Bush and Ashcroft are not real Americans!

Thorn · February 8, 2003, 10:33

Ok I've had my fun doing my mocking of them in a few of my threads, but really what they are doing is no laughing matter.

[some of you can skip the following section]

First for you newbies let me give you a little background on my political views. For 8 years up until 3 years ago I was a Totalitarianist and in some cases I still am. I started examining an ideal form of Fascism, not the one that was put into use during the bloodly begining of the 20th century but a more idealistic form of this, similarly as Communism has a more idealistic form than that that exists today or even 70 years ago. Some events in my life helped me break through past the conceited reasonings for the order I was examining, and thankfully have allowed to advance my ideas to such a new level that they are now becoming quite original and practical. As I'm working for my PhD in political science I have been working on some thesis for my new order.

While I haven't come up with a name for it yet, and can give you some idea of what it will encompass. The closest descriptive form for what I have come up with although this will seem quite paradoxical to you is Libertarian Fascism. Just as the book "1984" represents the dark form of Totalitariansm the book "Brave New World" represents something closer to what I am examining. My government would provide ultimate security and extreme freedom. How you say is this possible, well it is. "Brave new world" consisted of a society that had an invisible central government, yet could be engaged whenever needed but only to provide security for individuals, not to serve it own selfish ambitions. True, there were classes of people, but they were more fairly defined then those of now, (genetic if you really want to know). Basically what people did all day was entertain themselves; drugs and sex. We are not talking about the dangerous kind of drugs, were talking about drugs that were designed for purpose of providing pleasure without any/ or many of the risks involved in current drugs (I'll start a thread about this subject on its own). When it comes down to it these kind of drugs are not much different then sensory alteration equipment IE: video games in virtual reality. The point is people in this society (and I define people as homo sapien sapians) live a life to enjoy and grow and not to serve the needs of selfish others. I've come up with some rather hilarious tag lines describing my government: "Ultimate Security, Ultimate Pleasure" -- Sounds like a porn site right? heh heh.

[end of section]

Anyway that was just to give a small overview of my political views so you can understand why I am so appalled by what people in the US government are doing and will continue to do and may even finish doing if they are not pressured to stop. In a nutshell what is the US government doing? --Turning the US into a corporate run totalitaristic technocracy. But I am a totalitarianist, right? So why would this make me appalled. Lets examine.

Ever since the terrorist attacks on 9/11 the United States government has been increasingly turning itself into a police state and stripping away the rights and priviliges of the American (footnote 1) people . They have been doing this in a very subtle fashion fueled by the paranoia and and hysteria of the public, but not with the intent to help the people, but to advance their own ends. Whose interests do they have in mind? The corporations. Bush and Cheny are both heavy investors in the oil industry which is one of the richests industries in the world. That alone is disconcerting enough for some people, but is not enough for me.

What really bothers me is that Bush is using his office to advance his own personal agendas. Namely, doing what his Daddy didn't finish. Iraq, dangerous country, perhaps, but dangerous enough to justify and invasion, no way. Would the dictator of Iraq use weapons to hurt Americans if he could get away with it, yes, but would he get away with it, no. He is assured complete destruction for any activity that he is connected with. Therefore he is not going to. He dislikes the US, but does he dislike it enough to give up his job, his country, let alone his life, NO. Evil man, probably, but crazy and stupid, not. (footnote 2). And what is at stake in the international realm? - quite a bit. All the progress in establishing some international order to avoid the kind of calamities that led to both world wars. Does it serve US interests to destabilize the World, definately not, so then why would he be doing this? --Some moral high ground of punishing misfit states? -- that is the cover story but not the truth. The truth is Iraq sits on a bed of oil larger than that of almost all of the Middle Eastern Countries. Bush's personal ambition to give himself a legacy that outweighs his father and his corporate ambition to get more oil are both contributing factors to this. There are one of two explanations for this behavior: A) Bush is selfish and acting for himself B) Bush is a moron and doesn't know what he is doing. As much as some of you would like to believe despite his speech blunders and rediculous tag lines he is not a moron. This is enough to extremely upset someone, that he would actually risk international order (and possible international destruction, see my other thread) to serve his own ends. But that is not the end of it. He leads the executive branch of the United States. The executive branch is meant to lead the country and keep it from going astray. Yet his worse offense to America is his tolerance of the activities of the Justice Department and the blinded Congress. Sure no one is going to be happy with him if his recklessness destroys the world. But his failure to stop the sinister plot of others in the government is an atrocity.

