AU204: Spoilers, Reports and Comments - Page 2

Dominae · February 9, 2003, 11:23

When I redistributed starting locations, China indeed ended up at that horrible spot, which was just fine for purposes of creating a KAI (Killer AI) out of France. The Greeks were originally on that island across the channel, but I switched them over to be on the starting continent (China would have taken their spot, in normal circumstances). In previous distributions, that island was in fact was left unclaimed (with two civs on the start continent), but China got a better spot a bit south. So although I did sort of engineer the Greek situation, it could have happened randomly, only with a better China. I figured there was no harm in crafting a "best of both worlds" scenario, so to speak.

Dominae

yxhuvud · February 9, 2003, 11:54

I tried this at deity. I received the english.

That was kinda hard, since while I actually managed to outREX the greeks thanks to a free city in the hills in the nw, I just couldn't build enough troops to break through.

Sure, I could raze a city or two, but then my territory were flooded by hoplites and things just collapsed.

I did one error in the beginning though, in that I missed that a settler that was crossing the mountains, that I could have delayed with my scouts, giving my settler enough time to reach the area. This gave my territory a terrible shape, and I also lost a good spot.

I can't claim that I would have won if it hadn't been the greeks that was my neighour, but I would definitely have taken the home continent.

I guess I'll go back to my other deity game, where I am doing infantry-artillery warfare in teh modern age, and might have won if I wasn't so goddamn behind in culture. I actually have been into the tech race from the beginning and am presently a few techs ahead, despite being only the 3rd biggest power, landwise.

Jawa Jocky · February 9, 2003, 12:19

I get the Great Lighthouse from my 1st Japanese city. I foget the movement penalty the AU has for Galleys in the ocean and make a mistake on my 1st turn on additional expoloring.

Jawa Jocky · February 9, 2003, 12:23

My invasion is running out of steam. I get my 1st GL from a battle and use it to rush a Palace in my 2nd Japanese city. I wanted a better location for my new Capital but I don't have enough muscle to move inward. I sue for peace and get construction to move into the middle ages.

badman · February 9, 2003, 14:35

After conquering Egypt I finished the game playing as a builder and won by space race.
In the end, only 3 civs still were alive and one of them (Egypt) was erduced to several small island cities.
Babylon was still powerful but AI civs tend to do horribly when playing 1on1, so I won by space race before Babylon could leave the industrial times.

Jawa Jocky · February 9, 2003, 16:10

I'm trying to make it accross the ocean. These guys all sunk.

Jawa Jocky · February 9, 2003, 16:11

one of these did make it. I'm now in a postion to tech broker. Expect I'm behind everyone.

Jawa Jocky · February 9, 2003, 16:14

I gathered up some medevil inf. and took another Japanese city. However, I discovered a problem.

(Samauri Army)

Dominae · February 9, 2003, 16:25

Quote:

Originally posted by nbarclay
I finally figured out - and no guarantees that this isn't just coincidence - that galleys don't seem to sink if they end their turn moving from sea into an ocean tile.

I've lost a Galley in an Ocean tile, and am pretty sure it got there from Sea.

Quote:

(I first got a clue about that when a galley that got stuck ending its turn one early didn't sink.) Once I got the nerve, was just able to take advantage of that fact to make a suicide run to contact France. (I've never cared much for the galley sabotage in the AU mod to begin with, so I don't mind doing some experimentation that could be considered cheating to try to find a way to make it less crippling.)

I'm not sure I agree with you. Although this is mostly a learning experience, reloading to get what you want sort of breaks the community spirit here. I personally do not like the increased attack of Riflemen in the mod, but I'm not going to reload because of it. Considering that your experiment put you into contact with the other continent early, thereby generating a huge advantage, I'm not sure it was so harmless. Then again, you're right in saying that this would have been possible with the standard rules. This game just happens to accentuate why the mod change was made in the first place.

Dominae

Dominae · February 9, 2003, 16:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Jawa Jocky
(Samurai Army)

Most feared unit in the game in its time period? Good luck (I mean it)!

Dominae

nbarclay · February 9, 2003, 17:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae

I'm not sure I agree with you. Although this is mostly a learning experience, reloading to get what you want sort of breaks the community spirit here. I personally do not like the increased attack of Riflemen in the mod, but I'm not going to reload because of it. Considering that your experiment put you into contact with the other continent early, thereby generating a huge advantage, I'm not sure it was so harmless. Then again, you're right in saying that this would have been possible with the standard rules. This game just happens to accentuate why the mod change was made in the first place.

With the rifleman situation you describe, there is no way of knowing whether a rifleman's attack succeeded only because of the AU Mod rules change or whether he would have gotten lucky anyhow. With my situation, there is absolutely no doubt that I would have made contact under the standard rules, so my "cheating" essentially just reversed the rules change - only in such a way that I made contact a lot later and lost a galley in the process. If you think of me as playing with a modified version of the AU mod with the galley sabotage reversed, you get a picture that isn't too far off target.

