OBL's Latest Message

DanS · February 11, 2003, 21:08

Says only 18 people died at Tora Bora (6% of 300). I guess the Taliban fared a little worse in other battles.

Credible?

He's also much more specific in this letter. He advises Iraqis to build camouflaged trenches--even though we know that trenches were death traps in Gulf War I.

Good advice?

A transcript...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2003Feb11.html

Of course, we get a lot of the infidel blah.

DuncanK · February 11, 2003, 21:11

blah blah blah Kill the Great Satan blah blah blah

Sava · February 11, 2003, 21:18

Proclaiming Iraq to be his ally? Sounds like he wants war in Iraq.

Gangerolf · February 11, 2003, 21:25

Quote:

Proclaiming Iraq to be his ally? Sounds like he wants war in Iraq.

yep. kind of interesting how Powell didn't question the authencity of the tape

KrazyHorse · February 11, 2003, 21:29

Actually, he supposedly told the Iraqis to rise up and overthrow their false, impotent secular government on the tape too.

DanS · February 11, 2003, 21:40

Frogger: Actually, that's a transript of the tape that I linked.

Velociryx · February 11, 2003, 21:41

My bet: Our boys captures OBL in Afghanistan, shipped him to Hollywierd, where they convinced him to make a little speech.

Gives the US administration more ammunition to push PatAct2 through, and gives them their "missing link" which demonstrates an OBL-Iraq link (thus providing, theoretically, sufficient proof to get a UN go-ahead vote for the war).

-=Vel=-
(Wag the Dog)

KrazyHorse · February 11, 2003, 21:44

Didn't read it. Got that secondhand from somewhere (note "apparently").

At first I thought your link wasn't working but then I realised they want statistical info before they let you in. Back in a bit.

KrazyHorse · February 11, 2003, 21:46

First thing I found was:

Quote:

And it doesn't harm in these conditions the interest of Muslims to agree with those of the socialists in fighting against the crusaders, even though we believe the socialists are infidels. For the socialists and the rulers have lost their legitimacy a long time ago, and the socialists are infidels regardless of where they are, whether in Baghdad or in Aden (ph).

Where the the "socialists in Baghdad" are an obvious reference to the Ba'ath

monkspider · February 11, 2003, 21:50

camoflauged trenches might just be crazy enough to work actually.

Ned · February 11, 2003, 21:51

Frogger, but he concludes that an alliance with Saddam is justified. He references an alliance between Islam and the Persians against the Romans.

"And this fighting about to take place resembles the fight with the Romans earlier and the collusion of interest doesn't harm, for the Muslims' fight against the Romans was due to the collusion of the interests with the Persians. "

KrazyHorse · February 11, 2003, 21:52

Nope. Infrared and downwards radar would show them as bright as day.

Oerdin · February 11, 2003, 22:42

As I recall bull dozers work wonders for filling in trenches and as an added bonus you don't have to worry about burial details for all the Iraqis who refuse to come out of their trenches.

Sava · February 11, 2003, 23:24

Ned... Persians? Islam? Romans? Aren't they all like hundreds of years apart?

Kramerman · February 11, 2003, 23:26

Quote:

Originally posted by Gangerolf

yep. kind of interesting how Powell didn't question the authencity of the tape

Yes he did

DuncanK · February 11, 2003, 23:34

He called Saddam an infidel, but he called on the Iraqi people to fight the Americans.

Boris Godunov · February 11, 2003, 23:34

The State Dept. has made the idiotic assertion that the tape corraborates the unproven assertion that Saddam and Al Queda are in cahoots. Funny that in the tape, OBL calls Saddam an "infidel" and makes it clear he despises the "socialist" government in Iraq. I guess the State Dept. has selective hearing...

Grrr · February 11, 2003, 23:40

The State Department has very selective hearing.

The thing I find funny is that the voice on this tape seems so much different from the last in my recollection.