The first Patroit Act bill passed by Congress has given the police the authority to violate the fourth amendment against unlawful search and seizures. According to the law anyone can be searched without their consent, without their knowledge, and can be put in jail if they so much as complain about it, all by using the tag line of suspected terrorist. The government has made the defination that terrorism is anything that "intimidates or tries to coerce a government or people." With that defination terrorism can be attributed to anyone the government doesn't like, including protestors, opposing political parties, religious groups, civil rights groups, students, etc. This is a clear violation of the first Amendment which is the freedom of speech. In a handout givin to police by homeland security anyone who verbalizes their constitutional rights can be labled a terrorist. Furthermore, due to the first Patriot Act any person who is a citizen and is accused of terrorist related activities can be taken away to an undisclosed location, for an indefinate amount of time, without telling anyone, and without rights to legal consul. Unlike Britain there is no two week limit to this, and this is considered cruel and unusual punishment which is a violation of the eighth amendment. All of this is violating the consitution. But surely that will get struck down by the Supreme Court? Not neccesssarly now the Justice Department is making a sequel to the Patriot act that among other things limits Judicial Review. They want to reduce the power of the Supreme Court's ability to uphold the consitution, and they are doing it without the consent of 3/4th's of the states that is required by the constitution. This indeed is a treasonous act! If this wasn't bad enough the bill also includes sections that allow for the revoking of citizenship arbitrarly for the accusation of being a suspected terrorist and the therein forfeiting of all rights as a citizen. This is done without a provision that would allow for them to be considered prisoners of war thereby sneaking past the GENEVA CONVENTION!! They can take a person's rights away, whenever they want, and do anything they want including torture (footnote 3), without answering to anyone.

Does anyone see where this is leading? A police state run by Corporations. You do something Corporations don't like and they can do anything to you as accorded by law. Why is it bad to give this much power to Corporations? Corporations have selfish interests and time and time again sacrifice human rights to serve their own ends. If you need an example of this just look at what big companies did to people in the 19th century. If it wasn't bad enough then why else would people be inventing socialism, and communism and then in fact making those governments into place. Corporations continue to ignore human rights but they do this outside the jurisdiction of the government by doing this kind of activity in poor undeveloped countries. A lot of people will die, be tortured, treated cruely, and millions will suffer untold by these actions. With the United States current aggressive action in the world, is the duty of every free citizen of the world to stand up against this Tyranny, and prevent this horrible reality from dominating the entire world. Don't think these evil people will stop just with this country. Bush and Ashcroft are UNAMERICAN! For writing this post I may dissappear forever, do not let me go in vain. Stop these madman before they ruin the World!

1

When I say American I am refering to the people citizens of the United States, for you Europeans and "other" Americans of the central and southern continent to understand me. Is it right for me to do this? No, but I just don't want to accidently contradict myself)

2

It was found that the invasion of Kuwait was more of a misunderstading between the United States and Iraq then of the aggressive nature of a Madman. There are records that show that the US representative to Iraq stated that the US would not intervene if Iraq invaded Kuwait. After the fact he was subsequently fired.)

3

Torture has already been done, look at those rat cages exposed to the elements and the burning sun, that they are keeping the Afgahnistans in Guantanamo Bay, which are being held without rights, and for an indefinate amount of time.)

Bugs ****ing Bunny · February 8, 2003, 11:13

Are you still gay, or was that just a conspiracy against you?

Thorn · February 8, 2003, 11:17

Laz I have plenty of threads where you can attack me personally and be rediculous too, why don't you do so on one of them, instead?

Thorn · February 8, 2003, 16:36

*bump*

Drake Tungsten · February 8, 2003, 16:40

So, are you gay or not? Answer the man's question...

Bugs ****ing Bunny · February 8, 2003, 16:41

I'm sorry, Evan. This thread looked lonely and abandoned.

So it was an evil plot?

Static Universe · February 8, 2003, 17:07

People who live for pleasure are easily manipulated by controlling their pleasures.

The problem with your theory is that when no one cares about the "selfish need of others", people like Bush and Ashcroft take charge. They don't care about anybody except themselves and their own kind. They lack even a token empathy for those that disagree with them.

Your utopian ideal is exactly what Bush and Ashcroft want to give you. I think you're just mad because the drugs and entertainment they want you to enjoy aren't very pleasurable.

Thorn · February 8, 2003, 18:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Static23
People who live for pleasure are easily manipulated by controlling their pleasures.

The problem with your theory is that when no one cares about the "selfish need of others", people like Bush and Ashcroft take charge. They don't care about anybody except themselves and their own kind. They lack even a token empathy for those that disagree with them.

Your utopian ideal is exactly what Bush and Ashcroft want to give you. I think you're just mad because the drugs and entertainment they want you to enjoy aren't very pleasurable.

I don't want to live at the whim of the religious right they do not serve my interests at all nor do they serve the majority either.

And yes I'm gay, what the hell is the relevance here?

Oh and I'm adding a disclaimer: When I said that "these madman must be stopped" and the like I mean by just and legal means. I'm not the one to lead a revolution.

orange · February 8, 2003, 18:54

We just wanted to have another contradictory quote to throw on the pile. Thanks EvC

...you may go now...

Thorn · February 8, 2003, 19:17

Orange I hate you and am going to eat you.

Drake Tungsten · February 8, 2003, 19:29

Quote:

Orange I hate you and am going to eat you.

Yep, that's pretty gay...

You might prefer having Orange eat you. Photographic evidence indicates he's pretty good at it.

DuncanK · February 8, 2003, 20:12

Thorn,

There's nothing wrong with your theory, but I wouldn't be suprised if you figure out that its all wrong and you begin to be more practical as you get older.