AU204: Spoilers, Reports and Comments - Page 5

Nor Me · February 18, 2003, 22:18

The war against the Greeks started well. Losses in taking Athens and Sparta were too small. Upkeep meant that I did not have enough gold to upgrade all my warriors. Thermopylae and Corinth made up for this. Especially Thermopylae. Against hoplites on a hill, you really need Immortals. Even then it would have taken 3 days. For a long time I occupied the 3 productive squares around it with swordsmen to stop it building archers quickly. As a non-industrious civ, it's not worth pillaging developed hills. I was lucky to find Delphi on that island to the west. I've not seen any Militaristic civs here apart from the Vikings. Berserks would be so useful in this game that I won't apologise for this:

Nor Me · February 18, 2003, 22:20

You see Barcelona in the right of that screen shot is producing the palace? It was obvious I was going to have enough warriors so I started the Great Lighthouse prebuild during my GA. In 370BC, Barcelona built the Great Lighthouse. On the same turn, Cordoba rushed the Great Library in Madrid. Meanwhile, I'd met Egypt and Japan. Germany is already dead. I took the opportuntity of settling near Berlin for free Dyes. At this stage, I was just building on 0% research. Built the Hanging Gardens just because I could. Suicide galleys eventually made contact with the French. The Chinese were reduced to 3 cities with both France and Babylon gaining.
There were a lot of wars at this stage of the game. Egypt and Japan were often at war as were the French and Babylonians. I had wars with Egypt, Japan and Babylon, generally started by them demanding contact. If there's no fighting and I'm not the agressor, war weariness always seems to be negative. I had several cities become unhappy due to peace. In the end, I lost the dyes city to the Egyptians. I'm surprised that those worrying about defense didn't mention the naval chokepoint. It eventually fell but meant I never had to face landings.

Nor Me · February 18, 2003, 22:23

More war. Another pointless happiness wonder after researching(!) Feudalism and Theology. Between 620 and 960 AD, I did not receive a single tech from the GL nor did I research any. Constant wars meant that apart from with me, only Babylon and China could trade and China only had 1 city. By 960AD I had a mere 4878 gold. Many of my cities had colosseums so I had no choice but to build a few knights. I used thes to take the cities Egypt had south of Japan. This may have played a part in Japan's holding.
From 960AD to 1295AD(now so far), I've done nothing but build while researching at 4 turns a tech. Egypt is bigger than Japan but the difference in size between the 4 major AI civs is relatively small. At no point in this game have I had less than half of the wonders. This doesn't feel like Emperor. I've done well more by luck than strategy. I'm entering the industrial age but tech has come so fast that the AI continents have yet to make contact. I'm 2 techs ahead of Egypt but I've only sold the other civs Chemistry this turn. OK so I have 6 turns to Steam Power but Newton's is coming online in 2 turns, adding another 49 beakers/turn. This is certainly the first game I've used Leo's successfully as a pre-build for Newton's. I can agree with Bluefrog about the power of gold in this game. A great idea for AU205. Wait...

Dominae · February 18, 2003, 22:30

Looks like you're doing well, Nor Me, keep it up. I believe you're game is a special case in that none of the "big four" (Egypt, Japan, France, Babylon) has pulled ahead into KAI status. Since you're all relatively the same size, there's no wonder your economy is better since you're not at war. "Laying low" seems like the thing to do in this game.

Predictable? Heh, I thought I was being funny. America was the only Industrious civ in the list, so I figured any that got it would feel it was a gift. Guess not...Babylon would have turned this game into a Culture race, and who wants that? However, Bowmen versus Hoplites would have been a very cruel (read: funny) joke.

Dominae

Konquest02 · February 18, 2003, 23:07

Nor Me, what kind of win do you expect in this one? Conquest? SS? Probably not Diplo, considering the quantity of war you've fought...

Quote:

Originally posted by Nor Me
I can agree with Bluefrog about the power of gold in this game. A great idea for AU205. Wait...

AU 205 already exists... It was a replay of AU 105 when PTW came out. You may search for it...

--Kon--

Fosse · February 21, 2003, 14:05

I started another round of this game, but now I'm in crunch mode at school and don't think I'll be able to finish it up.

Sorry for the lack of screens, no internet in my room.