BTW Boris ... are you ever going to kill that santa hat?

Oerdin · February 11, 2003, 23:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
Ned... Persians? Islam? Romans? Aren't they all like hundreds of years apart?

He's refering to Byzantines as Romans.

Boris Godunov · February 11, 2003, 23:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Grrr
BTW Boris ... are you ever going to kill that santa hat?

ADD ANOTHER WEEK!

Oerdin · February 11, 2003, 23:46

Boris is secretly very proud of his Santa Hat and is looking for any excuse to continue showing it off.

Urban Ranger · February 12, 2003, 00:01

Amusing. Assuming the tape is authentic, it surprises nobody that bin Laden calls on a resistance to what seems like an inevitable US invasion.

DuncanK · February 12, 2003, 00:10

It probably had some secret messages to terrorist cells.

DanS · February 12, 2003, 00:20

It probably had some secret messages to terrorist cells.

He did mention Washington.

Jaakko · February 12, 2003, 06:56

aketay the ombbay on the ucktray and ivedray to shingtonway!

Urban Ranger · February 12, 2003, 06:59

You're a terrorist, Jaakko boy-o

Jaakko · February 12, 2003, 07:09

I ontday owknay atwhay you are alkingtay boutay!

Urban Ranger · February 12, 2003, 07:11

You missed an "a" - should be "boutaay"

Jaakko · February 12, 2003, 07:15

Curses! The code given to me is flawed!

JohnT · February 12, 2003, 11:50

He is pretty acute in his awareness that the Left in the West will be on his side, or at least, will not favor a war solution. But he has no respect for his allies, as shown in the following words:

"Muslims' doctrine and banner should be clear in fighting for the sake of God. He who fights to raise the word of God will fight for God's sake.
Under these circumstances, there will be no harm if the interests of Muslims converge with the interests of the socialists in the fight against the crusaders, despite our belief in the infidelity of socialists.
The jurisdiction of the socialists and those rulers has fallen a long time ago.
Socialists are infidels wherever they are, whether they are in Baghdad or Aden. "

In bold, he plainly asks for all Moslems to join hold their noses and join leagues with the anti-war "socialists" (i.e., Leftists) against the Crusaders (Rightists). But in the italicized sections, he openly re-affirms the Islamic hatred of Socialism/Communism, declaring the entire political ideology to be infidels, even if that ideology is supporting him in his temporal aims.

He obviously has no problem biting the hand that feeds him. He holds the Left in contempt, finding them weak, but is not above using them to further his own ends. He knows that the Right would likely wage war with fury and might and, oddly enough, OBL respects that - his words re: GWB did not show anywhere near the contempt he feels towards his socialist allies in the Western media.

He states his plans for using the Left against their own ends even more baldly in the passage that immediately follows the above, showing the Islamic world that there is precedent for siding with a lesser evil to defeat a greater one:

"The fighting, which is waging and which will be waged these days, is very much like the fighting of Muslims against the Byzantine in the past.
And the convergence of interests is not detrimental. The Muslims' fighting against the Byzantine converged with the interests of the Persians.
And this was not detrimental to the companions of the prophet. "

Given the long discussion regarding the Afghani holdout, he is especially concerned with high-tech weaponry, showing a near obssession towards the subject. But then, if I was subjected to 15 days of constant bombarment, I'd probably be a little obsessed about it too. I don't necessarily find the section regarding the weaponry to be all that puzzling: he wants to re-assure people that American weaponry isn't invincible and can be faced bravely and successfully.

I also note that there was no mention of anything that happened past October, 2001, though I could've easily missed something. Given the vagueness of his plan of action and the lack of specifics, it would not surprise me to find out that this tape was recorded quite a while ago. No mention of the UN resolution, France/Germany, and the terror attacks in Indonesia? No mention of the Shuttle, or stock market dives, or anything??? Hmmmmm.

So, I do think it was OBL, I just don't think the tape was made anytime recently.