Nathan

Dominae · February 9, 2003, 17:41

Hm, well we appear to running into problems of dissatisfaction with the AU mod. I'm inclined to stick the rules that come with the chosen scenario, since it makes the AARs and discussion much simpler. Just look at Jawa Jocky's attempts at crossing to the other continent in comparison to yours to see what I mean. I agree with you that this is not cheating, but the line is blurred.

Consider in a MP PBEM game, where you misclick a move action, perhaps seeing something you did not expect. Do you reload or play on? Some people consider reloading dishonest, others do not. How to agree, or resolve this? Similarly, your decision that the "Galley sabotage" change does not apply to you is difficult to assess.

Dominae

BigDork · February 9, 2003, 17:59

Well, I only got to play a little today. Japan is dead. I decided to get Egypt's help fighted the Japanese. Looking back I think this may have been a bad idea. I grabbed 3 out of 5 Japanese cities with Egypt getting the other two. I should have just gone it alone, but I was worried that Japan would get Egypt to fight against me and that would have been too much to handle. It was bad enough I barely had enough to take what I did.

So now it's about 1000ADish. Egypt is ahead of everyone tech wise by about 4 techs. They are about to get cavalry and after that I don't know if will want to pick a fight with them until I get riflemen. I'm currently building up berserkers for a major offensive. I already have about 25 knights close to the Egyptians and 5 caravels loaded with berserkers off the Egyptian coast. But I want to be sure I have enough. They seem to have a pretty big army. I think it's gonna be close.

France and Babylon keep going at it. France finished off China and actually just pulled ahead of Egypt points wise. I managed to pass Babylon within the last ten turns or so. I'm still within 40 points of the leader so I'm not to worried.

Tomorrow is a sleep day so I don't think I'm gonna get to play much. But when I can get back into it I plan on beating on the Egyptians some, extorting as much tech as possible, and then roughing up the French. I think I'm gonna have to bounce between the two civs to keep them from pulling away from me.

I'll post a screen later of how the world looks right now. I'm at work and do have the game handy. I have to say that I am really enjoying this game. It's my first try on Regent and I'm using the AU mod ontop of that. It's making for an actually challenging game for me. More to come.

BigD

nbarclay · February 9, 2003, 18:19

So much for my hope for a nice, easy, peaceful coast to victory. The French attacked me just a couple turns after my previous post, killing many of my workers and threatening my new core. I drafted infantry in practically every city in the former Babylonian core, counterattacked the French cavalry with cavalry on my own, and shored up my defenses. I also got an alliance with Egypt to ensure that France and Egypt would not trade their way ahead of me and hopefully draw a little bit of France's fire away from me. Babylon joined in on the French side (causing major happiness headaches) when I triggered a MPP killing wounded cavalry that had retreated into France.

Fortunately, the French suffered from a terminal case of bad timing. The attack came shortly after I discovered Motorized Transportation, and I quickly upgraded my galleon fleet to transports and shipped in my handful of tanks. I then rushed an airport in Babylon and built some airports at home to simplify the logistics of moving in additional tanks.

The French attack pressed on, but all it had left was footsoldiers. Musketeers pillaged across the desert of northern Babylon as they accompanied more modern forces, and my tanks did what damage they could before withdrawing to heal. A Stack of Doom finally reached its target (bypassing a heavily defended border town), but failed to penetrate my city's defenses.

I managed to clean up the remaining French invaders in my territory, and then it was my turn. Very slowly, my tanks, now supported by mechanised infantry, pushed into France. They would move into position to capture a city, take it, and then stop to heal before doing it again. (And my first attack on Paris failed miserably, with every tank in the attacking force injured but none killed.) After that, I brought in three armies trained in my military academy to give me a heavier striking force. The next attack on Paris succeeded.

There was also a humerous interlude when China's "mighty army" of spearmen, archers, horsemen, and even a chariot decided to join in the war on the French side. They provided some nice training for getting tanks upgraded to elite and for some conscript and regular mechanized infantry (upgraded and in some cases promoted from my original emergency conscripts).

I pushed a little north and west of Paris with my tanks, and then finally got Synthetic Fibers. All tanks not in an army, even the elites, were quickly upgraded, and France's remaining three continental cities didn't have a chance. Beijing also fell, its two remaining spearmen proving not to be the modern-armor-killing variety.

From there, it was just a matter of time and distance to get my forces to France's various island posessions. I now own all of France and China except for a single French city Egypt captured, and Egypt, Babylon, and I are the only nations still alive.

At one point, after extorting Rocketry from me right in the middle of our alliance against France, Egypt was within two techs of me. But Egypt changed to communism during the war while I managed to hang onto my republic, and that let me bring my lead back up to five techs.

The map below shows the area where the French war took place. Note that Egypt managed to capture Rouen from France during the war, the one city I don't control on the former French/Babylonian/Chinese continent. They also razed a city along the way, but I rebuilt it. (There are a bunch of cities where the name isn't showing for some reason, but they're cities I own, not ruins.)