I drew the Russians once, and was wiped out when a Greek warrior attacked my spearman in Moscow....

I drew the Russians again and things worked out differently. I wiped the Greeks out with iron working, and had managed to deprive them of swords for themselves. This meant archers were the only counterattackers, and were easily defended against by my vet spears. In all, maybe ten swords and four spears took out Greece's three or four cities.

The Collossus was in Athens, and so I worked quickly to put the FP in the middle of the island (just east of the mountains... when just west was really the best place... city placement at the point of building it was dicated by speed and roaming Greek units). Once it was up and Athens was built up, I had a pretty useful commerce city up and running.

I managed to put a settler on the western Island, and push galleys to Babylon rather quickly. I also took the eastermost part of the Northeast island, which was shared with an Egyptian city and a stack of about six German units that wound up separating the island into Egyptian and Russian, with no way to cross from one to the other without boats (unless you're German, of course).

I was hoping to build up my libraries, then build a fleet of galleys, swords and horses to take out Germany. My hope was to secure Berlin's luxuries and generate a GL to build a palace on the bigger landscape.

Egypt had other plans.

They landed some units west of the German guard on the NE island, and took the city in a single turn. I tried to enlist Germany and Japan's aid. But Japan had only two cities (Egypt had taken the rest before I'd met them) and Germany was really marginalized. Both wanted more than I could afford for the little thelp they would have offered. I packed up my forces, originally intended for Germany, and sent them to the NE island to reclaim my land and take out Egypt's city in the hills.

I had left about six horses and a few swords on the mainland, in case Egypt made any landings... and did they ever. Galleys landed along the southern tundra, and I couldn't get forces down there in time to prevent their knights from capturing a city. I was able to quickly reclaim it... but the loss still stung (more my ego than anything).

I was soon amazed by the persistence with which Egypt landed units on my island, if not by the coordination. The best turn they ever had saw about six knights landing in one place in one turn with defenders. But normally I would get two or three units every two or three turns.

The attrition was killing me, and to make matters worse, they had sent a galley to the wester island and taken my city (guarded by a warrior).

I called for peace, which came as an even deal.

Angered by my off shore losses, I resigned myself to a slow buildup of military, and an eventual overseas invasion with cavalry. In the meantime, it was time to install those university' I had just discovered after trading contacts around and whoring all the techs I could...

More later... time to eat.

Fosse · February 21, 2003, 16:42

Things progressed fairly well for me for a while. I was able to get a leg up on one tech and started brokering it out for gpt... even trading with the evil Egyptians.

Babylon and China were both weaker than France, and France finally wiped out Babylon. China is sitting with one city still in the middle ages with the rest of us in mid industrial.

Egypt wiped out Germany and Japan, which made tech trading a little harder for a while... but I managed to secure ToE, despite the Wonder bulding machine that Thebes has become (I don't have the game here right now, but I think Egypt has about 70 % of all wonders built in one or two cities).

Egypt attacked once or twice during the course of the game, and in the late middle ages they sank my entire navy, which was sitting in the coastal waters NE of Russia. They had frigates, and I still had mostly galleys and a few caravels. At the time they were a few techs ahead. After ToE I was ahead, built up a modern navy that I thought would be fairly strong, and am currently bombarding the old German cities and am trying to land enough forces to get a city. I took the Russian city that Egypt occupied on the NE island, and they took it back with a brutal marine assault! This was something the AI doesn't ever do!

Egypt's navy is still bigger than mine, and I'm losing my fleet. My hope is to land enough units to get my city before my transports are all sunk. Egypt has Magelleans, which is really giving them an edge.

If I ever have time to get back to the game, I'll finish up the story and add some screenies.

Other notes: What happened to the little animations showing enemy ships sinking when you take a city with them in it? I took the island city right after Egypt sent about six or eight frigats into it, and I was really hoping for the joys of watching their navy sink... can these animations get turned off?

Egypt is a huge KAI, and having one in the west, is great fun too. I know a lot of the development of KAIs has to do with game circumstances, but good work Dom in cooking up a situation where they really developed and give the player a fight.

Played at Emporer level.

BigDork · February 21, 2003, 20:12

Hi everybody...

