Why was fundamentalism taking out ?

Phatphal · February 10, 2003, 09:22

Where is the government for the war crazed people out there

Panag · February 10, 2003, 09:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Phatphal
Where is the government for the war crazed people out there

hi ,

try communism , .....

good Q but no real answer , .....

who knows , maybe in an XP , ......

have a nice day

Jamski · February 10, 2003, 09:31

It was too powerful

-Jam

Chemical Ollie · February 10, 2003, 17:00

The game was released closely after 9/11. Perhaps they didn't want to intimidate some sentimental American patriots. The spy missions "plant nuke" and "poison water supply" from CIV2 are also missing. At least the poison would be useful to reduce enemy population before attacking a city, to reduce defence bonus and prevent culture flips.

But instead of fundamentalism and terrorism, you can commit genicide by artillery and starvation.

pedrojedi · February 10, 2003, 17:30

I'll go with Art of War: it was too d*mn powerful.

I usually made some serious research until I got submarines, then turned into a Fundamentalism and just destroyed every last bit of not-agreeing-with-me culture.

WarpStorm · February 10, 2003, 17:58

They didn't think it was fun because it was too easy.

Phatphal · February 11, 2003, 01:05

Its not like they HAD to keep the same properties for the government. They could have reduced the number of units you had free, and changed some characteristics. I just switched from civ 2 to civ 3 and it just seems there isn't enough governments :/

Jamski · February 11, 2003, 06:42

Editor - add governments - its about the easiest mod to do. Even I managed it. The AI abused my fundy gov, and swiched as soon as it was possible (I thought with monotheism) and then went into a tech stagnation, but with about 100,000 Knights. Hard to balance. All of the AI civs were using the new government.

-Jam

TacticalGrace · February 11, 2003, 09:27

fundamentalism is the natural state for the AI. I mindlessly builds units and sends them to their destruction.

Jamski · February 11, 2003, 09:32

Quote:

Originally posted by TacticalGrace
fundamentalism is the natural state for the AI. I mindlessly builds units and sends them to their destruction.

You are talking about the AI, right ? Great typo, made me laugh

-Jam

Optimizer · February 11, 2003, 09:37

I've never understood what the real world equivalent for the Fundamentalist government in Civ 2 was. Since it came late in the game - after Conscription - it must have been meant to simulate the fundamentalist regimes of the 20th century.

However, there haven't been very many of them - I can only think of the ayatollah-ruled Iran and the taliban-governed Afghanistan. Neither of them has been famous for large, invincible armies.

Jamski · February 11, 2003, 10:09

I always moved it earlier, so then it is good for the Islamic Jihad in the 7th Century, the Crusaders, etc...

-Jam

Optimizer · February 11, 2003, 10:24

True. Fundamentalism - or more generally religious government - was more of an issue in ancient times.

Fundamentalism shouldn't have such extreme military maintenance bonuses, either.

Jamski · February 11, 2003, 10:30

Hmm, but in civ3, what is less than 1 gold per unit? You have to give fundy free units to giv it better support, and free units means the AI never stops stockpiling '@#+*' ** riflemen

-Jam

Optimizer · February 11, 2003, 10:46

But why should fundamentalism have better military support at all? Their soldiers have to eat, too.

Jamski · February 11, 2003, 10:52

But they don't care so much if they get hungry. They're fighting for God, after all.

-Jam

Jaguar · February 11, 2003, 19:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Olaf Hårfagre
The game was released closely after 9/11. Perhaps they didn't want to intimidate some sentimental American patriots.

They announced that Fundamentalism was gone in early August 2001. Don't know about the planting nukes and poisoning the water supplies though.

SorvinoBackhand · February 11, 2003, 20:13

It seems to me that some kind of modern, authoritarian government form is required, by both actual historical experience and the needs of game play. Call it dictatorship, authoritarianism, fascism, fanaticism, a junta, whatever. But some manner of modern and militarily capable government form is need. Switching to monarchy or communism when you get surprised attacked in late game is just too ridiculous. (In this area, Civ 3 is a real step back from SMAC. I miss all those government permutations....)

Panag · February 12, 2003, 07:34

hi ,

question , if Firaxis where to include a new type of government , what would you choose , ......

dictatorship could be adjusted to fit most ages , ......

have a nice day

Th0mas · February 12, 2003, 08:17

I still am in two minds about whether Fundamentalism is a form of Government or not?
Doesn't fundamentalism describe the culture rather than the form of rulership?

A Nation governed by leaders ordained by God, giving them the divine right to rule sounds like a monachy to me.
I suppose Iran could be described as a despotic government, which supposes that it could become more democratic. Therefore its government 'type' is independent of it's fundamentalist Religious establishment..

(I apologise if I have slandered any Iranians, it was not my intention,...I am just showing my ignorance by using your nation as an example)

Panag · February 12, 2003, 08:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Th0mas
I still am in two minds about whether Fundamentalism is a form of Government or not?
Doesn't fundamentalism describe the culture rather than the form of rulership?

A Nation governed by leaders ordained by God, giving them the divine right to rule sounds like a monachy to me.
I suppose Iran could be described as a despotic government, which supposes that it could become more democratic. Therefore its government 'type' is independent of it's fundamentalist Religious establishment..

(I apologise if I have slandered any Iranians, it was not my intention,...I am just showing my ignorance by using your nation as an example)

hi ,

, fundamentalism could become a unique gov for civ with a religious trait , .......

have a nice day

Th0mas · February 12, 2003, 08:38

Quote:

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

, fundamentalism could become a unique gov for civ with a religious trait , .......

have a nice day

Yes, but that supposes there is something special about fundamentalism as a government type that isn't already in Monachy?

Does Civ 3 need another government type that prevents unhappyness and reduces the cost of maintaining military might for the price of a reduced science production? That still says Monachy to me.

I also believe the CIV 3 monachy government best describes real-world 'fundamentalist' states when compared with the CIV 2 fundamentalist government type.
edit for grammer & spelling

Panag · February 12, 2003, 08:49

Quote:

Originally posted by Th0mas

Yes, but that supposes there is something special about fundamentalism as a government type that isn't already in Monachy?

Does Civ 3 need another government type that prevents unhappyness and reduces the cost of maintaining military might for the price of a reduced science production? That still says Monachy to me.

I also believe the CIV 3 monachy government best describes real-world 'fundamentalist' states when compared with the CIV 2 fundamentalist government type.
edit for grammer & spelling

hi ,

monarchy is not the answer , most of those tend to have high corruption in the real world , ....

no , it should be something new , something extra like a gov only possible for lets say religous traits , and an other one available to all that fills the other gaps , like a dictarship or so , ..... no tanks can be supported ( or very few ) , troops in cities are needed or a major uprising happens , bandints roam the country and destroy improvements , ...... etc , ....

have a nice day

Fried-Psitalon · February 12, 2003, 13:19

I gotta go with the fella a few posts back that said Civ3 was a real step back in governments from SMAC. I think (with the possible exception of "Green" economy governments) you can find every permutation of the Police State/Democractic/Fundamentalist government with FreeMarket/Planned economics and goals of Power/Wealth/Knowledge. (Hmm...maybe not knowledge either..... dunno?)

I was kinda hoping for more of the same, but alas.

So here's the real question: which countries would choose Future: Cybernetic/Eudaimonia/Though Control?

Hehehe.

SorvinoBackhand · February 12, 2003, 13:41

That was me. Thanks for the compliment. Expanded government posibilities should be a major part of any other x-pack to civ 3. Is there some way that request can be put into a list of issues for Firaxis (if it isn't already in there) ?