no wouild look like treason
It's the Hussein hunting season
Even if we have no reason,
Bomb Iraq

Az · February 8, 2003, 18:45

It's great that you are opposed to this generalization,but...

Pointed out by whom? If we analyse the poem, in regards to the feelings the poet wanted to pass to the readers, we'll see in the first paragraph ( I forgot the correct english word for this ):

Quote:

Freedom, Freedom you crown
it tears, it bites the skies. Your light
without scorching, it blinds your people.
The Americans, golden butterflies,
are calculating how many dollars
costs today your supersubstantial metal.

without getting into the literary analysis, of metaphores and artistic means we can see that the poet is criticizing the Statue of Liberty which symbolyzes the US, for placing greed as a part of it's culture. He clearly places himself on the side of the "common people", sides with the working class. He's clearly a socialist, and that, of course, is cool with me.

next:

Quote:

Freedom, freedom, you will be bought
by merchants and consortia and jews.
Many are the debts of our century
many the sins that the generations
will read when they will compare you
to the portrait of Dorian Gray.

Here, he continues talking to Lady Liberty, the US, and says that It's controlled by what for him as a protector of the working class are "the enemy", merchants, consortia ( corporations). All those that have to be destroyed by a revolutionary effort ( "the fight", paragraph #3, and him being a extreme-left winger). And guess who's also to be destroyed? The Jews.

I think that the case is closed.

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 19:01

That's one interpratation of course. And the beauty of art is the different meanings each gains according to his own experiances/realities/ways of thinking.

While one cannot say that one interpratation is "wrong" (the main beauty of it is what feelings it can evoke to each individual) I have a different interpratation about the 3rd paragraph.

I interpret the last paragraph where it points out that freedom is "missed" and that people that "fought" for freedom but got only in return turmoil and suffering as the various peoples that indeed fought for freedom but were unable to gain it.

About the merchants corporations that buy and sell freedom I agree completely and believe it is inginious and almost prophetic writing especially for the early 20th century.

About the "jews" being included in there too I think this is racist, a slander and completely unacceptable and indeed shows the writers feelings about people of jewish religion.

Also a couple of other points:
_his saying that corporations and merchants buy and sell freedom does not necessairily make him extreme left wing IMO. Just a thinking man.

_he does not speak of anything having to do with the destruction of those two or the "jews".

Still that this is a racist, slander in there?
No question about it and no excuse about it either IMO. And the only thing it accomplishes is lowering the esteem of that poet to my eyes at least.

Az · February 8, 2003, 19:24

I'll continue the discussion tomorrow.

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 19:27

I sincerely hope I wasn't the reason you suddendly felt all sleepy

See ya!

axi · February 8, 2003, 19:59

Oh come on, Azazel, your comments are totally off the mark! Destruction of the Jews - get real!

First of all Karyotakis was no socialist. He was a petty-bourgeois civil servant. His philosophy was incompatible with socialism because he was a romantic and a pessimist. In the last part of the poem, he sees only the vanity and futility of the modern way of life, the life of "freedom", as freedom has become. The last verse is totally pessimist.

Needless to say, the guy commited suicide eventually, in 1928.

Bereta_Eder · February 8, 2003, 20:10

Quote:

Tombs

What peace reigns here!
As though the tombs also smile,
while the dead speak quietly
in capitals, deep in the dark.

From there they want to rise with
simple words into our peaceful hearts.
But their complaint, or what it is they say,
- they've gone so far away - is useless.

It's all there is, there, two crossed bars
of wood, Martzokis. There Vasiliadis2,
just a big stone book.

And a plaque half-hidden in the grass
- thus now it's symbolised by Hades -
there's Lamaris, a forgotten poet.

and other joyful poems are to be found here

http://users.ox.ac.uk/~shil0124/poems/nepenthe.htm

A propos I tried to melodize a poem by Karyotakis a long time ago. Forgot the title of it now. The friends' feat in the countryside table. Punk rock song Karyotakis

Well, it sounded good. To me and 2 others at least