Nathan

nbarclay · February 9, 2003, 20:09

I'm up to 1675 AD now and just finished off Babylon. I gave Egypt Babylon's last city because Egypt already had a city on the same island and I figured the fewer sources of potential conflict, the better. I'm doing a little 4-turn research now, albeit running a large deficit in the process. Egypt is still in Communism; I just hope the reason doesn't have anything to do with attacking me.

BigDork · February 10, 2003, 14:45

Hi everybody...

Well, it's 1535 AD and things are not going as planned. As stated in my last post, I was about to go to war with Egypt. Well I decided to investigate a few cities first to see what I was up against. I definatly wasn't expecting Egypt to have as big of a military as they have. So I decided to modify my plans. I pulled all my offensive units away from the Egyptian front and put them on the boarder with Germany. This included about 25 knights, 10 med infantry and 5 caravels filled with berserkers. Also I was filling more caravels up with berserkers on the home island. I also rearranged my defensive units inside of the cities just incase Germany launched a counter-offensive.

Well, when all my units were about as far away as they could be and about 2 turns before I declare war on Germany the frickin Egyptians declare war on me!!!

With most of my defensive units in the German boarder cities it was a close thing that first turn. Luckily the AI didn't send all it had the first turn or I probably would have lost 2 or 3 cities. So I rushed all I had back up to the Egyptian front. But we've been at war for about 100-150 years now and almost all of it has been a defensive war for me. I got France, Babylon and Germany in the war on my side. France and Babylon I got in the war more to try and slow them down a little and perhaps distract the Egyptians. I knew they wouldn't be doing much on the main continent. Germany has been proving very useful though. Egypt has been focusing more on them than me as of late, probably because Germany is weaker. Germany just lost Hamburg last turn to Egypt. Luckily I just happened to see this coming and parked some knights outside of Hamburg on a mountain

. So my next turn Hamburg should be mine(see screenshot).

Out of 25 knights and 10 med infantry I have about 7 knights and 1 med infantry left. I've been using them to attack the Egyptian units as they cross my territory. Unfortunately those Egyptian units are taking their toll on my countryside. They've pillaged a lot. But my berserkers have been super-useful. So far about the only offense I've done has been with the berserkers. I sent them up the coast deep into Egyptian territory to cause some havoc. I took out size 6, 8, and two size 12 cities. I didn't bring any defensive units and fearing a flip back to Egypt I just razed them but that had to hurt Egypt a little.

I'm starting to build up my forces again thanks to my golden age. There's about 15 knights on the way from the home island that I'm gonna use to push into Egypt. I'm also rebuilding my force of berserkers. There's two more size 12 cities I want to hit and if they are anything like the last I took out I'm gonna need about 4-8 berserkers per city. What really ticks me off is that I've fought for at least a third of the game so far and have yet to get a Great Leader

.

France has definatly pulled away as the #1 civ. They are about 100 points away from me now. I left Babylon in the dust thanks to France beating on them seriously and I'm catching up to Egypt fast. Hopefully I'll pass Egypt soon, just as soon as I start my own offensive. Tech wise I'm about 3 away from France and probably 1 or 2 away from Egypt. I'm about to finish metallurgy and then on to military tradition. I think(and hope) Egypt is going after magnetism so soon They'll be facing a swarm of Viking cavalry.

Well, I'm done for now. Gotta sleep a little before work. I'm having a ball with this. Definatly the most challenging game I've ever played. I'm pretty sure I can deal with Egypt but I can't even imagine having to go after France. Maybe I'll try to beat them to Alpha Centari. Nah...Vikings spill blood, it's what they do. Well, the screen I'm posting shows my little assult force right outside Hamburg. Above that is the current score. Greece, Japan, and China are out of it. More later...

BigD

BigDork · February 10, 2003, 14:48

Hi everybody...

Sorry there's no screenshot, I'm having a bit of trouble. I'm doing everything just like my others but I'm getting an error. Hrm...I'll figure it out later.

The message says my screenshot has to be 800x0. How do I do that?

BigD

Dominae · February 10, 2003, 14:54

BigD, you have to resize your image to 800x600 or less. This is easy to do in Photoshop, but I'm not sure how in Paint.

Dominae

Chemical Ollie · February 10, 2003, 17:20

You guys seems to have fun. I wish I could play this game.

(Now I have only 182 spams left to write before I get my custom avatar.)

Konquest02 · February 10, 2003, 20:34

When stuck on a small island with the Greeks...

When I first looked at AU 204, I thought it would be a great learning experience to play a civilization I rarely play. Unfortunately, I was assigned the Russians, whom I played in GOTM 15 over at CFC (well, in fact, I only played the Quick Start Challenge...). I wanted something new.
So I restarted... and was this time assigned the English.

But I decided to play on, the other possible solution was to stop playing Civ3, because I would step down in front of an interresting challenge...

