Hut Finder v1.4 - Page 4

Scouse Gits · March 20, 2003, 08:25

Thanks, rah

SG[1]

C-F-G · March 21, 2003, 03:24

I'm using Win95

and HutFinder don't work - seems to need msvbvm60.dll

Any idea?
Hmm I remember a picture, where somebody explained it, but I don't find the link in the GL - maybe some help here?

DrSpike · March 21, 2003, 05:33

Just download the files you need and put them with all the other dlls in your windows directory.

Scouse Gits · March 21, 2003, 08:43

Sorry CFG - HutFinder is I believe untested until now on win95

SG[1]

TimTheEnchanter · March 21, 2003, 11:33

The scrolling is very nice indeed. A great thing just got better.

Carolus Rex · March 22, 2003, 16:59

I just downloaded it. A couple of questions from a computer non savant. The answers are probably in the thread somewhere, but loading the pages takes forever with a 56K modem on a Saturday night, so:

i) Which versions of civ does it run with?

ii) Where should I install the files?

iii) I read that there seems to be some problems depending on which OS you have. I use Windows 98, do I need one of the additional files (or was that only for older versions of Hutfinder)?

Thanks,

Carolus

SCG · March 22, 2003, 17:19

Decided to try the updated version - really like the scroll, seems just about right, leaving the initial square on the map at all times.

something to look into for future versions - large maps where you show both move and trade distances still looks funny

(works fine as long as you don't show both)

very nice work

SlowThinker · March 22, 2003, 18:36

SG, could the program find the seed out also from coordinates of known specials (if a hut is not available in the beginning)?

Scouse Gits · March 24, 2003, 03:43

SCG - I have seen the 'noise' before, but not the truncation - shall look further

ST - nope - too much ambiguity

SG[1]

SlowThinker · March 24, 2003, 15:30

Quote:

too much ambiguity

you could use a 'brutal force': to allow a user to input coordinates of squares with specials and after each input to check how many of 16 seed types match until only one seed type matches.

And about the way of the scrolling...

What about a compromise? I will allow you to retain the white border for the initial square and you will add another white border and coordinates for the square in the center of view. OK?

Scouse Gits · March 24, 2003, 17:01

ST - your generosity overwhelms me!

I shall have a look...

SG[1]

Elephant · March 25, 2003, 14:38

Tried to use HutFinder on Early Landing Comparison Game #2 last week; the Seed puts the specials in the right place but a few of them are wrong type. Interesting practical lesson on seeds. I tried your trick of adding 32 but have not found an exact match yet. HutFinder did identify two hidden specials which allowed early city placement to use them later...

Very useful, though. Many thanks. I now keep four windows open when playing: CIV2, NotePad, CIV2PLAN, and HutFinder. At the beginning of ELCG2 I also had a blank MapEditor open with the HF seed and painted in tiles as I explored. Since I learned to log beakers carefully I have dispensed with CIV2Beaker, and attempts to use M$Excel for Supply/Demand calculations slowed everything down and caused many lockups.

For a future version I could only wish for another Tab that kept a NotePad-like page open for my log, and another Tab that had stuff like Tech Paths(perhaps read from a text file?), Delivery Bonus Calculator, Terrain Chart, etc...

Hope you're not choking right now...

Scouse Gits · March 26, 2003, 07:46

Neat idea using Civ2Map as well as HF - try increments of 16 to find the match - I got it wrong in my last post

Your ideas are - interesting - and not impossible - I shall think on...

SG[1]

Elephant · March 26, 2003, 12:10

I was up in the mid hundreds when I gave up...

No rush on the suggestions- I just use extra NotePads...

SlowThinker · March 30, 2003, 15:48

SG,

I thought I will ruin your bussiness with HutFinder but I have only 1 download of the new Beaker&Hut Counter now

Why do you think increments of 16 are needed to find the match? I have supposed that the HutFinder gives a value of Seed mod 32, and since there is only 64 different Seeds the value from HF or the value increased by 32 gives an exact Seed...

Quote:

Originally posted by Elephant
I tried your trick of adding 32 but have not found an exact match yet.

Elephant,

I tried Early Landing Comparison Game #2 with the new Beakers Counter: HF gives seed 30, and seed 62 matches the seed perfectly...

rah · March 31, 2003, 11:46

One question SG. We have been discussing MP games using the hutfinder. The advantage of finding a hut earlier than others is growing. So we're thinking about having the first person that finds a hut announce it. The problem is that people don't want to announce the coordinates so everyone knows where they are.

Could you display the seed and make it be possible to be used for the base. This way someone finding a hut can just say, use seed 16 and everyone else can punch it in.

RAH

Makeo · March 31, 2003, 12:22

I'm getting this error message when i try and use this program.

"A required .DLL file, MSVBVM60.DLL, was not found"

Any idea what that means?