Well my game is going bad. I took out the Egyptians and the Germans within three turns. The same turn they died the revolution began. I made a quick switch to democracy and became a builder. I focused first on factories in cities that didn't have one and universities and banks in the other cities. I continued to build up until the modern time focusing on city improvements and only a little on my military.

Soon after I caught up in techs the French snuck attacked me. I was recieving 3 techs from them and when war struck I was forced to use the luxury slider. By diverting money to happiness I was losing footing in techs. Also the French were kicking my butt with bombers from aircraft carriers. I started making fighters in most of my cities and also subs and battleships in my coastal towns. Then something awful happened. My game froze.

And what's worse, for some unknown reason, my auto save was off.

Well, with three hours thrown out the window I took a couple of days off. I actually considered not finishing but I've put too much time into this to quit now. Today I gave it another go. I focused more on building up my military this time. I think I appeared weak to the French and that is why they attacked. And for the most part this proved true. The French did attack me again but this time I was more prepared. I had tanks sitting off their coast. Carriers full of planes waiting to be unleased upon the French cities. I had subs positioned outside French cities waiting to pick off transports. Well, I once again had to divert funds to happiness but since I was expecting it it didn't hurt so bad. Well, it was a mainly defensive war at first. I landed my tanks on the northern island, bombarding with bombers, battleships, and destroyers. And then...yep...game froze again.

Well, I don't think there's any way I can win. There's less than 50 years left and I'm only now researching Ecology. I don't have nearly enough of an army to win by domination. The French have the UN and I don't think they'd vote for me anyway. My culture sucks. And France is exactly 300 points ahead of me. I think I'm gonna build up about 30 - 50 ICBM's and nuke the poop out of France a turn or two before 2050 just for spite.

This has been a true learning experience for me. This has been the most challenging game I've yet to play. Every other game I've ever played I've won by culture victory. This is the first I've ever lost. Well, not lost but come in second which is the same as losing to me. This game has given me a jump start to play Civ 3 more. I'm very looking forward to the next AU game. But hopefully next time my computer will co-operate a little more. I'm gonna reload when I get off work and we'll see if that works. Thanks to all for putting up with my ramblings.

BigD

Dominae · February 21, 2003, 20:21

Commendable persistence, BigD! Although I wish you could have won your game, I'm also happy the KAI gave you such a run for your money. You'll play better in your next game, guaranteed.

Dominae

Chemical Ollie · February 21, 2003, 21:55

Do you mean you still play this? I thought I still stopped playing 3 months ago?

BigDork · February 21, 2003, 22:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
Commendable persistence, BigD! Although I wish you could have won your game, I'm also happy the KAI gave you such a run for your money. You'll play better in your next game, guaranteed.

Actually I learned one big thing from this game. I'm not a warmonger. I am very inexperienced in the art of warmongering. I honestly think my biggest mistake this game was almost constantly being at war. I allowed myself to fall too far behind while fighting the Egyptians. I should have called for peace, built up and probably abused a RoP severily. Oh well. I'm really looking forward to nuking the French. I've yet to use a nuke in Civ 3. Honestly I usually have a culture victory by now. But I've been playing on easier levels. Regent gave me my first real challenge. Hopefully soon I'll be moving up again. Thanks for the challenge Dom and hopefully I'll have a chance to play in the next AU. It took me a long time to find the time to finish this one. Maybe the world will calm down so I can play more video games darn it.

BigD

BigDork · February 22, 2003, 11:04

Hi everybody...

It's a miracle!!!

This morning I reloaded Civ3 and decided to finish it up. I was bound and determined to see the end, even if it was me losing. Well I was right up there with Joan tech wise and we were having a race to Alpha Centari. I was about a tech or so behind and decided to take a different path than Joan so I had something to trade her. Well, I tried to trade Satellites for Nuclear Power, nope, she wouldn't do it. She did however give me almost 500gpt. WtF? Well, with that money I was able to pump up my science research and caught up nicely.

At the same time I was working on plan B. Plan B is also known as make France glow green. I had some subs with tacticlal nukes sitting off the French coast. As soon as I got ICBM's they went into production in all my core cities. Also I had about 100 MA's ready and waiting to go. I knew I wouldn't be able to totally take out France before 2050 but I figured if I could take a bunch of their core cities it would help me out. But, didn't need to happen.