Having read Dominae's disclaimer when I downloaded the game, I stepped down to Regent, as I have not mastered Monarch yet...

Despite my initial reaction about getting the English, I am now pretty pleased about getting them. First, they are expansionnist, which I think, may have been a decisive factor in my early game. Secondly, they are commercial, which allow decent growth with relatively few corruption. But most of all, they are pretty lucky .

On my frist hut, I got warrior code. This is not particularly great, but when my first scout found the Greeks, I decided to rush them with my newly developed archers before they could build any hoplites... Then, I popped a warrior, posting him near Athens to watch whenever a settler would leave the town.

With two cities in place, I decided to go for it. I built 5 archers and massed them on the hill south of Athens. I knew the Greeks had built their first settler, but it hadn't left the city (probably waiting for an escort...) The turn on which I declared war, a hoplite appeared on Athens. I moved two of my archers within range but got destroyed by warriors attacking from Athens. The others were on the hill, fortified. When I attacked, I lost one to the hoplite, but won the next battle. Then my conscript warrior defeated the 1hp warrior left in Athens.

Konquest02 · February 10, 2003, 20:59

My island cleared from the Greeks, I could now expand peacefully. I built as fast as I could and beelined for Map Making in order to get contact with everybody as fast as I could. Which was a mistake as you will see later.

Upon my discovery of Map Making, I built a galley and made contact with the Japanese, Germans and Egyptians. They were pretty active diplomatically... What could you expect from Bizzie and Toku...?

Japan went beserk on Germany, sometimes helped by Egypt. I signed an alliance with Bizzie against the Japs for all their techs (3 or 4), gold and maps... I went through 10 turns of non-war with the Japanese then signed a peace treaty for a couple of gold...

I had a good prebuild for the Great Library, but I got nailed by 4 turns!! by Hammurabi, which is quickly becoming a killer in my game (although I have not met him yet...)

This is where I am now and since a couple of days... Since I have an exam tomorrow, I think I shall end my brief "in-action" report and go study instead...

It should be an easy exam though...

--Kon--

laissez-faire · February 11, 2003, 02:46

Today is a holiday (here) so I finally got a chance to sit down and at least start this class. Many thanks to Dominae for setting it up. I enjoy the AU games about five times more than I do regular games. And, they take me about five times as long to complete. Why? Because I’m on stage! I’m performing for the crowd! So this installation of the series was just as crucial as ever. I needed a good roll to start out the many random series of events. I needed a good civ. So, I fired up the box, gave the disk a whirl, and rolled the dice. The gods of civilization have bestowed upon me. . .the Koreans.

But fear not! The Koreans are a great people. Just because they got the short end of the stick in the world of Firaxis should be no cause to abandon them. And so it wasn’t long before Seoul was founded in 3950BC on the banks of Chungju Lake.

I’ll try to post my AAR in pieces as they occur rather than mass updates, but it’s hard for me to pull away. I often forget to take screenies of the maps for my animated .gif at the end of the game much less take a break for an AAR chapter. At any rate, here goes. . .

Meet the Koreans

Despite Dominae’s warning on the difficulty of this game and despite the fact that I’ve only recently begun to win on Emporer level with the civ and settings of my choice, the machismo within me took over and I selected Emporer level. Immediately I’m off to a slightly less than ideal start.

Six turns into the game I pop the southern goody hut only to get whaled on by barbs; not to mention I see the Greeks who already have a hoplite coming over the Western Range. Ten turns into the game, they have TWO hoplites and a warrior

. The barbs from the ‘goody’ hut killed my warrior, slaughtered my worker and took 19 gold (100%) of my treasury.

3350BC – The Greeks have sent a welcoming party, but they’re not carrying olives. An emissary from their party of two warriors and a hoplite informs me that there is now a state of war between Korea and Greece. But Seoul, defended by only one warrior, is a brave city and fends off the two warriors. The hoplite heads for my only mine (still no worker at this point). A second hoplite is coming quickly. The future looks bleak for the Koreans, but nonetheless their people are faithful and have risen to clear a lawn for a great temple monument to Wang Kon. One lone warrior defender separates me from an embarassing 12-turn loss.

3300BC – Out of desperation, I send a warrior to pop the NE goody hut only to find it long deserted.

3250BC – The party of two hoplites wiped out my mine and both have begun a retreat. Is this the chance that Korea has been waiting for? A chance to rebuild? A chance for peace?

The Greek Retreat

laissez-faire · February 11, 2003, 02:47

2900BC – A second warrior tears across the Valley of Wonsan (foreshadowing?) to the north of the Greek border on an exhausting mission to find friends, but ends up lonely. Desperate for company, he enters a third goody hut! But again is soon surrounded by barbs. That’s three goody huts for a non-expansionistic civ on a small island: two with barbs, one deserted.

However, our man is a future politician as he successfully sweet-talked the barbs to spare his meager life and head for the more fertile Greek lands to the south.

