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View Poll Results: What was the Achilles' nationality?
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Pelasgian
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1 |
9.09% |
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Minoan
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1 |
9.09% |
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Mycenean/Aegean
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2 |
18.18% |
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Ionian
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0 |
0% |
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Dorian
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0 |
0% |
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Hellene
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1 |
9.09% |
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Slavic
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2 |
18.18% |
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Greek
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3 |
27.27% |
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CowboyNeal:_______________________
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1 |
9.09% |
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February 10, 2003, 14:01
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#1
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Local Time: 12:07
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In search of pants
Posts: 5,085
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What was Achilles' nationality?
This is inspired by Markos' insistence  that Greeks didn't view Alexander's Macedonians as a separate nationality. R'lyeh, Athenians even viewed Spartans as a different nationality. 
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February 10, 2003, 14:07
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#2
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Deity
Local Time: 09:07
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Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: In a bamboo forest hiding from Dale.
Posts: 17,436
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It's all greek to me.
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Christianity is the belief in a cosmic Jewish zombie who can give us eternal life if we symbolically eat his flesh and blood and telepathically tell him that we accept him as our lord and master so he can remove an evil force present in all humanity because a woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from an apple tree.
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February 10, 2003, 14:20
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#3
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King
Local Time: 12:07
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Posts: 1,383
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The Greeks are such sissys. He had to be a Turk.
__________________
R.I.P George Alexandru 9/8/07
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February 10, 2003, 14:22
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#4
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Local Time: 12:07
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The Greeks are such sissys. He had to be a Turk.
LOL.
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February 10, 2003, 14:27
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#5
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Moderator
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Posts: 8,664
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He was American, obviously....
-=Vel=-
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February 10, 2003, 14:31
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#6
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Settler
Local Time: 18:07
Local Date: November 1, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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Venezuelan.
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February 10, 2003, 14:40
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#7
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Deity
Local Time: 11:07
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Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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A little known fact.
He was actually an Australian Aborigine.
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Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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February 10, 2003, 14:45
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#8
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Emperor
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Posts: 3,815
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Myrmidonian
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Last edited by Lefty Scaevola; February 10, 2003 at 23:35.
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February 10, 2003, 16:20
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#9
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 16:07
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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American:
Big, strong, powerful.....but with one weakness that will kill him.
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February 10, 2003, 16:45
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#10
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:07
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Posts: 3,948
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Re: What was Achilles' nationality?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by St Leo
This is inspired by Markos' insistence that Greeks didn't view Alexander's Macedonians as a separate nationality. R'lyeh, Athenians even viewed Spartans as a different nationality.
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The latter statement is misleading, the Athenians viewed the Spartans (and the Thebans, Corinthians, etc.) as non-Athenians, they certainly didn't view them as non-Greeks.
Both Plato and Aristotle recognise that there was a popular division between "Hellenes" and "Barbaroi"; the Macedonians are a hard case, but were regarded by most Greeks as foreigners. As far as I know the Macedonians didn't compete at the Olympic games which is for many people the distinguishing mark of the Hellenes.
Read Demosthenes anyway, he didn't like them bleedin' foreigners much....
The term "Hellenes" isn't even used in the Iliad (if I remember correctly). The terms used to describe Agamemnon, Menelaus and their allies were "Argives", "Danaans" and "Achaeans".
Interestingly, the historical evidence points to the Iliad being based on a factual Trojan war with the dispute arising over a piece of stolen religious statuary. I went to a really good guest lecture about this last year. The last I heard the "Greeks" in that war were most likely to have come from Rhodes. So if Achilles existed he was probably from there.
__________________
Only feebs vote.
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February 10, 2003, 16:54
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#11
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Settler
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 65,535
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Re: Re: What was Achilles' nationality?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
Read Demosthenes anyway, he didn't like them bleedin' foreigners much....