In 2040, for a world map and 10 gold France traded me robotics. I was 1 turn away from getting it myself but I really needed it then. France was building the last three parts of the space ship themselves and I was afraid to they might get it off before me. I switched an ICBM and my palace which were both almost done and in 2041 off I went.

France probably only had two or three more turns before they were gone too.

It was definatly a nail biter at the end. I wasn't sure if I was gonna make it. Actually I was pretty sure I didn't have time to research all the techs and build the pieces of the space ship too. I was very surprised I pulled it off. Lots of fun.

BigD

BigDork · February 22, 2003, 11:06

Hi everybody...

Here's what would have happened if I didn't manage to win with a space victory.

BigD

Catt · February 22, 2003, 11:47

Congrats on your first Regent win BigD!

Dominae · February 22, 2003, 11:57

Looking at BigD's screen of France, is everyone thinking what I'm thinking? Look at the city placement!

We've got ~3-tile spacing along the coasts, and slightly more in the interior. That's pretty close to what most veteran players would do with that terrain! Wow!

Dominae

yxhuvud · February 22, 2003, 12:18

yes, it looks really nice.

Except for the yellow ooze

BRC · February 22, 2003, 12:23

Nice game BD.

badams52 · February 22, 2003, 15:17

Nice game BigD

Another thing you could have done, since you had the army, is to take Paris and destroy the French spaceship ensuring that yours would lift off first. The AI is terrible in coastal invasions.

BigDork · February 22, 2003, 18:11

Thanks all. Actually, I definatly wouldn't be anywhere near as good at this game as I am if I'd never found this site and never read all the advice in this forum. Probably would never have gotten off chieftain and gotten bored by now.

Quote:

Originally posted by badams52
Another thing you could have done, since you had the army, is to take Paris and destroy the French spaceship ensuring that yours would lift off first. The AI is terrible in coastal invasions.

Actually, you can't see it because it's covered by a battleship but I have 4 transports due west of Paris all loaded with MA's. If I thought they were gonna launch first I was going to land my MA's, totally throw the RoP out the window and then nuke them into oblivion before they get too many ICBM's of their own. However, didn't have to.

Can't wait for the next time.

BigD

badams52 · February 22, 2003, 23:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae
Looking at BigD's screen of France, is everyone thinking what I'm thinking? Look at the city placement!

We've got ~3-tile spacing along the coasts, and slightly more in the interior. That's pretty close to what most veteran players would do with that terrain! Wow!

Take a closer look Dominae, those aren't France's cities, those are cities he captured. So I believe the spacing is due to tight quarters for rival civs rather than a planned 3-tile.

Which surprises me since often when I play, France is a punching bag

Dominae · February 22, 2003, 23:29

True, but most of Babylon's cities look pretty good. France's spaced a bit further out, but nicely along the coast. You're right that it is probably due to the geography, but it's impressive when it happens...

Dominae

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 14:11

I finally got some time to finish this game... In my last update, I concluded with "More updates soon!" Well, it's not soon, but it's better now than never!

You can read the beginning of my game in the earlier part of this thread.

With the lead created by my GA, I was catapulted into the industrial times. I knew peace was the way to go, as I was not overwhelingly powerful enough to try a continental invasion of either Egypt, Babylon or France.

Japan, with two cities left, dumped a spearman and an swordman near my city on the northern island, which was only defended by an archer. The rifleman in production had 1 turn left. Quite miraculously, my archer survived the swordman attack (Newcastle is located on hills) and the next turn, defeated the spearman. This sent me in a war with Japan

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 14:16

I then got Egypt to ally with me in my war against Japan. (I was too lazy to send troops to a city I would not have been able to defend anyways...) The Japan were killed in two turns... It was a matter of time before Egypt took over all of its continent so I gave them a good opportunity.

Tech brokering was at its best. I sold my techs for a lot of gpt to the AI allowing:
1- My research rate to be higher
2- The AI's research rate to be much lower
3- My tech lead and my gold pile growing really fast.

My people were happy and I was sailing merrily towards a Diplomatic victory...

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 14:20

But then... I had built the UN and called for a vote. There were three candidates and only 4 people could vote (China had been destroyed by Babylon) which ended in inconclusive votes everytime. Everyone was voting for themselves except Babylon who was voting for me.