2850BC – For all my gold (14) Alexander accepts peace; and thus the First Greek War is over. Korea begins a time of peace, building, and quasi-prosperity.

2390BC – Alexander’s people have mastered the ability to move using a wheel as well as a basic code of military. He’s unwilling to share however as I have nothing left after centuries of devastation. The Korean people are poor and backward.

2230BC – Stumbling upon a hill in Greek territory, the Koreans see Athens for the first time – a beautiful and modern city nestled on the west coast next to the mouth of the River Eridanos; truly a cosmopolitain feel! Much to Wang Kon’s dismay, Greek fashions begin to appear on the streets of Seoul. Reports from other journeys reveal our world is small and all we know.

2110BC – I told you they were scientific! The Koreans have discovered a form of written communication and have received several sturdy offers from the Greeks: A) The Wheel and some gold; or B) Ceremonial Burial and Warrior Code. The clock is ticking and I sense I don’t have time to wait around for the benefits the wheel might bring, plus with all my bad luck I’d likely be miles away from the nearest horse. I settle for CB and WC, plus a handful of gold.

1950BC – The Koreans build their first archer. He’s a shabby warrior and pales in comparison to the glitzy bronze glamour of the hoplite; but Wang Kon gets an idea in his crafty head: Quantity over quality! And thus all production is concentrated on bows and arrows only.

1600BC – Our traveling friends report of a colossal bronze statue just constructed on the icy shores of Sparta. Rumor has its existence as being so immense that local merchants are doing twice the normal trade. The naturally commercial Korean people are already piecemealing a plan to take advantage of such a wonder.

1375BC – The world is small and seemingly full of Greeks. Wang Kon is not a forgiving person and the Korean people have not forgotten the atrocities committed by Greek soldiers over 2,000 years ago. The Koreans hate the Greeks, much moreso than vice versa. And so the foothills of the Cheju Mountains (more seer work?) just east of Athens have been the gathering place for Korean soldiers for centuries. At last they have found organization; and their ranks form into a stack. The Athenian Wars begin (a.k.a. the Second Greek War).

Wang Kon’s Revenge!

laissez-faire · February 11, 2003, 02:48

1325BC – A fifty-year siege and half the Korean army later, Athens falls. The vicorious armies enter the city and find a brave Greek leader attempting to blend into the crowd. His greatness is obvious though, and he cannot hide. He might have done wonderful things—amazing things—for the Greek people; but unfortunately his name was never caught, and he was offed almost immediately.

1100BC – The Korean dream of getting rid of an ill-placed Thermoplyae is realized.

950BC – A new dawn has broken on the Isle of Koryo. In the spirit of my game, I’m making this last post and heading out for a sizzling iron bowl of Bibimpab for lunch.

The New Korea – 950BC

laissez-faire · February 11, 2003, 06:46

I've played a little more. I agree with an earlier poster in saying the early game has been loads of fun. Unfortunately, the more I find out about the world, the more I dread the second "half" of the game.

Dominae, you mentioned that you intended to create Japan as a KAI by placing Germany in the desert and France as a KAI by placing China in the hills. Those both failed to materialize in my game. Instead what I am up against are one KAI (Egypt--the smaller and smarter one) and one BAMFAI (Babylon--the big dumb brute, with emphasis on big).

Since the fall of Greece, there have only been a few minor skirmishes as I raced to see what else was out there. One of those skirmishes resulted in the Great Lighthouse of Berlin falling into my hands. Prior to that, I kept hearing of unheard-of civs falling into eradication--first the Japanese (at the Korean hand

), then the Chinese (who?), and the French (who?).

Finally the GL put me in contact with Hammurabi. I met his grinning mug cautiously, and could see chunks of Chinese and French caught in his teeth. He had grown huge. Tech brokering was not an option, however, since he was broke and behind the other continent.

I'm technologically on par with Hammurabi, but Cleo is leaving me in the dust. She suckered me into a war against the Germans by offering me a little wine (I can never refuse a drink with that woman). Unfortunately she quickly eradicated Bizzie, and all I got was a lousy bunch of Hamburgers.

She may be more advanced than me, but my entire army of MedInf and Knights is poised to take three maybe four recently-acquired German cities from her in one turn. I'm in dire need of a palace flip (FP was GL-rushed in Cheju). For now I'll take a break and contemplate my next move.

The World According to Wang Kon in 1150AD

BigDork · February 11, 2003, 09:35

Hi everybody...

Well, here's the screenshot I promised in my previous post. It shows my attack force of knights about to take Hamburg from the Egyptians. Also notice the score. Before the Scandinavian-Egyptian war me, Joan, and Cleo were within 40 points. Not anymore. I might get a chance to play a little more today but I doubt it. Too much to do. More later...

BigD

Dominae · February 11, 2003, 10:34

Superb AAR laissez-faire! I'm quite impressed that you keep your high spirits even after losing your first Worker and Warrior (I would have thrown keyboard at the wall...).