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Well demosthenes had his own agenda...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...4&pagenumber=3
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February 10, 2003, 17:20
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#12
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
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Re: Re: What was Achilles' nationality?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Agathon
As far as I know the Macedonians didn't compete at the Olympic games which is for many people the distinguishing mark of the Hellenes.
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Alexandros I (498-454BC) , King of the Macedons took part in the Olympic games....
(Alexander the Great was Alexander III)
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February 10, 2003, 17:26
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#13
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King
Local Time: 17:07
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Location: Italia
Posts: 2,036
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He was a MACEDONIAN!
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I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.
Asher on molly bloom
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February 10, 2003, 17:46
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#14
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Emperor
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Re: Re: Re: What was Achilles' nationality?
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MarkG
Alexandros I (498-454BC) , King of the Macedons took part in the Olympic games....
(Alexander the Great was Alexander III)
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Okey Doke - I didn't know that.
I guess I'll have to troll around for some evidence on the views of the other Greeks at the time.
It's looking pretty good for him if what you say is true.
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Only feebs vote.
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February 10, 2003, 18:38
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#15
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Local Time: 12:07
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Posts: 5,085
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Did any Epirotes compete in the Olympic Games?
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February 10, 2003, 18:55
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#16
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
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do you realize that the word "Epirotes" is Greek?
guess not....
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February 10, 2003, 18:56
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#17
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Prince
Local Time: 19:07
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Location: Athens Greece
Posts: 856
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OK, now this is a personal question!
My first name is Achilles you see. I was named after my grandfather (who was christened in 1901 himself) who was given this name because he was born in the village Palaiokastro of Fthia, near the origins of the river Spercheios. The myth says that Achilles had his capital in that region, at the origins of Spercheios. I do not know if there are any ruins there, but probably the locals had found unidentified ancient ruins, which they supposed they had to be the ruins of Achilles palace. I have gone there once, but I heard nothing about this. 100 years ago, the Greeks were undergoing a nationalist phase and all ancient names were in vogue I guess.
So what does this make Achilles? He would describe himself as Myrmidon, I'm sure. And after that, he would say he was Achaean.
Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians came after the Achaeans and the Pelasgians were there before them. Incidentally, Fthia, the place of origin of both the mythical Achilles and myself, has plenty of Pelasgian ruins, chiefly the mysterious "pyramids". There is even a town named Pelasgia there nowdays.
We were not naming ourselves Hellenes until the time of Hesiod (who told the tale of Elli, the base of the myths about the origins of the Hellenes) and Homer, which was the 8th century B.C.
B.t.w. The guy in my avatar is Achille Talon, a French cartoon by Greg. Talon is a bachelor, a scholar, an amateur adventurer and lifes, where else, in Paris...
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"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act."
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February 10, 2003, 19:01
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#18
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King
Local Time: 16:07
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Tassadar5000
American:
Big, strong, powerful.....but with one weakness that will kill him.
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ROTF
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February 10, 2003, 19:43
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#19
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Prince
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Hes's not from Mycenae because Agememnon is from there.
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February 10, 2003, 19:58
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#20
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Local Time: 12:07
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do you realize that the word "Epirotes" is Greek?
guess not....
Are you saying that you consider Epirotes Greeks and not Illyrians with a Graecophone aristocracy?
Ionians, Dorians, Aeolians came after the Achaeans and the Pelasgians were there before them.
Modern Greeks include all of these heterogenous people in their heritage but refuse the same silly right to FYROMites. IMHO, they should share this history and not deny it to one another.
Hes's not from Mycenae because Agememnon is from there.
Myceneans is what archaeologists call all Achaeans.
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February 11, 2003, 04:35
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#21
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
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Quote:
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Originally posted by St Leo
Are you saying that you consider Epirotes Greeks and not Illyrians with a Graecophone aristocracy?
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how convenient these theories are....
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February 11, 2003, 04:47
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#22
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Emperor
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Umm...achaeans are anyone from Achaea, the Acheaean League for example was around for a long time.
Achilles was a Myrmidon.
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February 11, 2003, 05:47
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#23
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King
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He was Danish.
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