Scouse Gits · April 2, 2003, 09:35

rah --
once a hut has been found (by anyone) they can use HF to determine the location of the nearest hut to an arbitrary point, say (100, 100) and announce that to all players - thus exposing nothing about their location
ST --
If I have undertood you - i disagree with you
Makeo --
New one on me - what OS are you using?

SG[1]

rah · April 2, 2003, 10:53

Didn't think about doing it that way, but it should work.
Thanks.

RAH

MrWhereItsAt · April 2, 2003, 10:57

/me was looking for Civ2 strats to apply to the Democracy game, found this interesting lloking thread and went in

/me then got thoroughyl confused again

For the uninitiated (in the Civ2 forums here, not in Civ2!), what is all this that is being spoken of? Seeds, increments of 16, whatever this file does?

Elephant · April 2, 2003, 12:25

If you start a blank map in MapEditor and then hit the letter "S" up comes a box that asks for Resource Seed. When you change it to anything above 1, the pattern of Specials (Whale and Fish) changes. There are repeating patterns that seem to follow in sets of 16, but given a few locations of specials in a random map you are playing you can often find a pattern that matches your layout but has specials of the wrong type. This means you have the right "base seed", but need to add increments of 16 until you get the right types in the right places.

Have you used MapEditor before? Have you noticed that when you "draw" a land tile on top of an ocean Special, it is also a Special of a particular (not random) type, unless it is grass? So the ocean patterns you see playing with a blank map also hold for land tiles, except for grass. That is what we meant by Hidden Specials, and that is why finding the right seed is important.

The other thing that has been discovered is that there is a mathematical relationship between Specials and Huts, also based on the Seed. In MapEditor, draw a large continent all of plains and you will see what we mean. Once you have found the first Hut, you can use the formula to find other huts as well. The utility called HutFinder just takes the X,Y coordinates of the first hut you find and generates a list of the nearest hut locations. Of course, on a random map some of these will fall on ocean tiles, so they will be missing. HutFinder also shows you the pattern of Specials based on a "base seed"; no guarantee at this point they are the right type.

All of this is info that has been documented and used by other players; HutFinder just makes it accessible in one package as a secondary window. Plus it has a list of OEDO years for those of us who are forgetful in our dotage (LaFayette?). If only it had a tickler to remind us just before we hit ENTER...

La Fayette · April 2, 2003, 12:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Elephant
Plus it has a list of OEDO years for those of us who are forgetful in our dotage (LaFayette?).

I am very forgetful indeed

... but the list of oedo years (at deity level) is in the back of my mind once and for all

SlowThinker · April 2, 2003, 17:50

Quote:

Originally posted by SG[1]
ST --
If I have undertood you - i disagree with you

SG, this is how I understand the seed stuff (but I am not sure if I am right):

Every map has a real 'seed number' (shortly seed).
(An example: seed=290.) This number is stored in the .sav or .mp file.

There is only 64 different seeds, and so only seed mod 64 is important. Seed 34, 98 (=34+64), 162 (=34+2*64)... 290 (=34+4*64) are equal, i.e. positions of huts and specials and types of specials are equal.
(Our example (290) has 290 mod 64 = 34 and so is equal to seed 34.)

There is only 32 different seeds in aspect of positions of huts. Therefore seeds 2, 34, 66, ... 290 have equal positions of huts.
(Our example (290) has 290 mod 32 = 2 and so its hut layout is equal to seed 2.)

I have supposed that HutFinder shows seed mod 32, i.e. 2 for our example (290). From the knowledge of this value we can reason out that the real seed is 2 or 34 or 66 or... But all seeds after 64 are duplicates of 2 or 34, and so we can choose the real map seed among 2 and 34.

Scouse Gits · April 4, 2003, 18:10

OK - I give in - I believe that you are correct - my initial test was on a water world (no huts) and I had not realized that the huts shifted with a mod 16 change so it looks as if there are only two seeds that need consideration the one given by HF and that + 32 ...

Good catch

SG[1]

Ming · April 5, 2003, 04:54

Thanks... just downloaded the new versions this evening. I love the scrolling feature.

Scouse Gits · November 14, 2003, 07:59

*bump*
not (really) self aggrandizing - but the last HutFinder thread bumped was not the most recent - this one...

Stu

rah · November 14, 2003, 12:46

But it's such a nice tool, we'll cut you some slack.
(especially the rah button)

Ljube · November 14, 2003, 13:32

So you are using it in our MP games?

Shame on you!

Now I know why I couldn't find a single hut while Ferret warriors ventured far away from their domain.

rah · November 14, 2003, 14:39

Hmmm, never denied using it.
A quick look at the RAH rules thread..........
it specifically states that it is allowed.

So feeling no shame here. (and we used to use hut maps prior, so for huts, it really makes no difference except it's a bit faster now.)

And Ferret warriors always venture as far away as possible until killed by barbs freed from huts, or killed by slimey human controlled civs.