Quote:

Originally posted by laissez-faire
Dominae, you mentioned that you intended to create Japan as a KAI by placing Germany in the desert and France as a KAI by placing China in the hills. Those both failed to materialize in my game. Instead what I am up against are one KAI (Egypt--the smaller and smarter one) and one BAMFAI (Babylon--the big dumb brute, with emphasis on big).

Peoples' games are varied enough to prove that my original plans did not materialize fully. That's fine, because if the KAI were the same in every game the AARs would have been clones. But one thing is for sure is that there is 1 and usually 2 KAI in each game. I'm guessing the following factors were at play:

1. Few neighbors. With 2 "potential" KAI on each continent (Egypt-Japan, France-Babylon) and no other close competition, the AIs are free to war, leaving one in the dust and one promoted to KAI. If there are other civs in close proximity, AI diplomacy really slows down the progress of war (if you know what I mean).

2. Reduced landmass. The game randomly selected 80% water. This means that one civ on each big continent had the incentive to conquer its neighbor. I believe this favored Egypt, as they could use their War Chariots to get a leg up sooner.

3. Reduced human interference. There's nothing like a experienced human hand to prevent KAIs from appearing. By secluding the human player, the KAIs had the opportunity to achieve their potential.

4. Amazing starts. Do CTRL-SHIFT-M at the next opportunity in the game to see what Egypt got (with the others not so far behind).

I would like to take credit for thinking of all of this, but sadly I cannot. But let's just say that you screenshot of a big red landmass (Babylon) and a big yellow one (Egypt) is exactly what I was hoping for.

Dominae

P.S: Good luck BigD!

Fosse · February 11, 2003, 12:15

Playing on Emporer. I don't have a screen shot here, so bear with me.

Things are going fairly well so far.
I've played to about 30 BC right now... and I'm not doing too badly. My random civ was - naturally - the Koreans, and I managed to snag the Great Library, buying almost every tech from the Greeks or Germans.

Greece started being a huge problem early on because their culture started robbing me of cities before I even discovered ceremonial burial. Once I discoverd Iron working (Great Library tech) I pillaged the one Greek source of it, defeated their standing army of swordsmen in the field, and then started taking cities (heavy losses, damn hoplites)... only to watch each city culturally flip after a turn or two, with my armies at the doorstep of Athens... GRRRR...

I built the Forbidden Palace in the center of the landmass, and used a leader to rush Sun Tzu.

All in all, things are going rather well, once I amass the forces to finish off the Greeks I'll be in a great position to launch an overseas invasion and relocate my palace to a bigger continent.

One problem though... I'm using the AUPTW 1.14 ruleset... but it seems to be using stock PTW rules...

I first noticed that stacks of Greek archers no longer took an initial shot at me, I opened the file in the editor, and lo and behold! None of those wonderful changes seemed to be in place, infantry is 6/10/1, musketeers 3/4/1...

Did I miss something?

Catt · February 11, 2003, 16:05

I played the AU Mod for PTW, Emperor level. The RNG (doesn’t seem very “R” with respect to civ choices, does it?

) gave me Catherine of Russia. Due to some crabby kids with stuffy noses, I was kept at home for much of the weekend and kept up late a night both Saturday and Sunday – I actually got to play and finish this one pretty quickly (for me). I’ll focus most attention on the very early game, where most all the action was for me, in an effort to convey my very early thought processes regarding use of random civ traits in a random world setting.

Part 1 of 11

A History of Russia
as told by Catt, advisor and historian to Catherine.

Russia – scientific and expansionist – what to do? The start spot certainly looked encouraging with a river, the coast, some game, some shielded grasslands and forests. Catherine settled at the start spot, before even moving our scout at all. Normally, a good Russian would move its scout to a nearby hill or mountain before settling, just to see if a tremendous start location might be just out of initial view, but this start was more than sufficient, and so Catherine turned her customary behavior around – settling, and hoping that the added map visibility from Moscow’s new borders would help pick a direction for the initial scout and initial worker actions. Establishing Moscow revealed a hut to the north. Moscow’s first citizen worked the forested game.

Catherine directed our scout west and then north one tile each, rather than march through the forest to reach the hut quickly. The scout would have likely gone west and north anyway – just based on our start position in the minimap. We wanted a better look at the immediate surroundings, and were willing to delay the hut for one turn to get such a look. The scout discovered coast to Moscow’s northwest – it was clearly sea coast (not a lake) since there were plentiful fish offshore. Was the Russian empire starting in an isthmus of some kind on larger landmasses, or was our world an archipelago?