So I went into high gear to complete the space ship before everyone else, which happened in 1960, before anyone could build a part probably... see next post).

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 14:43

I learned quite a few things in the AU course. Here is the summary:

1- Being all alone on a small island with the Greeks (especially being the English) is really evil, Dominae...

1a- While alone with the Greeks, try to destroy them before they can expand and get hoplites. They are really dangerous and only a good deal of luck allowed me to beat them as I did.

2- Expansionist may be good even on archipelago maps because Pottery is a prerequisite to Map Making, making it possible to reach MM faster than most others.

3- You have to be careful with the wearly wonders as the English as The Colossus (which I really like to build) and the Great Lighthouse immediately trigger a GA, typically a despotic GA (which is often not a good thing)

4- The AI is terrible at overseas invasions. The most I got is a swordman while defending with a spear and later a swordman and a spearman while defending with an archer (rifleman with 1 turn left...) Therefore, an island scenario is good for diplomatic and SS win because you can keep you military relatively low and not fear too much for an invasion.

5- Use your GA wisely, it can lead to great things and most of the time, win the game...

6- I got two killer AIs in my game Egypt and France. Babylon was a major power too, up to the end of the medieval times. France got 4 leaders in their wars against Babylon while the Babs only got 1. I think this is why my eastern continent is all pink.

7- China even took a city while they were fighting the Babs with the French. However, their lone horseman got killed by the Babylonian infantry and Cavalry the same turn...

8- No AI ever researched Espionnage, even well into the modern times.

I guess they thought it was not worth it... Anyone got this result too?

9- I had fun and my score was not good, but I was a dominant force, so score can be totally forgotten (I think it was ~1450 points...)

--Kon--

Nor Me · March 8, 2003, 15:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Konquest02
Japan, with two cities left, dumped a spearman and an swordman near my city on the northern island, which was only defended by an archer. The rifleman in production had 1 turn left. Quite miraculously, my archer survived the swordman attack (Newcastle is located on hills)

It's a size 7 city and you have Nationalism. Why didn't you draft? You were lucky this time.

Quote:

1- Being all alone on a small island with the Greeks (especially being the English) is really evil, Dominae...

1a- While alone with the Greeks, try to destroy them before they can expand and get hoplites. They are really dangerous and only a good deal of luck allowed me to beat them as I did.

...

3- You have to be careful with the wearly wonders as the English as The Colossus (which I really like to build) and the Great Lighthouse immediately trigger a GA, typically a despotic GA (which is often not a good thing)

As the Spanish, I thought it was best to take advantage of 3 to solve the problem of 1. The Colossus and a despotic GA enabled me to get the gold for a swordsmen rush without slowing down my research too much. So the Greeks weren't a problem. In fact, I was lucky and got a Leader which became the Great Library. All I needed for it was a few upgraded warriors and fewer swordsmen. So, overall, I gained in shelds and research from the war having used my GA for a large advantage over the Greeks.

Updates may be coming shortly but now I'm at the start of the industrial age with a tech lead. So there are alternative approaces to 5.

Anyway, you won easily and that's what counts

.

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 16:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Nor Me

It's a size 7 city and you have Nationalism. Why didn't you draft? You were lucky this time.

Totally forgot about that... I (almost) never used the draft button so I forgot I had the option...

--Kon--

Dominae · March 8, 2003, 19:27

Well done Kon, and thanks for the "things I learned" section; those are always the best (ok, the screenshots are usually cool too). Sorry for being evil, but getting paired with the Greeks on a smallish island happens almost never with a random map. So I thought I would make the scenario even more "random" that it already was...!

Dominae

Konquest02 · March 8, 2003, 22:00

This was my first game where I went hard on screenshots. (when I take 3 or 4 I am happy) This game I took over 40 screens... I will eventually put them on my website at http://nomis80.org/~jmarchand/. I also have an AAR there but it's only in french...

Thanks again for the map Dom!

--Kon--

Dominae · March 9, 2003, 04:56

Konquest, your web site provides quite a good AAR, but I'm glad you posted the important stuff here too (did I mention I'm originally from Québec, alors moi aussi je parle francais?!). Good stuff.

Dominae