Catherine figured archipelago was likely and set the Russian scientists, with a budget of 20% of Russian income, to researching Alphabet (40 turn pace). With knowledge of Bronze Working and Pottery, we already had the tools for both defense and growth – given the inherent Russian traits and a very early guess that we might be on an archipelago, Catherine wanted to focus early on a research path that could lead to Map Making (and the GL) or Literature (for cheap libraries and the other GL

) Catherine hoped that we might find another civilization that already knew the mysteries of the Alphabet and would be able to trade for it – but Alphabet is such an expensive tech that we believed that we would have to have at least some of the research done already if we wanted to trade – our knowledge Bronze Working might be valuable, but so many other civilizations focus on BW as the first technology that its trade value would be declining with time; our Pottery was probably not going to fetch Alphabet in trade. If playing an archipelago or certain continents map, the G. Lighthouse can be incredibly powerful; if not playing an archipelago, at least we was researching an expensive tech (since most will take 40 turns regardless of research cost), and one that would push Russia towards her scientific leanings and towards a more enlightened form of government, the Republic.

Russian laborers moved west into the grassland tile to build a road. They would next move north to a shielded grassland beside Moscow’s river to first mine and then road that tile. Just one turn after Moscow’s cultural borders expanded and her population grew, the new citizen would have a 2-food, 2-shield, 1-gold tile to work (with another gold available in 3 more turns). The worker orders would also facilitate easy movement to a second city site near the plentiful fishing grounds to our northwest – a second Russian city located there would benefit from the fish and gold available from the coast and would also be in a position to take advantage of the labor invested in and around Moscow – sharing improved tiles with the citizens of Moscow. Our founding city started work on a second scout – with one hut already in sight and nothing known about our world, we intended to explore aggressively.

In 3900 BC, our initial scout entered the nearby village. The friendly villagers offer maps of their region to help our scout on his way. It is clear that there is no land passage north of Moscow – perhaps we are at the tip of an archipelago? or on the coast of a small island? or on a quirky edge of a pangaea even? Our scout was directed to return south and then follow our northwestern coast further west – the newly acquired maps indicated that our northern coastal boundary continued west some ways. Our scout always endeavored to move one tile on flatlands and use his remaining movement point to complete his journey and rest on a hill or mountain for greater views. To the west of Moscow there seemed to be only plains and hills, with a few forests, but no signs of fresh water. With a second scout built, and the fear that Russia might be confined to a small landmass for some time, Catherine directed Moscow to train a warrior for both defense and population mood control, rather than building a third scout. Our second scout moved south two tiles after first taking advantage of the completed road west of Moscow.

In 3700 BC Moscow’s scouts simultaneously report being just outside of two separate villages – one to the far west, and one to Moscow’s south. Hoping for a friendly settler (and wanting it to be close to home), Catherine directed the southern scout to proceed into its village first – and Eureka! the villagers express a desire to join the emerging Russian empire.

Catt · February 11, 2003, 16:07

Part 2 of 11

3650 BC was a momentous year for Russia: not only had a friendly settler agree to join the empire, but our southern scout glimpsed a Greek hoplite in the mountains far to his west. So we knew that we would at least have one neighbor to our empire.

Catherine directed our new settler party to build St. Petersburg on the very spot of their primitive village – the location offered coastal access, a shielded grassland, local access to fine dyes, a second forest rich with game, and a nice distance from Moscow – able to share the tile improvements with Moscow as needed and also close to home for flexible defensive mobility.

Our western scout entered its village and was once again presented with maps of the region – its westward expansion was complete, for the maps clearly indicated that our landmass ended in coast and sea not far from the scout’s present location.

The discovery of the Greeks brought new challenges and opportunities to Russia. The Hoplite was a fearsome defender, and should war come to Russia, the hoplite would be a formidable opponent. In addition, we knew that the Greeks, like the Russians, were a scientific people, but that they were inclined to more commercial pursuits than aggressive exploration and expansion. The Greeks, we knew, would already possess Bronze Working (rendering our knowledge of it valueless for trade purposes) AND knew Alphabet – the very project Russian scientists were studying. Upon contacting Alexander, we were regrettably informed that an offer of all our accumulated gold and plus Pottery would be insufficient trade to acquire the Alphabet. We exited talks without making a trade, but intended to try again in the very near future, when our research had progressed further and our treasury grew.

As the years passed, our scouts quickly reported back that they had found no further villages, had encountered no barbarians, and had determined that Russia shared her landmass with only the Greeks to the southwest. No further unique luxury items seemed to be available for the Russian peasantry either. Catherine concerned and dismayed. The land available was hardly sufficient for Russia herself, let alone for Russia and the Greeks too. Regrettably, for Russia is not by nature a militaristic and warlike people, Catherine determined that the Greeks must be assimilated into Russia, by force if necessary.

But our long-range planning went far further than just neutralizing the Greek threat. As noted above, the motherland would likely be insufficient by itself to launch Russia into world superpower status, presuming she wasn’t alone in the world. A careful review of the motherland, made possible by the extensive scouting already completed, indicated several things and formed the basis for Russia’s longer-term plans. If all went well, we would establish a city in the hills just northeast of Athens, at roughly the center of the landmass – this city would serve as an ideal location for (1) staging grounds for an invasion of Greece, and (2) a forbidden palace through which the law and order of the czarina could more effectively be extended across the motherland. Such a city location also brought access to the headwaters of the river flowing from Lake Odessa to Athens on the coast, and this fresh water access was critical to our plans. The hilly and mountainous lands west of Moscow prevented creating fresh water access from Moscow to the vast plains and coasts further west – with fresh water would come productive western cities but without fresh water would come only stagnation. Catherine intended to both subdue Athens and convey fresh water for hundreds of miles north of Athens through the one viable engineering route available – the task was large, for it required clearing of many forests and the engineering of large swaths of irrigation (and, truth be told, the Russian people, while intensely interested in the sciences, were not known to be an industrious folk), but completion of the task offered the only hope of building an empire worth its salt. The plans were laid.

In the meantime, Catherine directed St. Petersburg to train a warrior and then build a barracks. Moscow built a warrior or two, and then began assembling a settler party – the fish-rich coast northeast of Moscow beckoned. Catherine debated whether to have Moscow construct a granary to more effectively store its agricultural output, but, in the end, she decided against doing so immediately for a number of reasons: (1) the growth boost to Russia from our discovery of a nearby settler made the turbo-charged growth a granary would provide less important; (2) the motherland was too small and too infertile to require a large, early investment in growth opportunities; (3) Russian terrain occupied by Greece at the moment (

) was not particularly fertile, meaning a better-than-even chance for Russia to out-settle and out-produce Greece prior to its assimilation; and (4) Russia counted on the Greek population to produce a few appropriate settlements for the empire.

While Catherine was busy planning the future of empire, our two Russian scouts camped in the mountains and hills surrounding Athens, watchful for any indications of aggressive Greek intentions. Soon our scouts reported a disturbing series of events. Three Greek warriors were moving with purpose through the mountains towards St. Petersburg. An impending attack seemed likely, and Catherine ordered all forces except one warrior south to defend mother Russia, a lone warrior remained near Moscow and the recently-formed coastal city of Kiev in case any Greek forces had somehow made their way north undetected. Four warriors protected St. Petersburg and a spearman was nearly trained. As anticipated, an emissary of Alexander sent word of Greece’s declaration of war when the three Greek warriors arrived just outside St. Petersburg, and they attacked. One Russian warrior fell and one was wounded but killed his attacker. The third Greek warrior fortified his position, providing defense to his wounded compatriot. Russia counter-attacked, destroying the fortified Greek and taking no damage. The wounded Greek was also destroyed. The first skirmish was a glorious success, and very quickly Alexander sought peace. But Catherine refused, wanting at least one shot at a Greek hoplite to test their reputed strength. Sages foretold that when a Greek hoplite won its first battle, Greece would enter a Golden Age, but a Golden Age that would be largely wasted during the early years (Catherine’s advisors had suggested that an immediate assault on a Hoplite was warranted at first opportunity, just to trigger the wasteful Golden Age, but Catherine considered that too much of a “dirty trick”

and would have none of it unless the Greeks were the aggressors). A hoplite acting as defender to a Greek warrior and archer appeared in the mountains west of St. Petersburg and a fearless and overeager regular Russian warrior launched an assault – he managed to wound the Greek hoplite before falling. Catherine immediately offered peace, but the loss of the Russian warrior and perhaps the dawning Greek Golden Age stiffened Alexander’s spine – previously he had been willing to offer tribute for peace with Russia, but presently he refused all but a straight, no-frills peace treaty. Catherine accepted, but also managed to complete our research of the Alphabet that very turn.

The acquisition of Alphabet offered Catherine the chance to proceed with the research path towards both Map Making and Literature. Map Making would be so important, for Catherine needed harbors to provide food for needy coastal cities which could eventually – a long leap forward – become scientific research powerhouses due to the combination of inexpensive Russian scientific buildings and commerce rich coastal tiles – and in the interim would provide significant current income before Russian universities were constructed. Catherine also might need the Great Lighthouse to further explore the world. Nonetheless, it was clear that the upstart Greeks were a threat to Russia’s nascent ambitions, both militarily and simply because the Greeks would claim some of the limited land and coast available. It was further believed that only the powerful swordsmen would be an adequate match for the Hoplites. Catherine directed her scientists to research Iron Working at a 40-turn pace, and hoarded gold for future iron outfittings and enhanced training for our growing force of Russian warriors.

In the meantime, Russian cities built only barracks, warriors, spearmen, and a few workers. Moscow did eventually build a granary and did so without chopping any nearby forests – Catherine had decided to preserve the resources available from forests because all Russian workers were gainfully employed building roads to the front of the coming battlefield and tile improvements or Russia’s new cities. The forests would serve for rapid harbor / marketplace / aqueduct / university construction later. During the war, Moscow’s population had swelled, and Catherine directed the laborers to use all their efforts to work the most productive lands – a granary was built and then Moscow’s population shrank as settler parties set out to form new Russian cities.

In 1625 BC, Odessa was established. The coming Russian-Greek war was one step closer. The image below shows the extent to which early Russian expansion out-paced Greek expansion.